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Post by badhabitude on Feb 28, 2022 23:49:06 GMT
It's a lot more complicated than what we're being fed. War is generally bullshit, because what triggers it, is never about integrity or truth, or some pursuit of righteousness...it's political bullshit. Putin believes some of his predecessors were limpdik, and without vision. He believes he's liberated parts of the Ukraine(Lubansk and Donetsk) in their pursuit of sovereignty, so he's been their savior. He see's Russians and Ukranians as "one people, occupying the same cultural and historical space". To him, modern Ukraine is solely the result of the Soviet Union. Crimea? He believes that was stupidly given away by Stalin in 1954. He feels the historically recent fall of the USSR..all of this stuff to be driven by the west, simply to weaken their ability to defend themselves(everyone conveniently feels their army is only to defend, never conquer). Putin sees Ukraine as simply a "corrupt puppet of the United States.' Not unlike the middle east, this geography has been very problematic since the end of WW2. It's hard to get a read on what the majority are thinking. What I do know, is that depending on where you're at, and who you are...this thing can and is, interpreted many different ways. And it's all politics. When one looks at all the border issues, going back to about 1917, one thing is obvious to me. you're going to have a lot of unrest, and little political stability. Especially, when you feel your way of life, is being swallowed up by someone elses. someone whose main goal, in your opinion.... is to annihilate you. Our system doesn't give anyone so much power. Even with that huge lever, we have enough trouble keeping them somewhat in line. It's tough. IMO, what this really comes down to is China. If China actually speaks up in defence...this could be trouble. If not, Putin is gonna have to figure how to get out of this without looking too stupid. hope your friends and family are gonna come out of this ok bad Putin is trying to inflate a country that is falling from a substantial global influential country, outside of resources. I am hoping for "jawboning" and stringent economic sanctions will influence Putin's future actions. His diatribes about what was "Russia" indicates further mental instability. Yet, the real danger is China. They have their eye on Taiwan. Chinese hegemony is already evident economically from Asia to Africa. Japan is doing due diligence as a result. China has already had conversations with Putin prior to the invasion of the Ukraine . The United States and its allies do not have a NATO in Asia. It is a potential two headed monster I personally fear. Not my words, but my old college room mate who's been living in Japan/Thailand for the past 30 years... Taiwan is in better shape. Easier to defend. Taiwan is also getting stronger assistance from the US and is in the same island chain of Japan which has a very powerful economic and existential interest to keep Taiwan free and itself surrounded by stable democracies like Taiwan and South Korea, and then the Philippines not too far from Taiwan. Many in east Asia are glad that many things are against an invasion of Taiwan. Xi tends to conquer economically and avoid fanfare and military takeover as much as possible. Taiwan can only be a massive military operation which would definitely do nothing but damage to China's economy and world standing. I've watched some interesting and reassuring youtube videos showing the military scenario of a Taiwan invasion. Taiwan only has a few sand beaches where Chinese troops could land. The rest is rocky like the coast of Maine. That makes it even easier to defend and Taiwan has already been long preparing for an invasion. Taiwan is also across the strait from Guangzhou which is one of the largest population and manufacturing centers of China. If Taiwan launched a missile counterstrike, it would devastate China just by devastating that one area. The Strait of Taiwan is also deep and treacherous water with powerful storms which would affect any military operation. It is perfect for subs to hide and to conduct operations to mine the strait between Taiwan and China. Taiwan of course has the other side of the island to access the sea and supplies and support from the US and Japan. Taiwanese will also fight for their country. China is huge but its military has no experience in any major conflict. On top of that, the people of China have absolutely no interest in fighting Taiwan. They love China but want only a comfortable life and to avoid the mid 20th century devastation to their own country from WWII. China is getting stronger quickly, but Taiwan is also getting strong enough to make any attack on it very very costly. |
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Post by NAS on Mar 1, 2022 11:15:32 GMT
I don't think it's that extreme, BHab. Russian citizens (which is what our hockey players are) are not the Russian government. Question: When would it become that extreme for you? If he invades an additional country? What's your tipping pint? They are already putting sanctions on the oligarchs, the ones making a lot of money and sending it home to mother Russia, they are not the Russian government, nor are the Russian airlines currently banned from a ton of airspace. So I don't think that statement is really for me, I think its a question for the existing sanctions. Also, wealthy Russians close to Putin could certainly influence him, after all he call meetings with them, at least twice that I know of. The idea of punishing private people for the actions of the government is more toward the Japanese camps of WW2 after the misunderstood shelling of Los Angeles. What good would booting Vasili Podkolzin from the game do? Does it also extend to the minor leagues? Does removing Charlotte Checkers Grigory Denisenko change Putin's mind or help Ukraine's plight?
