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Post by Fletcher on Apr 25, 2024 22:52:40 GMT
I still can't really believe the Sheldon Keefe press conference and the Marchand stuff. I think a good debate is in how Monty might react to that. Does he A:
Play the game and point out to the media that: -the PPs were 5-3 Leafs. -Matthews drew several penalties going down very easily, if we want to talk about embellishment. -Domi got away with knocking Swayman to the ice during a break (can you imagine if Marchand did that?). -Bertuzzi is no more deserving of the officials benefit of the doubt than Marchand - he and Domi have been following him around all series trying to goad the B's leading scorer into trouble. The officials see it, and are unlikely to single one guy out when they tangle up. -Gratuitously note that we should respect the officials more -- they are have a tough job and are not getting duped out there. Note that Keefe's complaining about the officiating is disrespectful and they're too professional to be manipulated like that.
or B: Stay quiet and leave the gamesmanship and whining on the Toronto side, smile, and assume that the officiating crew will be more annoyed by a coach openly implying that they're suckers, or biased or unaware, than they would be influenced to reactively watch Marchand hawkishly in Game 4.
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Post by bookboy007 on Apr 25, 2024 23:46:23 GMT
I still can't really believe the Sheldon Keefe press conference and the Marchand stuff. I think a good debate is in how Monty might react to that. Does he A: Play the game and point out to the media that: -the PPs were 5-3 Leafs. -Matthews drew several penalties going down very easily, if we want to talk about embellishment. -Domi got away with knocking Swayman to the ice during a break (can you imagine if Marchand did that?). -Bertuzzi is no more deserving of the officials benefit of the doubt than Marchand - he and Domi have been following him around all series trying to goad the B's leading scorer into trouble. The officials see it, and are unlikely to single one guy out when they tangle up. -Gratuitously note that we should respect the officials more -- they are have a tough job and are not getting duped out there. Note that Keefe's complaining about the officiating is disrespectful and they're too professional to be manipulated like that. or B: Stay quiet and leave the gamesmanship and whining on the Toronto side, smile, and assume that the officiating crew will be more annoyed by a coach openly implying that they're suckers, or biased or unaware, than they would be influenced to reactively watch Marchand hawkishly in Game 4. Normally, I am of the Julien school - can't talk; eating chicken! Julien was great at modelling that behaviour. Those Bruins teams had a rep and if they had moaned and whined and sucked for calls and called the refs dupes and all the things Keefe is doing and saying, they'd have had 30 minutes of PK a night. Soft call? Say nothing. Serve your time. Get your money's worth on the next one. String of penalties for you and none for the opponent? Patience, grasshopper. Kill the penalty. Go silent, get violent. After the great Berube con of aught 19, I wonder if you don't have to register something. Keefe gave you an opening with his response about the bump on Swayman; Montgomery said something about Swayman being in their heads, and Keefe said no, and stuff like that's happening all over the ice. So you quote him. "Like their coach said, stuff like their guy bumping our goalie and slashing our leading scorer when he doesn't have the puck is happening all over the ice. It's the playoffs. Everything is an opportunity to step up, and I think our guys have, Swayman shutting the door after the bump, Marchand scoring the winner and the ENG." Things change fast. In 2011, being the team that let the refs do their jobs was such a contrast to the Scabs and the Canucks and you saw what that meant when both of those teams tried to put on their Speedos and suck for PPs. Nope. Play hockey. 2019, though, you saw the turn where NOT taking the stand to counter was taken almost as an admission of guilt. I think you have to say something now and it's kind of sad.
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Post by bookboy007 on Apr 25, 2024 23:51:02 GMT
This is a fun video of (Leafs die hard fan) Steve Dangle summarizing last night's game... LeafsBruins_Game 3I love this comment: Willy really pulled a reverse VGK, didn't he. Instead of not playing when he's getting paid then coming back when he's not, Nylander looked at the world and said "huh. So my paycheques stop after game 82? Bye-eeeeeeee!" [sound of Jet leaving for Sweden...]
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Post by 50belowzero on Apr 26, 2024 0:58:41 GMT
Yep, this game could have easily went the other way, it took a perfect Marchand shot to seal it or OT was on the horizon, all bets off then. I'm glad the B's got home ice back though, it's a start. It was close, but it also wasn't that close. The Bruins wholly deserved to win that one, unlike Game 2, which the Leafs deserved. The Leafs got an uber-flukey goal on a double deflection off a skate. They got 5 powerplays for their superstars. JVR beat Samsonov and hit a post. Frederic hit a post. Yes, Marchand sniped a bulls eye on the game-winner, but he was also left uncovered at the bottom of the circle, while four Leafs appeared to be watching the eclipse. On the Debrusk goal, three Leafs (including both defenders) were pinned against the side boards, while the puck came to the net. Even on the empty netter, Bertuzzi played soft and four other Leafs didn't hustle back at all, hoping that the puck would just jump past Marchand and Pasta. Honestly, it was a horrific 3rd period for them. Imagine the reaction here if the Bruins blew a 3rd period lead in their first home playoff game, by getting beat 3-0 in the period, with each goal being an ugly defensive (lack of) effort. I hope that the are thinking this game was a coin toss, or that the refs screwed them, or whatever. The reality was that one team was just better after the 1st period. Hope it stays that way. Yeah, B's were full marks for the victory for sure but it was still tied with 8 minutes to go, anything can happen. TO has their moments but overall they look beatable, imagine if Pasta gets going, would love to see the B's blowout the LeRfs next game.
