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Post by sandogbrewin on Jul 21, 2023 18:22:10 GMT
.907, .890, and .907 are awful playoff stats for a goalie. And why Nabokov was jettisoned. How good was Wilson's decision making on goalies during that era ? Niemi was the replacement. Variables and data mining ? It's the same as Bruins fans blaming just Joe Thornton for the 2004 collapse. Right, so not scoring any goals is excused because the goalie had a .907 s%? Pointing out that they couldn't score 2 goals/game in the series the lost year after year after year with Joe as their offensive catalyst isn't data mining, ffs. It's picking low hanging fruit. Having that kind of goaltending is not going win any NHL team anything in the playoffs. Thornton wasn't the only forward on the Sharks.
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Post by dannycater on Jul 21, 2023 19:30:50 GMT
My unsung hero of the 90s is Donnie…. Sweeney helped a certain guy named Ray anchor the B’S d-corps after the departure of Glen Wesley…. Donnie and Ray helped keep the B’S respectable for the better part of the decade despite the motley crew assembled around them such as Garry Galley, Alan Pederson, Bob Beers, Jim Wiemer, David Shaw, Gord Murphy, Glen Featherstone, Jamie Huscroft, Alexei Kasatonov, and Rick Zombie just to name a few that would’ve made Grezlik look like a candidate for the Norris…. Donnie was pretty reliable in the back end although he looked to be punching above his weight class…. Donnie was exposed in the 91' and 92' series against the Penguins and the 93' series against the Sabres. Me thinks Sweeney did his level best. But he got eaten up by top 6 forwards most of the time. Completely explaining his love affair with Gryz
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Post by bookboy007 on Jul 21, 2023 19:50:21 GMT
My unsung hero of the 90s is Donnie…. Sweeney helped a certain guy named Ray anchor the B’S d-corps after the departure of Glen Wesley…. Donnie and Ray helped keep the B’S respectable for the better part of the decade despite the motley crew assembled around them such as Garry Galley, Alan Pederson, Bob Beers, Jim Wiemer, David Shaw, Gord Murphy, Glen Featherstone, Jamie Huscroft, Alexei Kasatonov, and Rick Zombie just to name a few that would’ve made Grezlik look like a candidate for the Norris…. Donnie was pretty reliable in the back end although he looked to be punching above his weight class…. Donnie was Cliffy Gen 0. Not a PMD, but smart enough with the puck in ways that helped the offense and not afraid to take chances. Physical for his size (not the hitter Cliffy is...), and hard on the puck for his size. That's such a murderers row of defenders! Wait, sorry, that's such a group of murder victims! I will say that for his first year and a half or so, I thought Shaw was very serviceable. 10 goals 24 points, 108 Pims. I thought he was a steal (future considerations). And I have a soft spot for Galley though he wasn't shy about taking risks for a guy who didn't top .5 points/game until he was in Philly a few years after leaving Boston.
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Post by thanx4memORRies on Jul 21, 2023 19:51:01 GMT
My unsung hero of the 90s is Donnie…. Sweeney helped a certain guy named Ray anchor the B’S d-corps after the departure of Glen Wesley…. Donnie and Ray helped keep the B’S respectable for the better part of the decade despite the motley crew assembled around them such as Garry Galley, Alan Pederson, Bob Beers, Jim Wiemer, David Shaw, Gord Murphy, Glen Featherstone, Jamie Huscroft, Alexei Kasatonov, and Rick Zombie just to name a few that would’ve made Grezlik look like a candidate for the Norris…. Donnie was pretty reliable in the back end although he looked to be punching above his weight class…. Donnie was exposed in the 91' and 92' series against the Penguins and the 93' series against the Sabres. Me thinks Sweeney did his level best. But he got eaten up by top 6 forwards most of the time. Those Penguins’ teams exposed more talented d-men than Donnie many a time…. As for the series against the Sabres, that was another sh!t show of magnanimous proportions, and especially courtesy of Andy Moog….
