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Post by The OC on May 1, 2023 16:22:31 GMT
I think retirement is definitely a possibility for both PB and DK. You can tell from all of the players' reactions at the end of this one that they felt this was a "last run" for those guys, whether Bergie's actually said so or not. With the loss, I think there is a good chance he wants to come back one more time. But it will depend on health. A herniated disk is no joke. He does have an unexpectedly long summer ahead, so I think if he feels he can get healed up and rested he may come back for one more shot. He's still playing at a high level.
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Post by moognoates on May 1, 2023 17:48:51 GMT
I think the sad thing this morning, is the notion that the Bruin core of this era (Bergeron, Chara, Rask, Krejci, Marchand, McAvoy) could truthfully be considered underachievers. One lonely Cup in 2011 for a core that will have multiple Hall of Famers and jerseys hung in the rafters. Since 2000: The Elias-Rafalski led Devils have 2 Cups The Datsyuk-Lidstrom led Red Wings have 2 Cups The Kopitar-Doughty led Kings have 2 Cups The Crosby-Malkin led Penguins have 3 Cups The Toews-Kane led Blackhawks have 3 Cups The Stamkos-Hedman led Bolts have 2 Cups We could certainly argue that the Bruins have had one of the greatest core groups in the past 25 years, but...the trophies didn't really come along. Unfortunately, this group has made a habit of losing to lesser opponents in the playoffs. unfortunately yes. They've had the greatest core for the longest too, which even casts a poorer light. Bergeron, Marchand, DK were achieving in 23 as they were in 2010. The sad thing is this core has been a salary cap dream for years. They should have been setup for multiple cups like Chicago and Pitt. Donny did everything he possibly could and built what I thought was a playoff roster. This is all on the players and coach. But mostly the players. |
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Post by The OC on May 1, 2023 17:53:06 GMT
unfortunately yes. They've had the greatest core for the longest too, which even casts a poorer light. Bergeron, Marchand, DK were achieving in 23 as they were in 2010. The sad thing is this core has been a salary cap dream for years. They should have been setup for multiple cups like Chicago and Pitt. Donny did everything he possibly could and built what I thought was a playoff roster. This is all on the players and coach. But mostly the players. The roster can be great, the coach smart and the players try hard and you still lose. It's sport. |
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Post by sandogbrewin on May 1, 2023 22:09:57 GMT
Patrice should retire. His body has gone through too much.
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Post by stevegm on May 2, 2023 0:42:23 GMT
may want to consider this folks. who holds the record, for most game 7 assists in NHL history? bump |
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Post by shuper on May 2, 2023 1:52:17 GMT
Patrice should retire. His body has gone through too much. Does a World Cup in 2024 change his mind. One more run of playoffs and international hockey? |
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Post by sandogbrewin on May 2, 2023 1:58:25 GMT
Patrice should retire. His body has gone through too much. Does a World Cup in 2024 change his mind. One more run of playoffs and international hockey? How many more punctured lungs, herniated disks or separated shoulders for another trophy 🏆 ? Has a WC, was on the greatest WJC team ever, has a cup and the NHL should rename the Selke after him. |
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Post by shuper on May 2, 2023 2:05:18 GMT
Does a World Cup in 2024 change his mind. One more run of playoffs and international hockey? How many more punctured lungs, herniated disks or separated shoulders for another trophy 🏆 ? Has a WC, was on the greatest WJC team ever, has a cup and the NHL should rename the Selke after him. Agree on Selke. And yup. He has it all. And I sure hope he considers another run. He’s winning another Selke. He’s still an elite player. Yup I’m being greedy |
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Post by shuper on May 2, 2023 2:06:26 GMT
He played 78 gms. One more run.
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Post by The OC on May 2, 2023 3:54:09 GMT
Bergeron confirmed he has a herniated disk. Does not need surgery. Undecided on future, will let it settle for a few days and talk with his family. Not happy how things ended.