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Post by Fletcher on Apr 26, 2024 13:24:18 GMT
I still can't really believe the Sheldon Keefe press conference and the Marchand stuff. I think a good debate is in how Monty might react to that. Does he A: Play the game and point out to the media that: -the PPs were 5-3 Leafs. -Matthews drew several penalties going down very easily, if we want to talk about embellishment. -Domi got away with knocking Swayman to the ice during a break (can you imagine if Marchand did that?). -Bertuzzi is no more deserving of the officials benefit of the doubt than Marchand - he and Domi have been following him around all series trying to goad the B's leading scorer into trouble. The officials see it, and are unlikely to single one guy out when they tangle up. -Gratuitously note that we should respect the officials more -- they are have a tough job and are not getting duped out there. Note that Keefe's complaining about the officiating is disrespectful and they're too professional to be manipulated like that. or B: Stay quiet and leave the gamesmanship and whining on the Toronto side, smile, and assume that the officiating crew will be more annoyed by a coach openly implying that they're suckers, or biased or unaware, than they would be influenced to reactively watch Marchand hawkishly in Game 4. Normally, I am of the Julien school - can't talk; eating chicken! Julien was great at modelling that behaviour. Those Bruins teams had a rep and if they had moaned and whined and sucked for calls and called the refs dupes and all the things Keefe is doing and saying, they'd have had 30 minutes of PK a night. Soft call? Say nothing. Serve your time. Get your money's worth on the next one. String of penalties for you and none for the opponent? Patience, grasshopper. Kill the penalty. Go silent, get violent. After the great Berube con of aught 19, I wonder if you don't have to register something. Keefe gave you an opening with his response about the bump on Swayman; Montgomery said something about Swayman being in their heads, and Keefe said no, and stuff like that's happening all over the ice. So you quote him. "Like their coach said, stuff like their guy bumping our goalie and slashing our leading scorer when he doesn't have the puck is happening all over the ice. It's the playoffs. Everything is an opportunity to step up, and I think our guys have, Swayman shutting the door after the bump, Marchand scoring the winner and the ENG." Things change fast. In 2011, being the team that let the refs do their jobs was such a contrast to the Scabs and the Canucks and you saw what that meant when both of those teams tried to put on their Speedos and suck for PPs. Nope. Play hockey. 2019, though, you saw the turn where NOT taking the stand to counter was taken almost as an admission of guilt. I think you have to say something now and it's kind of sad. Yeah, I'm thinking along the same lines. Maybe split the difference a little here. With the power and range of the Toronto media, I think you might need to say something to prevent the momentum of the "Bruins are getting away with it!" narrative. It just seems so hard not to draw some attention to Domi and Bertuzzi, who are trying to do everything Marchand does, and failing at it, while their coach plays the aggrieved victim for the cameras.
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Post by Fletcher on Apr 26, 2024 13:38:45 GMT
Normally, I am of the Julien school - can't talk; eating chicken! Julien was great at modelling that behaviour. Those Bruins teams had a rep and if they had moaned and whined and sucked for calls and called the refs dupes and all the things Keefe is doing and saying, they'd have had 30 minutes of PK a night. Soft call? Say nothing. Serve your time. Get your money's worth on the next one. String of penalties for you and none for the opponent? Patience, grasshopper. Kill the penalty. Go silent, get violent. After the great Berube con of aught 19, I wonder if you don't have to register something. Keefe gave you an opening with his response about the bump on Swayman; Montgomery said something about Swayman being in their heads, and Keefe said no, and stuff like that's happening all over the ice. So you quote him. "Like their coach said, stuff like their guy bumping our goalie and slashing our leading scorer when he doesn't have the puck is happening all over the ice. It's the playoffs. Everything is an opportunity to step up, and I think our guys have, Swayman shutting the door after the bump, Marchand scoring the winner and the ENG." Things change fast. In 2011, being the team that let the refs do their jobs was such a contrast to the Scabs and the Canucks and you saw what that meant when both of those teams tried to put on their Speedos and suck for PPs. Nope. Play hockey. 2019, though, you saw the turn where NOT taking the stand to counter was taken almost as an admission of guilt. I think you have to say something now and it's kind of sad. Yeah, I'm thinking along the same lines. Maybe split the difference a little here. With the power and range of the Toronto media, I think you might need to say something to prevent the momentum of the "Bruins are getting away with it!" narrative. It just seems so hard not to draw some attention to Domi and Bertuzzi, who are trying to do everything Marchand does, and failing at it, while their coach plays the aggrieved victim for the cameras. By the way, as someone who doesn't get a lot of Toronto media exposure, I'm kind of taken aback the more I pay attention. Is it always this way? Some of the finger pointing is so far-fetched and bizarre. I just watched a 5 minute news segment essentially blaming the Leaf fans for not being louder at the game. Say what you will about the fans, but it's hard to get loud and crazy when you get worked in the 3rd period, and the huge goal you've been waiting for is answered 20 seconds later by the Bruins. That'll deflate any building. Then...blaming the refs, blaming Nylander (some merit there, I guess), blaming the pressure on the players, bad luck, etc. They seem like they're one step away from blaming astrological signs. And...for God's sake, they could easily win the series if they just do the right things. It all seems kind of like a guy who's girlfriend dumps him for being an all-around asshole, and he's rationalizing to his friends about how crazy she must have been.
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Post by Fletcher on Apr 26, 2024 13:50:11 GMT
A nice perspective from Montreal...