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Post by bookboy007 on Jul 21, 2023 19:54:08 GMT
Right, so not scoring any goals is excused because the goalie had a .907 s%? Pointing out that they couldn't score 2 goals/game in the series the lost year after year after year with Joe as their offensive catalyst isn't data mining, ffs. It's picking low hanging fruit. Having that kind of goaltending is not going win any NHL team anything in the playoffs. Thornton wasn't the only forward on the Sharks. No, he wasn't. But he didn't help. When they were successful and scoring often, it was his ass everyone kissed. All I want is him to take the same share of criticism for his teams failures as he expected for their success. And you can win a cup with the good years they got from Niemi and Nabokov. Your goalie doesn't have to be all world every year. Niemi has a Cup. Niemi gave them dynamite goaltending one of those years - sub. 2.00 GAA and over .930 s%. Philip Grubauer has a ring. Adin Hill has a ring.
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Post by dannycater on Jul 21, 2023 20:02:04 GMT
Tyler Bertuzzi, Joe Thornton, Tyler Seguin are not on book's dinner guest list.
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Post by bookboy007 on Jul 21, 2023 20:03:28 GMT
Tyler Bertuzzi, Joe Thornton, Tyler Seguin are not on book's dinner guest list. Nope! I'd drink with any of them, though. Probably end up with fewer teeth at the end of the night....
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Post by RichHillOntario on Jul 21, 2023 21:10:59 GMT
I used to love watching Randy Burridge scurry about after the puck like a mad dog. Short, squat and fast he was. You know how in...ready...roller derby (Yeah, I said it.) where players used to be catapulted or swung ahead of others? I remember him playing like that, as if he were being flung after the puck. In '87/'88, his first year with the Bruins, he had 27 goals, added 28 assists 55 points and 105 PIMS. The next season was his career year with 31 goals, 30 assists for 61 points. Like Stan Mikita once said about needing a really long stick to score from the box, Burridge's penalty totals dropped to 39. That 1988/89 club on which he had his best year had the likes of Bob Sweeney, Linesman, Steve Kasper, Craig Janney and Bobby Carpenter at center but I can't remember who centered for him. Anyone?
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Post by sandogbrewin on Jul 21, 2023 21:13:25 GMT
Donnie was exposed in the 91' and 92' series against the Penguins and the 93' series against the Sabres. Me thinks Sweeney did his level best. But he got eaten up by top 6 forwards most of the time. Those Penguins’ teams exposed more talented d-men than Donnie many a time…. As for the series against the Sabres, that was another sh!t show of magnanimous proportions, and especially courtesy of Andy Moog…. The Sabres and Penguins walked all over the Bruins D before they ever got to Andy Moog. Sweeney was a cardboard cut out stiff.
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Post by sandogbrewin on Jul 21, 2023 21:49:32 GMT
Having that kind of goaltending is not going win any NHL team anything in the playoffs. Thornton wasn't the only forward on the Sharks. No, he wasn't. But he didn't help. When they were successful and scoring often, it was his ass everyone kissed. All I want is him to take the same share of criticism for his teams failures as he expected for their success. And you can win a cup with the good years they got from Niemi and Nabokov. Your goalie doesn't have to be all world every year. Niemi has a Cup. Niemi gave them dynamite goaltending one of those years - sub. 2.00 GAA and over .930 s%. Philip Grubauer has a ring. Adin Hill has a ring. Sure if you have Chicago's overall deth you can.
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Post by pletchner on Jul 22, 2023 10:21:43 GMT
Stan Jonathan.
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Post by thanx4memORRies on Jul 22, 2023 12:24:28 GMT
Those Penguins’ teams exposed more talented d-men than Donnie many a time…. As for the series against the Sabres, that was another sh!t show of magnanimous proportions, and especially courtesy of Andy Moog…. The Sabres and Penguins walked all over the Bruins D before they ever got to Andy Moog. Sweeney was a cardboard cut out stiff. Andy Moog couldn’t stop a beach ball in the Sabres series…. .791 save%…. Ouch!