I don't see any point where this is reasonable.
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Post by badhabitude on Mar 1, 2022 14:02:59 GMT
Question: When would it become that extreme for you? If he invades an additional country? What's your tipping pint? They are already putting sanctions on the oligarchs, the ones making a lot of money and sending it home to mother Russia, they are not the Russian government, nor are the Russian airlines currently banned from a ton of airspace. So I don't think that statement is really for me, I think its a question for the existing sanctions. Also, wealthy Russians close to Putin could certainly influence him, after all he call meetings with them, at least twice that I know of. The idea of punishing private people for the actions of the government is more toward the Japanese camps of WW2 after the misunderstood shelling of Los Angeles. What good would booting Vasili Podkolzin from the game do? Does it also extend to the minor leagues? Does removing Charlotte Checkers Grigory Denisenko change Putin's mind or help Ukraine's plight?
I don't see any point where this is reasonable.
So you disagree with the current sanctions against the oligarchs? I see it as another weapon of war, keeping their income out of Russia hurts Russia's economy and put more pressure on Putin to quit. Also, they are targeting Putin specifically. Everyone has said his money is certainly not in his own name, but has several alias accounts. It wouldn't surprise me if Putin had some number of shadow accounts using the accounts of people making money outside of Russia. The sanctions are having an effect it seems to me. Now the morality of it is the morality of was. Is it fair to penalize Russian citizens? No, but it's "more unfair" to kill innocent civilians so its the lesser of 2 evils. I don't have time to look this up, but I recall some investigative new show that was exposing the Russian mafia, I recall (fact checks are needed) that they alleged there were ties to the Russian government. And the bit about it that attracted my attention were that they were extorting hockey players. I recall them interviewing Pavel Bure who denied everything. The extortion money was called "krysha" a Russian word for roof, in order to stay safe you had to pay to stay under the roof or suffer the elements is how the analogy went. Oh I couldn't resist and looked it up, but no time to read it myself, www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/hockey/mafia/csis.htmlSo am I clamoring for banning Russians from the NHL? Not necessarily, I think it would help the Bruins tho as there isn't a Russian in the current system as far as I know. If the powers that be deem it a worthwhile weapon against the Russians I would not oppose it. |
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Post by NAS on Mar 1, 2022 23:43:32 GMT
The idea of punishing private people for the actions of the government is more toward the Japanese camps of WW2 after the misunderstood shelling of Los Angeles. What good would booting Vasili Podkolzin from the game do? Does it also extend to the minor leagues? Does removing Charlotte Checkers Grigory Denisenko change Putin's mind or help Ukraine's plight?
I don't see any point where this is reasonable.