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Post by dannycater on Apr 26, 2024 14:04:34 GMT
Yeah, I'm thinking along the same lines. Maybe split the difference a little here. With the power and range of the Toronto media, I think you might need to say something to prevent the momentum of the "Bruins are getting away with it!" narrative. It just seems so hard not to draw some attention to Domi and Bertuzzi, who are trying to do everything Marchand does, and failing at it, while their coach plays the aggrieved victim for the cameras. By the way, as someone who doesn't get a lot of Toronto media exposure, I'm kind of taken aback the more I pay attention. Is it always this way? Some of the finger pointing is so far-fetched and bizarre. I just watched a 5 minute news segment essentially blaming the Leaf fans for not being louder at the game. Say what you will about the fans, but it's hard to get loud and crazy when you get worked in the 3rd period, and the huge goal you've been waiting for is answered 20 seconds later by the Bruins. That'll deflate any building. Then...blaming the refs, blaming Nylander (some merit there, I guess), blaming the pressure on the players, bad luck, etc. They seem like they're one step away from blaming astrological signs. And...for God's sake, they could easily win the series if they just do the right things. It all seems kind of like a guy who's girlfriend dumps him for being an all-around asshole, and he's rationalizing to his friends about how crazy she must have been.
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Post by RichHillOntario on Apr 26, 2024 15:28:37 GMT
Yeah, I'm thinking along the same lines. Maybe split the difference a little here. With the power and range of the Toronto media, I think you might need to say something to prevent the momentum of the "Bruins are getting away with it!" narrative. It just seems so hard not to draw some attention to Domi and Bertuzzi, who are trying to do everything Marchand does, and failing at it, while their coach plays the aggrieved victim for the cameras. By the way, as someone who doesn't get a lot of Toronto media exposure, I'm kind of taken aback the more I pay attention. Is it always this way? Some of the finger pointing is so far-fetched and bizarre. I just watched a 5 minute news segment essentially blaming the Leaf fans for not being louder at the game. Say what you will about the fans, but it's hard to get loud and crazy when you get worked in the 3rd period, and the huge goal you've been waiting for is answered 20 seconds later by the Bruins. That'll deflate any building. Then...blaming the refs, blaming Nylander (some merit there, I guess), blaming the pressure on the players, bad luck, etc. They seem like they're one step away from blaming astrological signs. And...for God's sake, they could easily win the series if they just do the right things. It all seems kind of like a guy who's girlfriend dumps him for being an all-around asshole, and he's rationalizing to his friends about how crazy she must have been. Yes, Fletch, it is this way. All the time. Has been for ages. It likely doesn't help the cause for some slim form of objectivity when several former Leafs like Kypreos, Mike Johnson, Jeff O' Neill and Carlo Colaiacovo are threaded through local sports media with their Leaf inclinations, overtly or otherwise. I don't know what it's like in other cities in Canada and the States with their organizations but this hockey team is a year-round industry and they haven't won a championship in over one half of a century! There are over 20 Leaf-focussed podcasts around, everything from Gluttons For Punishment Toronto Maple Leafs and NHL Podcast, Leafs Guy Podcast to Ladies Talkin' Leafs, described as "The definitive Toronto Maple Leafs Podcast created by women for women. Join Chris and Syl twice a month, as they passionately discuss the latest Blue and White buzz, and share their unique insights on hockey and everything else rockin' Leafs Nation. Go Leafs Go!" Even our family's lawyer co-hosts his own Leaf talk show on Zoomer Radio. Great guy but on his airwaves, the Lufas can do no wrong. I've read descriptions of Scotiabank Arena as funereal. Maybe it is because of the team being more of a "white collar" experience with the blame placed on the corporate crowd in the lower bowl Gucchi Row section. I know some folks who have gone and watched large sections near them not watch much of the game, be on their phones and be late returning to their seats. I doubt corporate presence is the only influencer. We always hear about the prices of tickets and that most tickets are only available at jacked-up prices through the secondary ticket market, which MLSE have never shown any interest in getting under control. And why would they if they know some folks out there will pay anything to watch a game and buy their merch? When you are having to shell out several hundred bucks to attend a Tuesday night game against Columbus, if you can afford it and that is your in-person Loafs experience for the year, you're probably more invested in watching the game than turning the night out into a party. I know I would. A couple of months ago, a friend drove from Toronto to Ottawa to visit his son who had moved there for work. He and his wife were going to stay for the weekend and while there, were going to catch a Sens game. His boy bought three tickets each for $30.00. Here in Toronto, no Leaf ticket is that cheap. Not even close. It might help explain why there are so many of their fans at Sens home games. Quick story: Back in 2016, a buddy got hold of some tickets through work and asked if I wanted to go with him to see the Leaves play Nashville. We go and our seats were up in the 300 level of the rink: high for some but I was cool with them. They were free. During the game, I was yelling "YOU SUCK, RIBERO" every time he touched the puck. I wasn't obnoxious. I wasn't rude or profance. I was shouting against a player on the OTHER team. The mixture of looks I received were a cross between "Uh, oh! Loud black guy means trouble. HE'S GOT A GUN! " to "Willl this guy shut up?" I was among 18,000 other people, man. I didn't reduce my hollering at Ribero but I did yell at other players and not just him. I mean, we're at a game with thousands of people. What's often odd for me is how Toronto fans pack AWAY rinks in Montreal, Ottawa, Edmonton, Winnipeg, Calgary and Vancouver and shout the place down. They seem to make more noise in other arenas than down at Scotiabank. You can't help but see and hear them when they're shown on broadcasts. I think it's the same in both Florida cities as there's a healthy amount of Canadians in Tampa and Sunrise, I believe. Is it jus the economics of the price of ticket prices in those places? The abundance of straight up Loaf fans?