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Post by orrespocash on Jul 24, 2023 16:34:46 GMT
Tommy Fergus another young B who was awesome. B's had a stretch of years where they were able to produce so many of their own talent. It all has dried up a bit since DK/Lucic/Axellson/Sobotka/Rask....maybe make a resurgence in Lohrei, Lysell....who knows....Pasta, DeBrusk, Carlo, McAvoy however, so maybe it's always been there...it's all those disappointments the last several years. Studnicka, etc. The Bruins did pretty well at the draft table from 1969-1981, but then the worm turned and I don't know if it was the fact that the talent pool was further watered down or if Harry got complacent. In no precise order, they picked Boldirev, Leach, MacLeish, Dan Bouchard, O'Reilly, Andre Savard, Mark Howe, Doug Halward, Al Secord, Craig McTavish, Bourque, McCrimmon, Crowder, Krushylnyski, Pederson, Fergus, and Kasper. Imagine if they had been able to keep them all - a blueline with Howe, Bourque, and McCrimmon? Hell of a tough forward group to play against and they could produce. Bouchard a reasonable choice in net (probably doesn't displace earlier Bruins property like Parent or Dryden, though...). In that window, though, they still booted a lot of high first rounders: Don Tannahil and Frank Spring 3rd and 4th overall in 1969, Ron Plumb 9th overall in 1970, Mike Bloom in 1972, Don Larway in 74, Clayton Paschal in 76. More recently, interesting to compare the 2000-09 draft years to the 2010-2019 drafts. 2000s: Stuart, Bergeron, Thompson, Krejci, Versteeg, Hunwick, Sobotka, Kessel, Lucic, Marchand. I cut the line just above Jurcina, Alberts and Morrisonn. 2010s: Segzy, Hamilton, Grz, Benning, Pastrnak, Heinen, DeBrusk, Carlo, Lauzon, McAvoy, Frederic, Lindgren, Swayman. More tolerant of lower games played for guys still playing. Kessel and Segzy cancel each other out. Pastrnak and Marchand, I guess, as 100 point guys. Lauzon and Stuart. Thompson and Benning. Versteeg>Heinen. DeBrusk>Sobotka. Grz>Hunwick. Now it gets difficult because you're comparing apples to houseplants. Somehow Bergeron, Krejci (possibly 2 HoFers, and at least 1), Lucic vs. Hamilton, Carlo, McAvoy, Frederic and Swayman. Could be basically a saw-off as of right now if you project for Swayman, with Frederic as the extra that tips the balance to the 2010s. If you only count the guys who really contributed as Bruins: Bergeron, Krejci, Lucic and Marchand vs. Grz, Pastrnak, Debrusk, Carlo, McAvoy, and Swayman - again, assuming he's early in a long career. You could argue both ways, but that's kind of the point. Nothing has really "dried up" so much as they haven't had a good year since 2017. But that's mostly a result of trading capital. No first rounder in 18, 20, 22 or 23. Late round (27 or later) in 18, 19 and 20, so their second rounders would have been 4th rounders 35 years ago. The Bruins had Marty I believe. I wish they had Mark Howe lol!
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Post by dannycater on Jul 24, 2023 16:58:37 GMT
The Bruins did pretty well at the draft table from 1969-1981, but then the worm turned and I don't know if it was the fact that the talent pool was further watered down or if Harry got complacent. In no precise order, they picked Boldirev, Leach, MacLeish, Dan Bouchard, O'Reilly, Andre Savard, Mark Howe, Doug Halward, Al Secord, Craig McTavish, Bourque, McCrimmon, Crowder, Krushylnyski, Pederson, Fergus, and Kasper. Imagine if they had been able to keep them all - a blueline with Howe, Bourque, and McCrimmon? Hell of a tough forward group to play against and they could produce. Bouchard a reasonable choice in net (probably doesn't displace earlier Bruins property like Parent or Dryden, though...). In that window, though, they still booted a lot of high first rounders: Don Tannahil and Frank Spring 3rd and 4th overall in 1969, Ron Plumb 9th overall in 1970, Mike Bloom in 1972, Don Larway in 74, Clayton Paschal in 76. More recently, interesting to compare the 2000-09 draft years to the 2010-2019 drafts. 