So you disagree with the current sanctions against the oligarchs? I see it as another weapon of war, keeping their income out of Russia hurts Russia's economy and put more pressure on Putin to quit. Also, they are targeting Putin specifically. Everyone has said his money is certainly not in his own name, but has several alias accounts. It wouldn't surprise me if Putin had some number of shadow accounts using the accounts of people making money outside of Russia. The sanctions are having an effect it seems to me. Now the morality of it is the morality of was. Is it fair to penalize Russian citizens? No, but it's "more unfair" to kill innocent civilians so its the lesser of 2 evils. I don't have time to look this up, but I recall some investigative new show that was exposing the Russian mafia, I recall (fact checks are needed) that they alleged there were ties to the Russian government. And the bit about it that attracted my attention were that they were extorting hockey players. I recall them interviewing Pavel Bure who denied everything. The extortion money was called "krysha" a Russian word for roof, in order to stay safe you had to pay to stay under the roof or suffer the elements is how the analogy went. Oh I couldn't resist and looked it up, but no time to read it myself, www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/hockey/mafia/csis.htmlSo am I clamoring for banning Russians from the NHL? Not necessarily, I think it would help the Bruins tho as there isn't a Russian in the current system as far as I know. If the powers that be deem it a worthwhile weapon against the Russians I would not oppose it.
The oligarchs are a bit more wealthy and influential.
The idea of punishing the players of the NHL due to a war they didn't start is off center.
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Post by badhabitude on Mar 2, 2022 0:02:38 GMT
So you disagree with the current sanctions against the oligarchs? I see it as another weapon of war, keeping their income out of Russia hurts Russia's economy and put more pressure on Putin to quit. Also, they are targeting Putin specifically. Everyone has said his money is certainly not in his own name, but has several alias accounts. It wouldn't surprise me if Putin had some number of shadow accounts using the accounts of people making money outside of Russia. The sanctions are having an effect it seems to me. Now the morality of it is the morality of was. Is it fair to penalize Russian citizens? No, but it's "more unfair" to kill innocent civilians so its the lesser of 2 evils. I don't have time to look this up, but I recall some investigative new show that was exposing the Russian mafia, I recall (fact checks are needed) that they alleged there were ties to the Russian government. And the bit about it that attracted my attention were that they were extorting hockey players. I recall them interviewing Pavel Bure who denied everything. The extortion money was called "krysha" a Russian word for roof, in order to stay safe you had to pay to stay under the roof or suffer the elements is how the analogy went. Oh I couldn't resist and looked it up, but no time to read it myself, www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/hockey/mafia/csis.htmlSo am I clamoring for banning Russians from the NHL? Not necessarily, I think it would help the Bruins tho as there isn't a Russian in the current system as far as I know. If the powers that be deem it a worthwhile weapon against the Russians I would not oppose it.
The oligarchs are a bit more wealthy and influential.
The idea of punishing the players of the NHL due to a war they didn't start is off center.
Very well, I don't know what your net worth and amount of influence has to be to be labeled an oligarch. If it hurts the Putin dictatorship, I would probably be for it short of anything that would hurt us worse. Again I ask the question and I haven't see this in the media anywhere - Putin has threatened nukes, but who/where would he target? I would think the Ukraine is the "safest" in regard to this question because I would think you wouldn't want to destroy the thing you're trying to steal. |
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Post by NAS on Mar 2, 2022 12:42:26 GMT
The oligarchs are a bit more wealthy and influential.
The idea of punishing the players of the NHL due to a war they didn't start is off center.
Very well, I don't know what your net worth and amount of influence has to be to be labeled an oligarch. If it hurts the Putin dictatorship, I would probably be for it short of anything that would hurt us worse. Again I ask the question and I haven't see this in the media anywhere - Putin has threatened nukes, but who/where would he target? I would think the Ukraine is the "safest" in regard to this question because I would think you wouldn't want to destroy the thing you're trying to steal.
They've been talking about nuclear weapons since the first one was created. It makes no sense. Everyone knows the worldwide destruction it would cause. No one is launching nuclear weapons. That's media scaring you into reading the article.
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Post by badhabitude on Mar 2, 2022 13:39:59 GMT
Very well, I don't know what your net worth and amount of influence has to be to be labeled an oligarch. If it hurts the Putin dictatorship, I would probably be for it short of anything that would hurt us worse. Again I ask the question and I haven't see this in the media anywhere - Putin has threatened nukes, but who/where would he target? I would think the Ukraine is the "safest" in regard to this question because I would think you wouldn't want to destroy the thing you're trying to steal.