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Post by zamboni24 on Apr 26, 2024 17:04:37 GMT
It was close, but it also wasn't that close. The Bruins wholly deserved to win that one, unlike Game 2, which the Leafs deserved. The Leafs got an uber-flukey goal on a double deflection off a skate. They got 5 powerplays for their superstars. JVR beat Samsonov and hit a post. Frederic hit a post. Yes, Marchand sniped a bulls eye on the game-winner, but he was also left uncovered at the bottom of the circle, while four Leafs appeared to be watching the eclipse. On the Debrusk goal, three Leafs (including both defenders) were pinned against the side boards, while the puck came to the net. Even on the empty netter, Bertuzzi played soft and four other Leafs didn't hustle back at all, hoping that the puck would just jump past Marchand and Pasta. Honestly, it was a horrific 3rd period for them. Imagine the reaction here if the Bruins blew a 3rd period lead in their first home playoff game, by getting beat 3-0 in the period, with each goal being an ugly defensive (lack of) effort. I hope that the are thinking this game was a coin toss, or that the refs screwed them, or whatever. The reality was that one team was just better after the 1st period. Hope it stays that way. Yeah, B's were full marks for the victory for sure but it was still tied with 8 minutes to go, anything can happen. TO has their moments but overall they look beatable, imagine if Pasta gets going, would love to see the B's blowout the LeRfs next game. That’s why I was so nervous the last few minutes. Somehow this season — I witnessed TO score a number of times with the goalie pulled and the Bruins weren’t the best at hitting the open net. Fortunately the boys proved me wrong as they did with the PP and PK’s.
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Post by bookboy007 on Apr 26, 2024 17:25:17 GMT
Yeah, I'm thinking along the same lines. Maybe split the difference a little here. With the power and range of the Toronto media, I think you might need to say something to prevent the momentum of the "Bruins are getting away with it!" narrative. It just seems so hard not to draw some attention to Domi and Bertuzzi, who are trying to do everything Marchand does, and failing at it, while their coach plays the aggrieved victim for the cameras. By the way, as someone who doesn't get a lot of Toronto media exposure, I'm kind of taken aback the more I pay attention. Is it always this way? Some of the finger pointing is so far-fetched and bizarre. I just watched a 5 minute news segment essentially blaming the Leaf fans for not being louder at the game. Say what you will about the fans, but it's hard to get loud and crazy when you get worked in the 3rd period, and the huge goal you've been waiting for is answered 20 seconds later by the Bruins. That'll deflate any building. Then...blaming the refs, blaming Nylander (some merit there, I guess), blaming the pressure on the players, bad luck, etc. They seem like they're one step away from blaming astrological signs. And...for God's sake, they could easily win the series if they just do the right things. It all seems kind of like a guy who's girlfriend dumps him for being an all-around asshole, and he's rationalizing to his friends about how crazy she must have been. I feel like it's been getting worse - worse, even, than when I lived there through the Gilmour years and the beginning of the Sundin era. When Ken Dryden was Shanahan, and they had Bill Watters and Pat Quinn and...I think someone else as the three headed monster that probably gave Shanahan the idea. Or their higher-ups in MLSE, anyway. I think it calibrates to the growth of Sports media, because Toronto is the media hub - HQ for Sportsnet, TSN, Bell - as well as the largest TV market by far. Ontario is twice the size of Quebec, and Toronto is more populous than any other Province let alone city. In fact, if you take out Quebec, BC and Alberta, Toronto has more people than the rest of Canada. The only US city with more people is NY. It's the size of Philly, Houston and Chicago combined. So in terms of ad revenue and marketing for traditional media, Toronto's got a gravitational advantage over the rest of the country. And because of that, as these new national, private sector sports stations grew up, they catered to the largest segment of their market, which is in their backyard. For a long time, CBC insulated us. It was still all Toronto and Montreal, but there was at least some attempt at decorum. Grapes was colour in the CBC baby blue and prison gray energy palate. Now, and especially since Sportsnet paid through nostrils even bigger than Matthews' to get the hockey rights, it's a complete free for all of Toronto bias. And it's no different than the general conversation about how media has turned into an echo chamber of cognitive dissonance and bias confirmation. Leaf fans want to hear that the Leafs are God's Team! and so the only way they're losing - again - is because of something that doesn't challenge the idea that they are the best team with the best players. The idea that they are losing because their opponent is better isn't in their world view. At all. So you have a huge population getting fed garbage coverage that defies reality, allowing them to continue to deny reality and double down on their unwavering support for their team. Like Rich said, it was always bad. But now I can barely stand to listen to them even if the Bruins aren't involved. One of the things that's kind of an antidote is to listen to the local radio hits that some of the colour guys do around the league. They are much more candid - though very careful still - in what they say to the local jocks in Vancouver, or Calgary, or Montreal.
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Post by 50belowzero on Apr 26, 2024 17:47:59 GMT
A nice perspective from Montreal... I like takes like this, he's not a fan of either team so he has no agenda or bias, just called it like it was. When listening to the sickening LeafsNet or Toronto Sports Network it's so one sided it as pathetic, all the talking heads want to protect their phony baloney jobs (nod to Mel Brooks) so they tow the company line. It's like they're afraid to tell it like it really is, they obviously have absolutely no pride in their work or any shame.
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Post by badhabitude on Apr 26, 2024 20:54:17 GMT
I've not seen a commentary on the Marchand en goal. What I saw - March and Bertuzzi wrestling, both go down. But March springs back to his feet outhustling Bert by 50 country miles. Then he pots the en.
Could Bertuzzi do that under any circumstance late in the 3rd? I haven't seen it commented on. But that fitness level plus hustle is outclassing the Leafs totally.
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Post by brewwins on Apr 26, 2024 21:13:13 GMT
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Post by stevegm on Apr 27, 2024 10:37:05 GMT
I still can't really believe the Sheldon Keefe press conference and the Marchand stuff. I think a good debate is in how Monty might react to that. Does he A: Play the game and point out to the media that: -the PPs were 5-3 Leafs. -Matthews drew several penalties going down very easily, if we want to talk about embellishment. -Domi got away with knocking Swayman to the ice during a break (can you imagine if Marchand did that?). -Bertuzzi is no more deserving of the officials benefit of the doubt than Marchand - he and Domi have been following him around all series trying to goad the B's leading scorer into trouble. The officials see it, and are unlikely to single one guy out when they tangle up. -Gratuitously note that we should respect the officials more -- they are have a tough job and are not getting duped out there. Note that Keefe's complaining about the officiating is disrespectful and they're too professional to be manipulated like that. or B: Stay quiet and leave the gamesmanship and whining on the Toronto side, smile, and assume that the officiating crew will be more annoyed by a coach openly implying that they're suckers, or biased or unaware, than they would be influenced to reactively watch Marchand hawkishly in Game 4. B is not an option. gamesmanship is a big part of the game. the only conversation is "how" your excellent points above get articulated, and how often.