2000s: Stuart, Bergeron, Thompson, Krejci, Versteeg, Hunwick, Sobotka, Kessel, Lucic, Marchand. I cut the line just above Jurcina, Alberts and Morrisonn. 2010s: Segzy, Hamilton, Grz, Benning, Pastrnak, Heinen, DeBrusk, Carlo, Lauzon, McAvoy, Frederic, Lindgren, Swayman. More tolerant of lower games played for guys still playing. Kessel and Segzy cancel each other out. Pastrnak and Marchand, I guess, as 100 point guys. Lauzon and Stuart. Thompson and Benning. Versteeg>Heinen. DeBrusk>Sobotka. Grz>Hunwick. Now it gets difficult because you're comparing apples to houseplants. Somehow Bergeron, Krejci (possibly 2 HoFers, and at least 1), Lucic vs. Hamilton, Carlo, McAvoy, Frederic and Swayman. Could be basically a saw-off as of right now if you project for Swayman, with Frederic as the extra that tips the balance to the 2010s. If you only count the guys who really contributed as Bruins: Bergeron, Krejci, Lucic and Marchand vs. Grz, Pastrnak, Debrusk, Carlo, McAvoy, and Swayman - again, assuming he's early in a long career. You could argue both ways, but that's kind of the point. Nothing has really "dried up" so much as they haven't had a good year since 2017. But that's mostly a result of trading capital. No first rounder in 18, 20, 22 or 23. Late round (27 or later) in 18, 19 and 20, so their second rounders would have been 4th rounders 35 years ago. The Bruins had Marty I believe. I wish they had Mark Howe lol! The Whalers had him and incredibly traded him.
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Post by dezaruchi on Jul 25, 2023 21:10:58 GMT
Bergeron.
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Post by dannycater on Jul 25, 2023 21:14:36 GMT
I think he was credited and Paul Revered by fans...I think maybe he was trashed too much from end of season mystery in Montreal, injury, then forcing way back into lineup up 3-1 in Florida series....He is a legend and I doubt their is any B's fan in last 20 years who doesn't think #37 when they think of the B's.
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Post by dezaruchi on Jul 25, 2023 21:21:27 GMT
I think he was credited and Paul Revered by fans...I think maybe he was trashed too much from end of season mystery in Montreal, injury, then forcing way back into lineup up 3-1 in Florida series....He is a legend and I doubt their is any B's fan in last 20 years who doesn't think #37 when they think of the B's. No amount of credit is enough for Bergeron. I felt myself starting to tear up watching DK and Marchand say their goodbyes.
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Post by The OC on Jul 25, 2023 23:58:54 GMT
There's an argument here. We know what Bruins fans (and most around the League) view him as: Leader, best defensive forward (all time?), faceoff king, great guy, scorer, role model. I think at one point he was 82% of jersey sales. But to people TRULY grasp how good he was? The Bruins were the best team in the league over his 19 year career. That's quite the statement. Crosby's Pens are in second. Basic stats don't quite capture how dominant he was. Advanced stats are sketchy, but various numbers calculate the Bruins controlled 60-80% of the play while he's on the ice, depending on if you're measuring shots, chances, goals or whatever. The possession numbers are remarkable, and even more remarkable when you factor he was almost always used against the best from the other team. So if you had Bergie and the other team had Croz or OV or McD or whoever, it was likely you were coming out of that game with over 60% of the scoring chances when the two players clashed on the ice. That's a heavy thought. Does that make Bergie not only a great guy and 200-foot player, but the best player of his generation? Of course without 50 goals or 100pts in a season, most will say no. But the best record in the league over his career suggests yes. There is definitely an argument that he's one of the best, and in the very least that his true value is underrated.