They've been talking about nuclear weapons since the first one was created. It makes no sense. Everyone knows the worldwide destruction it would cause. No one is launching nuclear weapons. That's media scaring you into reading the article.
Putin made the nuclear threat, not the media. |
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Post by NAS on Mar 3, 2022 1:10:59 GMT
They've been talking about nuclear weapons since the first one was created. It makes no sense. Everyone knows the worldwide destruction it would cause. No one is launching nuclear weapons. That's media scaring you into reading the article.
Putin made the nuclear threat, not the media. Are you referring to Russia putting "nuclear deterrent" on high alert? |
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Post by badhabitude on Mar 3, 2022 1:33:38 GMT
Putin made the nuclear threat, not the media. Are you referring to Russia putting "nuclear deterrent" on high alert? Yes |
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Post by NAS on Mar 3, 2022 12:41:05 GMT
Are you referring to Russia putting "nuclear deterrent" on high alert? Yes That's just flexing muscles.
No one is launching nukes.
(If I'm wrong, we won't be able to discuss it.)
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Post by badhabitude on Mar 3, 2022 21:40:24 GMT
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Post by Fletcher on Mar 3, 2022 22:06:25 GMT
I'm kinda torn on this. I agree with NAS that punishing individuals, on the basis of their country of origin, isn't a very fair or reasonable concept. I don't really think we should go down that road, unless things escalate to the point that some response is forced upon us. We shouldn't forget that an important distinction between us and Russia is that over here you really can't be persecuted for things like background, ethnicity, opinion, etc.
With that said, I not feeling very welcoming personally towards Russians who come to North America to get rich, while at the same time supporting a regime back home that violates our basic human values, freedoms, and decency. In 2014, Ovechkin proudly wore a t-shirt around their locker room that said "Crimea is Ours". I don't really have a problem with the NHL or the Caps owner telling him that shit isn't gonna fly if he wants to keep taking their pay checks over here.
There is some hypocrisy here when Russian players are gleefully choosing to live and work in the capitalistic democracies of America and Canada, and then support (financially, philosophically) a regime back home that is working to destroy democracies in other parts of the world. Perhaps, if they favor their style of governance, they should walk the walk and play over there. Then they can worry less about American decadence, and more about whether the team plane will get off the ground or not...
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Post by bookboy007 on Mar 3, 2022 22:54:42 GMT
That's just flexing muscles.
No one is launching nukes.
(If I'm wrong, we won't be able to discuss it.)
Like wrestling grizzlies for pink slips. |
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Post by bookboy007 on Mar 3, 2022 23:14:34 GMT
I'm kinda torn on this. I agree with NAS that punishing individuals, on the basis of their country of origin, isn't a very fair or reasonable concept. I don't really think we should go down that road, unless things escalate to the point that some response is forced upon us. We shouldn't forget that an important distinction between us and Russia is that over here you really can't be persecuted for things like background, ethnicity, opinion, etc. With that said, I not feeling very welcoming personally towards Russians who come to North America to get rich, while at the same time supporting a regime back home that violates our basic human values, freedoms, and decency. In 2014, Ovechkin proudly wore a t-shirt around their locker room that said "Crimea is Ours". I don't really have a problem with the NHL or the Caps owner telling him that shit isn't gonna fly if he wants to keep taking their pay checks over here. There is some hypocrisy here when Russian players are gleefully choosing to live and work in the capitalistic democracies of America and Canada, and then support (financially, philosophically) a regime back home that is working to destroy democracies in other parts of the world. Perhaps, if they favor their style of governance, they should walk the walk and play over there. Then they can worry less about American decadence, and more about whether the team plane will get off the ground or not... I guess the chain can go for as many links you want. Fine Ted Leonsis. That guy has made a giant ass bag of cash from employing Ovechkin. Punish the employee or the employer who's making money off of a guy who supports a dictatorship in his home country? In some ways, I think about it in the same vein as Lemieux bitching about violence in hockey while putting away the pen he uses to sign Matt Cooke's cheques. Russian hockey