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Post by islamorada on Apr 27, 2024 11:34:04 GMT
I've not seen a commentary on the Marchand en goal. What I saw - March and Bertuzzi wrestling, both go down. But March springs back to his feet outhustling Bert by 50 country miles. Then he pots the en. Could Bertuzzi do that under any circumstance late in the 3rd? I haven't seen it commented on. But that fitness level plus hustle is outclassing the Leafs totally.The fitness level comment is spot on. He is a small player who is able to utilize size with agility and balance.
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Post by RichHillOntario on Apr 27, 2024 15:19:41 GMT
My God, that was a dumb response from Keefe, eh, steve? He's actually trying to compare Domi's purposeful incident with Swayman during a TV time out, no less to the bodily contact that happens during the course of a game? And equating it to his club having the same influence on Boston's thoughts is just so dumb. Next December when sports broadcasts do their "Top Whatevers Of The Year," if a segment is created for "Top 10 Stupid Comments Of 2024," that's got to be in there. It reeked of him having no logical response to Montgomery so he reverted to the adult version of the juvenile "I know you are but what am I?"
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Post by Fletcher on Apr 27, 2024 17:16:51 GMT
My God, that was a dumb response from Keefe, eh, steve? He's actually trying to compare Domi's purposeful incident with Swayman during a TV time out, no less to the bodily contact that happens during the course of a game? And equating it to his club having the same influence on Boston's thoughts is just so dumb. Next December when sports broadcasts do their "Top Whatevers Of The Year," if a segment is created for "Top 10 Stupid Comments Of 2024," that's got to be in there. It reeked of him having no logical response to Montgomery so he reverted to the adult version of the juvenile "I know you are but what am I?" There's not really a great response to the question "is somebody in your head? Or at least, a strong denial isn't the way to go, because...that's evidence of them being in your head. Keefe's answer is too long and too defensive. If he wasn't in your head, he is now. He should have laughed it off. He doth protest too much... Reminds me of Freddy Quimby being asked in court if he would really lose his temper over something as trivial as the pronunciation of Chowder.
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Post by Fletcher on Apr 28, 2024 3:45:33 GMT
By the way, as someone who doesn't get a lot of Toronto media exposure, I'm kind of taken aback the more I pay attention. Is it always this way? Some of the finger pointing is so far-fetched and bizarre. I just watched a 5 minute news segment essentially blaming the Leaf fans for not being louder at the game. Say what you will about the fans, but it's hard to get loud and crazy when you get worked in the 3rd period, and the huge goal you've been waiting for is answered 20 seconds later by the Bruins. That'll deflate any building. Then...blaming the refs, blaming Nylander (some merit there, I guess), blaming the pressure on the players, bad luck, etc. They seem like they're one step away from blaming astrological signs. And...for God's sake, they could easily win the series if they just do the right things. It all seems kind of like a guy who's girlfriend dumps him for being an all-around asshole, and he's rationalizing to his friends about how crazy she must have been. Yes, Fletch, it is this way. All the time. Has been for ages. It likely doesn't help the cause for some slim form of objectivity when several former Leafs like Kypreos, Mike Johnson, Jeff O' Neill and Carlo Colaiacovo are threaded through local sports media with their Leaf inclinations, overtly or otherwise. I don't know what it's like in other cities in Canada and the States with their organizations but this hockey team is a year-round industry and they haven't won a championship in over one half of a century! There are over 20 Leaf-focussed podcasts around, everything from Gluttons For Punishment Toronto Maple Leafs and NHL Podcast, Leafs Guy Podcast to Ladies Talkin' Leafs, described as "The definitive Toronto Maple Leafs Podcast created by women for women. Join Chris and Syl twice a month, as they passionately discuss the latest Blue and White buzz, and share their unique insights on hockey and everything else rockin' Leafs Nation. Go Leafs Go!" Even our family's lawyer co-hosts his own Leaf talk show on Zoomer Radio. Great guy but on his airwaves, the Lufas can do no wrong. I've read descriptions of Scotiabank Arena as funereal. Maybe it is because of the team being more of a "white collar" experience with the blame placed on the corporate crowd in the lower bowl Gucchi Row section. I know some folks who have gone and watched large sections near them not watch much of the game, be on their phones and be late returning to their seats. I doubt corporate presence is the only influencer. We always hear about the prices of tickets and that most tickets are only available at jacked-up prices through the secondary ticket market, which MLSE have never shown any interest in getting under control. And why would they if they know some folks out there will pay anything to watch a game and buy their merch? When you are having to shell out several hundred bucks to attend a Tuesday night game against Columbus, if you can afford it and that is your in-person Loafs experience for the year, you're probably more invested in watching the game than turning the night out into a party. I know I would. A couple of months ago, a friend drove from Toronto to Ottawa to visit his son who had moved there for work. He and his wife were going to stay for the weekend and while there, were going to catch a Sens game. His boy bought three tickets each for $30.00. Here in Toronto, no Leaf ticket is that cheap. Not even close. It might help explain why there are so many of their fans at Sens home games. Quick story: Back in 2016, a buddy got hold of some tickets through work and asked if I wanted to go with him to see the Leaves play Nashville. We go and our seats were up in the 300 level of the rink: high for some but I was cool with them. They were free. During the game, I was yelling "YOU SUCK, RIBERO" every time he touched the puck. I wasn't obnoxious. I wasn't rude or profance. I was shouting against a player on the OTHER team. The mixture of looks I received were a cross between "Uh, oh! Loud black guy means trouble. HE'S GOT A GUN! " to "Willl this guy shut up?" I was among 18,000 other people, man. I didn't reduce my hollering at Ribero but I did yell at other players and not just him. I mean, we're at a game with thousands of people. What's often odd for me is how Toronto fans pack AWAY rinks in Montreal, Ottawa, Edmonton, Winnipeg, Calgary and Vancouver and shout the place down. They seem to make more noise in other arenas than down at Scotiabank. You can't help but see and hear them when they're shown on broadcasts. I think it's the same in both Florida cities as there's a healthy amount of Canadians in Tampa and Sunrise, I believe. Is it jus the economics of the price of ticket prices in those places? The abundance of straight up Loaf fans? The responses from you and Book on this are both revealing and fascinating. I've lived in a number of different big sports cities. I appreciate Boston (while being far from perfect) for having fans and media that are very, very honest about their teams, sometimes brutally. That tough love honesty does not really exist in Denver, but the level of the delusion in Toronto does seem to be off the charts. I love the Ribiero story, by the way.