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Post by shuper on May 2, 2023 4:00:00 GMT
Bergeron confirmed he has a herniated disk. Does not need surgery. Undecided on future, will let it settle for a few days and talk with his family. Not happy how things ended. He’s not done. 78 gms. No surgery (rest). A desire not to end that way. I think he’s pissed and returns on a peanut contract. |
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Post by moognoates on May 2, 2023 10:06:07 GMT
The sad thing is this core has been a salary cap dream for years. They should have been setup for multiple cups like Chicago and Pitt. Donny did everything he possibly could and built what I thought was a playoff roster. This is all on the players and coach. But mostly the players. The roster can be great, the coach smart and the players try hard and you still lose. It's sport. It's the pattern with them and the inability to seal the deal. When they lose there has always been a reason: not enough 5 in 5 scoring, not physical enough, the 4th line was outplayed by the other teams 4th line. This year, it felt like every single angle was covered. They were close to a perfect team. The Stanley cup playoffs are too difficult and unpredictable to be able to say it's cup or bust but this team should have been in the ECF at worst. That and other then Toronto the path to the Stanley cup was looking less daunting than previously thought. In the end its a major failure by the team and like I said on another thread, it creates a black eye on this core. If what we are hearing about a Linus injury is true, I am even more pissed and lay more blame on the coach. |
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Post by RichHillOntario on May 3, 2023 0:50:15 GMT
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Post by Fletcher on May 3, 2023 3:40:12 GMT
Patrice should retire. His body has gone through too much. Does a World Cup in 2024 change his mind. One more run of playoffs and international hockey? No way. I mean, I can't speak for him, but I can't imagine that a World Cup is any motivation to keep playing for him. Does anyone really care about the World Cup? |
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Post by thanx4memORRies on May 3, 2023 12:34:18 GMT
Does a World Cup in 2024 change his mind. One more run of playoffs and international hockey? No way. I mean, I can't speak for him, but I can't imagine that a World Cup is any motivation to keep playing for him. Does anyone really care about the World Cup? I think many on here are willing Bergy to return but I don’t see it…. But I said the same thing last year…. |
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Post by mdsizzle on May 11, 2023 0:56:15 GMT
Very sad to say, but it's time for him to step down. Just look at the W L record when he played and when he didn't. That's enough for me.
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Post by shuper on May 11, 2023 0:59:34 GMT
Very sad to say, but it's time for him to step down. Just look at the W L record when he played and when he didn't. That's enough for me. He’s gonna win the Selke. Played a lot of gms. One more year |
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Post by mdsizzle on May 11, 2023 10:21:12 GMT
Very sad to say, but it's time for him to step down. Just look at the W L record when he played and when he didn't. That's enough for me. He’s gonna win the Selke. Played a lot of gms. One more year That is the ONE trophy that will not make me gag this year if won by a Bruin. The 2023 vezina trophy should accepted by Swayman... Sorry Linus doesn't show up for anything after the end of regular season. |
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Post by stevegm on May 11, 2023 12:28:35 GMT
Very sad to say, but it's time for him to step down. Just look at the W L record when he played and when he didn't. That's enough for me. I don't know what the Bruins won/lost was, when he played. Doubt you do either. Everyone knows what it was in a 3 game universe. Most also know that's a completely insane window in which to base anything. The Bruins lost quite regularly with Bobby Orr..and they won quite regularly with him too. I could easily pick a 3 game window that makes as much sense as the above. Do you think Austin Matthews should retire? Statistically, Bergeron was a better player in 2023, than he was in 2010/11. He scored 27 goals, is one of the best faceoff men in the entire industry, and is a finalist for a coveted league wide, individual award. His cap hit was 3.5. Every team in the league would kill for the opportunity to sign him again. Every single one. I know your frustrated sizz, but stop doubling down on this nonsense. |
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Post by bookboy007 on May 11, 2023 16:52:37 GMT
I think the sad thing this morning, is the notion that the Bruin core of this era (Bergeron, Chara, Rask, Krejci, Marchand, McAvoy) could truthfully be considered underachievers. One lonely Cup in 2011 for a core that will have multiple Hall of Famers and jerseys hung in the rafters. Since 2000: The Elias-Rafalski led Devils have 2 Cups The Datsyuk-Lidstrom led Red Wings have 2 Cups The Kopitar-Doughty led Kings have 2 Cups The Crosby-Malkin led Penguins have 3 Cups The Toews-Kane led Blackhawks have 3 Cups The Stamkos-Hedman led Bolts have 2 Cups We could certainly argue that the Bruins have had one of the greatest core groups in the past 25 years, but...the trophies didn't really come along. Unfortunately, this group has made a habit of losing to lesser opponents in the playoffs. Most really good teams have that habit unless they have a really short window - meaning a window too short to be both good enough to qualify and bad enough to prove the point. Most of those teams went through a lot of years where they lost to inferior teams or came up small. The year after Detroit won their first cup post-2000, they got swept by the Ducks, a team 15 points below them in the standings. 