players are employees. They make widgets. If you sent them home to Russia, someone else would take their roster spot - probably an American or a Canadian who has no shot at Gretzky's records, but people will still show up for games. What they make is a drop in the bucket. Every Russian who has ever played in the NHL could pool their career earnings and it's probably equal to a quarterly profit statement for one of the bigger oligarchs. You go another link back and you're into the territory of trying to articulate how Ovechkin's support for a terrible regime is materially different than buying Apple products manufactured in China with who knows what kind of direct kickbacks necessary to the state in order to access all of that ridiculously cheap and unregulated labour. I mean, you can say he consciously supports the things you despise while as a consumer you're just buying a product.... I'm generally of the NAS school here (...I need to take personal inventory...or get drunk...something...), except I would add that there's government, individuals, and individuals whose wealth gives them quasi governmental power over the agenda in a country. Right now the first of those is doing something that is brutal for the second and probably would benefit the third in the long run if you don't do something to make them feel it isn't worth it. |
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Post by badhabitude on Mar 3, 2022 23:29:58 GMT
I'm kinda torn on this. I agree with NAS that punishing individuals, on the basis of their country of origin, isn't a very fair or reasonable concept. I don't really think we should go down that road, unless things escalate to the point that some response is forced upon us. We shouldn't forget that an important distinction between us and Russia is that over here you really can't be persecuted for things like background, ethnicity, opinion, etc. With that said, I not feeling very welcoming personally towards Russians who come to North America to get rich, while at the same time supporting a regime back home that violates our basic human values, freedoms, and decency. In 2014, Ovechkin proudly wore a t-shirt around their locker room that said "Crimea is Ours". I don't really have a problem with the NHL or the Caps owner telling him that shit isn't gonna fly if he wants to keep taking their pay checks over here. There is some hypocrisy here when Russian players are gleefully choosing to live and work in the capitalistic democracies of America and Canada, and then support (financially, philosophically) a regime back home that is working to destroy democracies in other parts of the world. Perhaps, if they favor their style of governance, they should walk the walk and play over there. Then they can worry less about American decadence, and more about whether the team plane will get off the ground or not... I guess the chain can go for as many links you want. Fine Ted Leonsis. That guy has made a giant ass bag of cash from employing Ovechkin. Punish the employee or the employer who's making money off of a guy who supports a dictatorship in his home country? In some ways, I think about it in the same vein as Lemieux bitching about violence in hockey while putting away the pen he uses to sign Matt Cooke's cheques. Russian hockey players are employees. They make widgets. If you sent them home to Russia, someone else would take their roster spot - probably an American or a Canadian who has no shot at Gretzky's records, but people will still show up for games. What they make is a drop in the bucket. Every Russian who has ever played in the NHL could pool their career earnings and it's probably equal to a quarterly profit statement for one of the bigger oligarchs. You go another link back and you're into the territory of trying to articulate how Ovechkin's support for a terrible regime is materially different than buying Apple products manufactured in China with who knows what kind of direct kickbacks necessary to the state in order to access all of that ridiculously cheap and unregulated labour. I mean, you can say he consciously supports the things you despise while as a consumer you're just buying a product.... I'm generally of the NAS school here (...I need to take personal inventory...or get drunk...something...), except I would add that there's government, individuals, and individuals whose wealth gives them quasi governmental power over the agenda in a country. Right now the first of those is doing something that is brutal for the second and probably would benefit the third in the long run if you don't do something to make them feel it isn't worth it. At the end of the day I am thinking if punishing people's wallets - no matter who they are - is a better war tool than filling their bodies with lead. There is a big difference between financial injustice and maiming and killing people. I want this war to stop, but you can't always get what you want, and I'm afraid we're in for the long haul. |