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Post by bookboy007 on Apr 28, 2024 16:53:31 GMT
Yes, Fletch, it is this way. All the time. Has been for ages. It likely doesn't help the cause for some slim form of objectivity when several former Leafs like Kypreos, Mike Johnson, Jeff O' Neill and Carlo Colaiacovo are threaded through local sports media with their Leaf inclinations, overtly or otherwise. I don't know what it's like in other cities in Canada and the States with their organizations but this hockey team is a year-round industry and they haven't won a championship in over one half of a century! There are over 20 Leaf-focussed podcasts around, everything from Gluttons For Punishment Toronto Maple Leafs and NHL Podcast, Leafs Guy Podcast to Ladies Talkin' Leafs, described as "The definitive Toronto Maple Leafs Podcast created by women for women. Join Chris and Syl twice a month, as they passionately discuss the latest Blue and White buzz, and share their unique insights on hockey and everything else rockin' Leafs Nation. Go Leafs Go!" Even our family's lawyer co-hosts his own Leaf talk show on Zoomer Radio. Great guy but on his airwaves, the Lufas can do no wrong. I've read descriptions of Scotiabank Arena as funereal. Maybe it is because of the team being more of a "white collar" experience with the blame placed on the corporate crowd in the lower bowl Gucchi Row section. I know some folks who have gone and watched large sections near them not watch much of the game, be on their phones and be late returning to their seats. I doubt corporate presence is the only influencer. We always hear about the prices of tickets and that most tickets are only available at jacked-up prices through the secondary ticket market, which MLSE have never shown any interest in getting under control. And why would they if they know some folks out there will pay anything to watch a game and buy their merch? When you are having to shell out several hundred bucks to attend a Tuesday night game against Columbus, if you can afford it and that is your in-person Loafs experience for the year, you're probably more invested in watching the game than turning the night out into a party. I know I would. A couple of months ago, a friend drove from Toronto to Ottawa to visit his son who had moved there for work. He and his wife were going to stay for the weekend and while there, were going to catch a Sens game. His boy bought three tickets each for $30.00. Here in Toronto, no Leaf ticket is that cheap. Not even close. It might help explain why there are so many of their fans at Sens home games. Quick story: Back in 2016, a buddy got hold of some tickets through work and asked if I wanted to go with him to see the Leaves play Nashville. We go and our seats were up in the 300 level of the rink: high for some but I was cool with them. They were free. During the game, I was yelling "YOU SUCK, RIBERO" every time he touched the puck. I wasn't obnoxious. I wasn't rude or profance. I was shouting against a player on the OTHER team. The mixture of looks I received were a cross between "Uh, oh! Loud black guy means trouble. HE'S GOT A GUN! " to "Willl this guy shut up?" I was among 18,000 other people, man. I didn't reduce my hollering at Ribero but I did yell at other players and not just him. I mean, we're at a game with thousands of people. What's often odd for me is how Toronto fans pack AWAY rinks in Montreal, Ottawa, Edmonton, Winnipeg, Calgary and Vancouver and shout the place down. They seem to make more noise in other arenas than down at Scotiabank. You can't help but see and hear them when they're shown on broadcasts. I think it's the same in both Florida cities as there's a healthy amount of Canadians in Tampa and Sunrise, I believe. Is it jus the economics of the price of ticket prices in those places? The abundance of straight up Loaf fans? The responses from you and Book on this are both revealing and fascinating. I've lived in a number of different big sports cities. I appreciate Boston (while being far from perfect) for having fans and media that are very, very honest about their teams, sometimes brutally. That tough love honesty does not really exist in Denver, but the level of the delusion in Toronto does seem to be off the charts. I love the Ribiero story, by the way. What's funny is the "there's no one more vicious than a jilted lover" element we saw after the second last night. They called the Leafs out for both trying hard enough and said the effort was inacceptable. Because they heard the fans boo. So the fans now want to be told "you're right. The problem is these players disresepcting the Blue and White! We should pillory them!" Summers are funny because they start with a new round of paper bag memes and over time the conversation goes from trade every one of these losers, fire all the suits! To they really just need their goalies to be healthy and a better third line LW because otherwise this is God's team! AutoCup!