2013 should have been a rematch of 2011, but Chicago wet the bed and got bounced in round one in 2011. The Stamkos-Hedman-Vagisil Bolts didn't get to their three straight Finals and two wins on a straight road. If Crosby had a kid when they won that first Cup, he'd have been almost old enough to be drafted by the time they won the next one. Steve's framing around roster construction vs. player incontinence is part of this. To me, "roster construction" is a euphemism for "on paper." I agree that they did everything they could to be injury proof, deep, diverse in terms of the ways they could win...and in the end, they looked like less than the sum of the parts on paper. But they were what they were on the ice. And you can look at that as an indictment of some legendary Bruins. Bergeron's won Gold/Championships at every level. But he's now 1 for 3 in the Finals, and has twice gotten bounced in disappointing fashion as a President's Trophy winner. Both of those things are true. They're oil and water. They don't mix, meaning the achievements aren't really diminished by the disappointments. But they're both there. For the team as a whole, I can look at this year as an amazing run and a really incomparable group in terms of the results being so much more than the sum in the regular season. And then they played really badly for two weeks at the wrong time and went home. It doesn't "mean". It just is, and it sucks. In recent years, though, I don't know that I feel they've lost to an inferior opponent. Carolina was very, very good last year. The Bolts have been excellent. The Islanders...OK. They probably should have beaten the Islanders. But for the current group, I think there's a lot to prove and especially if they finally have to prove it without the Selke King, DK, and with an aging Marchand. Take Pastrnak. In the regular season, he's a career 1.04 points/game player. In the playoffs, 1.03. Pretty close, right? Except in the regular season, he scores two points at even strength for every one on the powerplay. In the playoffs, he's much more dependent on his PP looks - 43 ES points to 36 on the PP. And that is partly why he's +1 for every 5 games of regular season play vs. +1 for every 38.5 games played in the playoffs. And he's been worse the last two seasons, scoring .785 points/game over the last two years, with 6 PP points and only 5 ES points in 14 games. That pattern was part of what hurt them in 2019 when they couldn't score against the Blues at even strength, and it has hurt them against the Bolts and Canes prior to this loss to the Panthers. Then there's McAvoy. No goals the last two years in the playoffs. A combined -1 in 13 games. He was only +2 despite being better than a point/game player in the playoffs three years ago, and he got absolutely schooled (-6) the year before that. Hard to make a deep run when your #1D is just OK. Neither Swayman nor Ullmark has shown that playoff mentality in net. Tuukka could be all over the board mentally, but you saw him in dominant form so you knew he could do it when it mattered. DeBrusk hasn't taken the next step to build on his game winner against Toronto where he flew at the net with purpose in game 7. He tied Bertuzzi in ES points in the playoffs this year and was only -1 on a team where not many players were in the +. Zacha had a great start to the playoffs, and has very little experience. Can he continue to grow as a playoff player? Coyle, in his first playoffs in Boston, looked like a great playoff guy. The big, skilled C who isn't really a regular season scoring leader type who scores big goals in the playoffs - the 90s and 2000s were littered with those guys. Nope. Ghost once the roster shenanigans started. Lindholm has looked sooooo gooood in the regular season but after injury last year and zeroes this year, he needs to prove he can elevate his game and not shrink it. None of these guys has a gold medal, WHC gold, World Cup gold, WJHC MVP etc. They have to start building the resume of winners again. |
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Post by bookboy007 on May 11, 2023 16:59:13 GMT
I think retirement is definitely a possibility for both PB and DK. You can tell from all of the players' reactions at the end of this one that they felt this was a "last run" for those guys, whether Bergie's actually said so or not. With the loss, I think there is a good chance he wants to come back one more time. But it will depend on health. A herniated disk is no joke. He does have an unexpectedly long summer ahead, so I think if he feels he can get healed up and rested he may come back for one more shot. He's still playing at a high level. Honestly, I think people are putting too much emphasis on what they saw in the hours after a soul-crushing defeat - a minute from escaping the series then a tying and winning goal in less time than it takes nite to tie his shoes. Like you said earlier, Bergeron did the hugs and farewell tour last year, too. I do think this year is different but mostly because they saw what we saw and what we see ahead. They loaded up. This was supposed to be a chance to ride out on a duck boat into retirement. Nope. The task of trying to win next year, or at any time before they stop inviting 37 and 46 to make the decision themselves, is much harder next year. There was a mountain of high hopes from Christmas on. There's a mountain of uncertainty now with the Cap, the lack of a prospect pool, and very little flexibility to adjust the team. If he came back for one more shot at the Cup last year, this year he'll be coming back for a long shot at the Cup but mostly to get the taste of consecutive first round losses out of his mouth. |
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Post by dannycater on May 31, 2023 13:57:41 GMT
I guess call me Ishmael, but I'd still rather see 37/46 both come back. Why? They both still have it. Both were injured, minutes could be controlled more and rests in the reg. season would help. But with that said, both probably will retire. I would be surprised to see either come back. Love them both, go B's!