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Post by sandogbrewin on Mar 3, 2022 23:30:16 GMT
I'm kinda torn on this. I agree with NAS that punishing individuals, on the basis of their country of origin, isn't a very fair or reasonable concept. I don't really think we should go down that road, unless things escalate to the point that some response is forced upon us. We shouldn't forget that an important distinction between us and Russia is that over here you really can't be persecuted for things like background, ethnicity, opinion, etc. With that said, I not feeling very welcoming personally towards Russians who come to North America to get rich, while at the same time supporting a regime back home that violates our basic human values, freedoms, and decency. In 2014, Ovechkin proudly wore a t-shirt around their locker room that said "Crimea is Ours". I don't really have a problem with the NHL or the Caps owner telling him that shit isn't gonna fly if he wants to keep taking their pay checks over here. There is some hypocrisy here when Russian players are gleefully choosing to live and work in the capitalistic democracies of America and Canada, and then support (financially, philosophically) a regime back home that is working to destroy democracies in other parts of the world. Perhaps, if they favor their style of governance, they should walk the walk and play over there. Then they can worry less about American decadence, and more about whether the team plane will get off the ground or not... Yah alpha, A type personalities, pro athletes want there cake and eat it too. Get to live and earn millions in the western world and say nice things about their master. But on the other side, for Russian athletes speaking out against Putin, I am scared for any family member, living in Russia. Putins police force would Crack down on any dissenters. Especially celebrity family members. I wouldn't say a word about that ex-KGB thug. |
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Post by badhabitude on Mar 3, 2022 23:58:56 GMT
I'm kinda torn on this. I agree with NAS that punishing individuals, on the basis of their country of origin, isn't a very fair or reasonable concept. I don't really think we should go down that road, unless things escalate to the point that some response is forced upon us. We shouldn't forget that an important distinction between us and Russia is that over here you really can't be persecuted for things like background, ethnicity, opinion, etc. With that said, I not feeling very welcoming personally towards Russians who come to North America to get rich, while at the same time supporting a regime back home that violates our basic human values, freedoms, and decency. In 2014, Ovechkin proudly wore a t-shirt around their locker room that said "Crimea is Ours". I don't really have a problem with the NHL or the Caps owner telling him that shit isn't gonna fly if he wants to keep taking their pay checks over here. There is some hypocrisy here when Russian players are gleefully choosing to live and work in the capitalistic democracies of America and Canada, and then support (financially, philosophically) a regime back home that is working to destroy democracies in other parts of the world. Perhaps, if they favor their style of governance, they should walk the walk and play over there. Then they can worry less about American decadence, and more about whether the team plane will get off the ground or not... Yah alpha, A type personalities, pro athletes want there cake and eat it too. Get to live and earn millions in the western world and say nice things about their master. But on the other side, for Russian athletes speaking out against Putin, I am scared for any family member, living in Russia. Putins police force would Crack down on any dissenters. Especially celebrity family members. I wouldn't say a word about that ex-KGB thug. But that's just it, fear is their weapon and it's being wielded with skill - he's gotten to you. If EVERYBODY speaks out, he can't put EVERYONE in Siberia. I don't believe it's as powerful as it was in Soviet times. Yes, he still has power, but its spread much thinner than it once was. Look how many are speaking out now, in Soviet times there would be NONE. It's up to everyone to speak out, the more people that do, the safer it is for everyone. It's exactly like the 4 gang bangers beating up an old lady in front of a crowd, if EVERYONE jumps in the gang bangers don't have a chance. |
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Post by badhabitude on Mar 3, 2022 23:59:48 GMT
Believe it or not I'm quoting someone else, "we have nothing to fear, but fear itself."
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Post by sandogbrewin on Mar 4, 2022 0:56:59 GMT
"I don't believe it's as powerful as it was in Soviet times. Yes, he still has power, but its spread much thinner than it once was."
This is absolutely false. Putin has access to the same nuclear weapons CCCP had access too. No one will rise up against him Russia. If they do they get poisoned.