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Post by RichHillOntario on Apr 29, 2024 2:17:43 GMT
Yes, Fletch, it is this way. All the time. Has been for ages. It likely doesn't help the cause for some slim form of objectivity when several former Leafs like Kypreos, Mike Johnson, Jeff O' Neill and Carlo Colaiacovo are threaded through local sports media with their Leaf inclinations, overtly or otherwise. I don't know what it's like in other cities in Canada and the States with their organizations but this hockey team is a year-round industry and they haven't won a championship in over one half of a century! There are over 20 Leaf-focussed podcasts around, everything from Gluttons For Punishment Toronto Maple Leafs and NHL Podcast, Leafs Guy Podcast to Ladies Talkin' Leafs, described as "The definitive Toronto Maple Leafs Podcast created by women for women. Join Chris and Syl twice a month, as they passionately discuss the latest Blue and White buzz, and share their unique insights on hockey and everything else rockin' Leafs Nation. Go Leafs Go!" Even our family's lawyer co-hosts his own Leaf talk show on Zoomer Radio. Great guy but on his airwaves, the Lufas can do no wrong. I've read descriptions of Scotiabank Arena as funereal. Maybe it is because of the team being more of a "white collar" experience with the blame placed on the corporate crowd in the lower bowl Gucchi Row section. I know some folks who have gone and watched large sections near them not watch much of the game, be on their phones and be late returning to their seats. I doubt corporate presence is the only influencer. We always hear about the prices of tickets and that most tickets are only available at jacked-up prices through the secondary ticket market, which MLSE have never shown any interest in getting under control. And why would they if they know some folks out there will pay anything to watch a game and buy their merch? When you are having to shell out several hundred bucks to attend a Tuesday night game against Columbus, if you can afford it and that is your in-person Loafs experience for the year, you're probably more invested in watching the game than turning the night out into a party. I know I would. A couple of months ago, a friend drove from Toronto to Ottawa to visit his son who had moved there for work. He and his wife were going to stay for the weekend and while there, were going to catch a Sens game. His boy bought three tickets each for $30.00. Here in Toronto, no Leaf ticket is that cheap. Not even close. It might help explain why there are so many of their fans at Sens home games. Quick story: Back in 2016, a buddy got hold of some tickets through work and asked if I wanted to go with him to see the Leaves play Nashville. We go and our seats were up in the 300 level of the rink: high for some but I was cool with them. They were free. During the game, I was yelling "YOU SUCK, RIBERO" every time he touched the puck. I wasn't obnoxious. I wasn't rude or profance. I was shouting against a player on the OTHER team. The mixture of looks I received were a cross between "Uh, oh! Loud black guy means trouble. HE'S GOT A GUN! " to "Willl this guy shut up?" I was among 18,000 other people, man. I didn't reduce my hollering at Ribero but I did yell at other players and not just him. I mean, we're at a game with thousands of people. What's often odd for me is how Toronto fans pack AWAY rinks in Montreal, Ottawa, Edmonton, Winnipeg, Calgary and Vancouver and shout the place down. They seem to make more noise in other arenas than down at Scotiabank. You can't help but see and hear them when they're shown on broadcasts. I think it's the same in both Florida cities as there's a healthy amount of Canadians in Tampa and Sunrise, I believe. Is it jus the economics of the price of ticket prices in those places? The abundance of straight up Loaf fans? The responses from you and Book on this are both revealing and fascinating. I've lived in a number of different big sports cities. I appreciate Boston (while being far from perfect) for having fans and media that are very, very honest about their teams, sometimes brutally. That tough love honesty does not really exist in Denver, but the level of the delusion in Toronto does seem to be off the charts. I love the Ribiero story, by the way. The fans of some sports cities have time-worn reps, Fletch. Like in Philly with their's. What is Denver's? I don't read hardly anything about their fans aside from seeing how loud they are for the Broncos at Empire Field at Mile High.
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Post by RichHillOntario on Apr 29, 2024 4:35:07 GMT
Yes, Fletch, it is this way. All the time. Has been for ages. It likely doesn't help the cause for some slim form of objectivity when several former Leafs like Kypreos, Mike Johnson, Jeff O' Neill and Carlo Colaiacovo are threaded through local sports media with their Leaf inclinations, overtly or otherwise. I don't know what it's like in other cities in Canada and the States with their organizations but this hockey team is a year-round industry and they haven't won a championship in over one half of a century! There are over 20 Leaf-focussed podcasts around, everything from Gluttons For Punishment Toronto Maple Leafs and NHL Podcast, Leafs Guy Podcast to Ladies Talkin' Leafs, described as "The definitive Toronto Maple Leafs Podcast created by women for women. Join Chris and Syl twice a month, as they passionately discuss the latest Blue and White buzz, and share their unique insights on hockey and everything else rockin' Leafs Nation. Go Leafs Go!" Even our family's lawyer co-hosts his own Leaf talk show on Zoomer Radio. Great guy but on his airwaves, the Lufas can do no wrong. I've read descriptions of Scotiabank Arena as funereal. Maybe it is because of the team being more of a "white collar" experience with the blame placed on the corporate crowd in the lower bowl Gucchi Row section. I know some folks who have gone and watched large sections near them not watch much of the game, be on their phones and be late returning to their seats. I doubt corporate presence is the only influencer. We always hear about the prices of tickets and that most tickets are only available at jacked-up prices through the secondary ticket market, which MLSE have never shown any interest in getting under control. And why would they if they know some folks out there will pay anything to watch a game and buy their merch? When you are having to shell out several hundred bucks to attend a Tuesday night game against Columbus, if you can afford it and that is your in-person Loafs experience for the year, you're probably more invested in watching the game than turning the night out into a party. I know I would. A couple of months ago, a friend drove from Toronto to Ottawa to visit his son who had moved there for work. He and his wife were going to stay for