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Post by dannycater on Jul 26, 2023 3:44:47 GMT
There's an argument here. We know what Bruins fans (and most around the League) view him as: Leader, best defensive forward (all time?), faceoff king, great guy, scorer, role model. I think at one point he was 82% of jersey sales. But to people TRULY grasp how good he was? The Bruins were the best team in the league over his 19 year career. That's quite the statement. Crosby's Pens are in second. Basic stats don't quite capture how dominant he was. Advanced stats are sketchy, but various numbers calculate the Bruins controlled 60-80% of the play while he's on the ice, depending on if you're measuring shots, chances, goals or whatever. The possession numbers are remarkable, and even more remarkable when you factor he was almost always used against the best from the other team. So if you had Bergie and the other team had Croz or OV or McD or whoever, it was likely you were coming out of that game with over 60% of the scoring chances when the two players clashed on the ice. That's a heavy thought. Does that make Bergie not only a great guy and 200-foot player, but the best player of his generation? Of course without 50 goals or 100pts in a season, most will say no. But the best record in the league over his career suggests yes. There is definitely an argument that he's one of the best, and in the very least that his true value is underrated. My feeling is that he may have been underrated league wide, but I don't feel that B's fans underrated him or even remotely felt that he wasn't the best player on the team...hell Julien used that line on Marchand about you will never be as good as #37. And he is fucking right.
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Post by The OC on Jul 26, 2023 4:21:22 GMT
There's an argument here. We know what Bruins fans (and most around the League) view him as: Leader, best defensive forward (all time?), faceoff king, great guy, scorer, role model. I think at one point he was 82% of jersey sales. But to people TRULY grasp how good he was? The Bruins were the best team in the league over his 19 year career. That's quite the statement. Crosby's Pens are in second. Basic stats don't quite capture how dominant he was. Advanced stats are sketchy, but various numbers calculate the Bruins controlled 60-80% of the play while he's on the ice, depending on if you're measuring shots, chances, goals or whatever. The possession numbers are remarkable, and even more remarkable when you factor he was almost always used against the best from the other team. So if you had Bergie and the other team had Croz or OV or McD or whoever, it was likely you were coming out of that game with over 60% of the scoring chances when the two players clashed on the ice. That's a heavy thought. Does that make Bergie not only a great guy and 200-foot player, but the best player of his generation? Of course without 50 goals or 100pts in a season, most will say no. But the best record in the league over his career suggests yes. There is definitely an argument that he's one of the best, and in the very least that his true value is underrated. My feeling is that he may have been underrated league wide, but I don't feel that B's fans underrated him or even remotely felt that he wasn't the best player on the team...hell Julien used that line on Marchand about you will never be as good as #37. And he is fucking right. Oh B's management knew what they had. Behind the scenes clips showed them way back saying they could build a franchise around Bergie before they trade Thornton. And Donnie called him a generational type player. I mean more among fans and overall public view.
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Post by dannycater on Jul 26, 2023 4:26:19 GMT
My feeling is that he may have been underrated league wide, but I don't feel that B's fans underrated him or even remotely felt that he wasn't the best player on the team...hell Julien used that line on Marchand about you will never be as good as #37. And he is fucking right. Oh B's management knew what they had. Behind the scenes clips showed them way back saying they could build a franchise around Bergie before they trade Thornton. And Donnie called him a generational type player. I mean more among fans and overall public view. I think the fans adored him....I don't think he was ever under-credited by fans...
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Post by dezaruchi on Jul 26, 2023 5:09:04 GMT
My feeling is that he may have been underrated league wide, but I don't feel that B's fans underrated him or even remotely felt that he wasn't the best player on the team...hell Julien used that line on Marchand about you will never be as good as #37. And he is fucking right. Oh B's management knew what they had. Behind the scenes clips showed them way back saying they could build a franchise around Bergie before they trade Thornton. And Donnie called him a generational type player. I mean more among fans and overall public view. Tavares once called him the "perfect player" and t was just a few years ago when McDavid said he considered himself to be the number one center in any NHL city outside of Boston. Opponents are all too aware of how difficult he is to play against. He was never the top scoring player but nobody did more to help their team win games. Fuck! I'm still feeling much worse than any grown man should over the retirement of his favourite hockey player.
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Post by dannycater on Jul 26, 2023 14:04:29 GMT
I think he was credited and Paul Revered by fans...I think maybe he was trashed too much from end of season mystery in Montreal, injury, then forcing way back into lineup up 3-1 in Florida series....He is a legend and I doubt their is any B's fan in last 20 years who doesn't think #37 when they think of the B's. No amount of credit is enough for Bergeron. I felt myself starting to tear up watching DK and Marchand say their goodbyes. Yes, with people like stevegm around, you're right, Bergeron is clearly not credited enough.
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