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Post by badhabitude on Mar 4, 2022 2:15:15 GMT
"I don't believe it's as powerful as it was in Soviet times. Yes, he still has power, but its spread much thinner than it once was." This is absolutely false. Putin has access to the same nuclear weapons CCCP had access too. No one will rise up against him Russia. If they do they get poisoned. True on nuclear weapons, but I was talking about taking political prisoners and etc. There are no Gulags in Siberia anymore as Stalin once had, 1920's until Stalin's death there were 18 million people in the Gulag system. There is nowhere near that number today. Formerly the KGB and the STASI (east Germany) would take people in the night routinely, much less now. Putin is shutting down non state controlled media - in Stalin's day there were no other media outlets period. Putin is shutting down these media sources because he doesn't have enough police to control protests, in order to quell widespread protests he would have to use troops he's currently using in the Ukraine. Russian and not afraid of Putin. A Russian businessman has put a $1 million bounty on Vladimir Putin's head, calling for military officers to arrest him as a war criminal news.yahoo.com/russian-businessman-put-1-million-053413403.htmlIn Stalin's day this guy's life span would have been measured in seconds no matter where he was currently living. Remember the Bulgarian who was assassinated by a KGB agent in the 70's - back then they would kill ALL dissidents, now - not to the degree and expertise of the previous era, he's primarily targeting Russian dissidents. Another Russian not afraid of Putin. "Lukoil, Russia’s second-largest oil company, appeared to distance itself from President Vladimir V. Putin on Thursday by calling for a “fast resolution” to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. The statement most likely reflects the company’s desire to protect its extensive overseas operations, which include a network of more than 200 franchised gas stations in states like New York and New Jersey. Lukoil is one of the most recognizable Russian brands in the United States." |
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Post by sandogbrewin on Mar 4, 2022 12:23:19 GMT
You are in fantasy land if you think Russians would rise up against Putin.
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Post by NAS on Mar 4, 2022 12:30:36 GMT
You are in fantasy land if you think Russians would rise up against Putin. In a world where waiters intentionally block your view of the Bruins game with tables, anything is possible.
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Post by badhabitude on Mar 4, 2022 15:22:14 GMT
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Post by badhabitude on Mar 4, 2022 15:43:25 GMT
Not from the newspapers, but what I know from personal experience.
Take it for what its worth.
I have family in Poland and the Ukraine and know Russians.
They were all scarred by war and deeply, it was literally in their backyards, not like us who read about it in newspapers or at most had a relative who fought and maybe even died there, but there is a difference when its up close and personal.
The Slavic people in general, including Russians, especially the older ones know war much better than we do here. Wars for us were places far away. Not for them.
Every single Polish and Ukrainian relative I had, and there were 13 in my father's family and 5 in my mother's, *ALL* were taken for forced labor by the Nazis.
Then came the Soviets.
Polish and Ukrainian relatives have told me that people disappeared in the middle of the night, taken by the KGB and disappeared just for speaking out - and not even speaking out very harshly.
You see the protests now, under the Soviets there would never be ANY protests at all period.
Are the Russians cracking down on the protests? Yes.
But the landscape is different.
Going back 2 generations those people were mistreated by the czar and revolted.
Then came the Soviets who arguably treated them worse.
So the people you had then like 1917-1991 were used to being abused and dominated.
But since 1991 they have had relative freedom, once you give people rights and expectations it is more difficult to put them back into a police state.
NOT impossible. But much more difficult.
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Post by badhabitude on Mar 5, 2022 21:29:45 GMT
Since Putin has shut down the media in Russia.
Consider this.
Russian hockey players are being threatened here in the US.
There are 41 players in the NHL
There are 39 in the AHL
Make a wild ass guess as to how many Russians in the US now playing college and Junior.
Let's say 40 amateur Russians in North America.
Send them back to Russia.
At least they won't be living under threat.
And at least about 120 voices bringing real news back to Russia.
It's not much, but it something.
I think the biggest part of this war is getting the facts into Russia as almost all of them are now only getting only the state sponsored news.
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