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Post by chappy28 on May 31, 2023 17:57:11 GMT
I guess call me Ishmael, but I'd still rather see 37/46 both come back. Why? They both still have it. Both were injured, minutes could be controlled more and rests in the reg. season would help. But with that said, both probably will retire. I would be surprised to see either come back. Love them both, go B's! Hard to disagree given just how dominant we were this past season. VERY unlucky to have those two get injured when they did after remaining relatively healthy all season. I'd imagine if they don't need surgery they've got to at least kind of want another shot at redemption. I think there's something to be said for team's not getting it done the year that they "should" win, but then coming back strong the next year and finishing the job. Panthers were a top team last year, and then all but written off this season and now look at them. B's loss in 2010 was epic, but fueled the fire for 2011, and that team was as much the team of destiny as Florida has been this season. Another point to this argument is that the team isn't going to get anybody better for less money than these two guys on hometown discounts. Combine that with the fact that Sweeney and Neely are on the record that we are not going to go the route of Chicago and go full rebuild, and it's likely that the best team we can possibly put together next year includes one if not both of these guys on the roster. Sorry, but I still don't want to see Coyle in a second line role, even though he did look pretty good in the beginning of round 1. So we stated we want to field the most competitive team possible, we still don't have proven top 6 centers, and we have potentially two guys who produce at a top six level that may come back for a steep home town discount. Oh ya, and one is your captain, Selke winner, and future HOF'er. If we are going to drag this thing out, I don't see any better options. |
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Post by dannycater on May 31, 2023 18:18:28 GMT
I guess call me Ishmael, but I'd still rather see 37/46 both come back. Why? They both still have it. Both were injured, minutes could be controlled more and rests in the reg. season would help. But with that said, both probably will retire. I would be surprised to see either come back. Love them both, go B's! Hard to disagree given just how dominant we were this past season. VERY unlucky to have those two get injured when they did after remaining relatively healthy all season. I'd imagine if they don't need surgery they've got to at least kind of want another shot at redemption. I think there's something to be said for team's not getting it done the year that they "should" win, but then coming back strong the next year and finishing the job. Panthers were a top team last year, and then all but written off this season and now look at them. B's loss in 2010 was epic, but fueled the fire for 2011, and that team was as much the team of destiny as Florida has been this season. Another point to this argument is that the team isn't going to get anybody better for less money than these two guys on hometown discounts. Combine that with the fact that Sweeney and Neely are on the record that we are not going to go the route of Chicago and go full rebuild, and it's likely that the best team we can possibly put together next year includes one if not both of these guys on the roster. Sorry, but I still don't want to see Coyle in a second line role, even though he did look pretty good in the beginning of round 1. So we stated we want to field the most competitive team possible, we still don't have proven top 6 centers, and we have potentially two guys who produce at a top six level that may come back for a steep home town discount. Oh ya, and one is your captain, Selke winner, and future HOF'er. If we are going to drag this thing out, I don't see any better options. chaps, exactly about bang for the buck in the Cap era. These 2 guys simply chose team over individual when it comes to salary. Hard to find nowadays in professional sports. |
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Post by thanx4memORRies on May 31, 2023 18:29:04 GMT
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