the weekend and while there, were going to catch a Sens game. His boy bought three tickets each for $30.00. Here in Toronto, no Leaf ticket is that cheap. Not even close. It might help explain why there are so many of their fans at Sens home games. Quick story: Back in 2016, a buddy got hold of some tickets through work and asked if I wanted to go with him to see the Leaves play Nashville. We go and our seats were up in the 300 level of the rink: high for some but I was cool with them. They were free. During the game, I was yelling "YOU SUCK, RIBERO" every time he touched the puck. I wasn't obnoxious. I wasn't rude or profance. I was shouting against a player on the OTHER team. The mixture of looks I received were a cross between "Uh, oh! Loud black guy means trouble. HE'S GOT A GUN! " to "Willl this guy shut up?" I was among 18,000 other people, man. I didn't reduce my hollering at Ribero but I did yell at other players and not just him. I mean, we're at a game with thousands of people. What's often odd for me is how Toronto fans pack AWAY rinks in Montreal, Ottawa, Edmonton, Winnipeg, Calgary and Vancouver and shout the place down. They seem to make more noise in other arenas than down at Scotiabank. You can't help but see and hear them when they're shown on broadcasts. I think it's the same in both Florida cities as there's a healthy amount of Canadians in Tampa and Sunrise, I believe. Is it jus the economics of the price of ticket prices in those places? The abundance of straight up Loaf fans? The responses from you and Book on this are both revealing and fascinating. I've lived in a number of different big sports cities. I appreciate Boston (while being far from perfect) for having fans and media that are very, very honest about their teams, sometimes brutally. That tough love honesty does not really exist in Denver, but the level of the delusion in Toronto does seem to be off the charts. I love the Ribiero story, by the way. This is Norman Rumack, Fletch. He also went by the nickname "Stormin' Norman" as a take on General Norman Schwarzkopf and also called himself "The Late Night Vampire" because his show came on at night. This guy was a popular on-air personality for the all-sports radio station in Toronto known as THE FAN 590 in the early 90s. He and Joe "Foghorn" Bowen, also of THE FAN, were the primary pushers of Leaf consciousness back then. Some folks remember Bowen's ridiculous "Bless you, boys" call when Nik Borchevsky sank the winner in OT of Game 7 of the Eastern Conference Final against the Wings. Rumack's gig was on another level as this guy would be combative with callers who rang up with an opposing view to his own - especially against the club he called "God's Team In The NHL," the Loads. This is the same guy who famously said he wouldn't trade Toronto captain Wendel Clark for the reigning Hart Trophy winner, Sergei Fedorov who was at the peak of his abilities. If anyone called in with a vigourous opinion contrary to his, listeners would hear a loud siren blaring over his recorded voice shouting the words "HAMMER HEAD ALERT! HAMMER HEAD ALERT!" then he'd have a shouting match with them and or cut them off. Even had HAMMER HEAD ALERT T-shirts made. You were a HAMMER HEAD if you opposed him and his views. Rumack was at the forefront way back then of the shit we hear now.
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Post by bookboy007 on Apr 29, 2024 13:58:15 GMT
The responses from you and Book on this are both revealing and fascinating. I've lived in a number of different big sports cities. I appreciate Boston (while being far from perfect) for having fans and media that are very, very honest about their teams, sometimes brutally. That tough love honesty does not really exist in Denver, but the level of the delusion in Toronto does seem to be off the charts. I love the Ribiero story, by the way. This is Norman Rumack, Fletch. He also went by the nickname "Stormin' Norman" as a take on General Norman Schwarzkopf and also called himself "The Late Night Vampire" because his show came on at night. This guy was a popular on-air personality for the all-sports radio station in Toronto known as THE FAN 590 in the early 90s. He and Joe "Foghorn" Bowen, also of THE FAN, were the primary pushers of Leaf consciousness back then. Some folks remember Bowen's ridiculous "Bless you, boys" call when Nik Borchevsky sank the winner in OT of Game 7 of the Eastern Conference Final against the Wings. Rumack's gig was on another level as this guy would be combative with callers who rang up with an opposing view to his own - especially against the club he called "God's Team In The NHL," the Loads. This is the same guy who famously said he wouldn't trade Toronto captain Wendel Clark for the reigning Hart Trophy winner, Sergei Fedorov who was at the peak of his abilities. If anyone called in with a vigourous opinion contrary to his, listeners would hear a loud siren blaring over his recorded voice shouting the words "HAMMER HEAD ALERT! HAMMER HEAD ALERT!" then he'd have a shouting match with them and or cut them off. Even had HAMMER HEAD ALERT T-shirts made. You were a HAMMER HEAD if you opposed him and his views. Rumack was at the forefront way back then of the shit we hear now. LOL! I had forgotten the Hammer Head Alert. With the classic warning siren pause between Hammer head and alert.... I don't think I'd ever seen a picture of the guy. But this seems about right.
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Post by bookboy007 on Apr 29, 2024 14:18:04 GMT
The responses from you and Book on this are both revealing and fascinating. I've lived in a number of different big sports cities. I appreciate Boston (while being far from perfect) for having fans and media that are very, very honest about their teams, sometimes brutally. That tough love honesty does not really exist in Denver, but the level of the delusion in Toronto does seem to be off the charts. I love the Ribiero story, by the way. What's funny is the "there's no one more vicious than a jilted lover" element we saw after the second last night. They called the Leafs out for both trying hard enough and said the effort was inacceptable. Because they heard the fans boo. So the fans now want to be told "you're right. The problem is these players disresepcting the Blue and White! We should pillory them!" Summers are funny because they start with a new round of paper bag memes and over time the conversation goes from trade every one of these losers, fire all the suits! To they really just need their goalies to be healthy and a better third line LW because otherwise this is God's team! AutoCup! I posted this yesterday, early afternoon, so still in the first 24 hours post-game 4. Since then? I can't tell you how many things I've seen and heard where the formerly faithful are eating the Leafs for lunch. Nick Kypreos on some podcast stating what non-Leaf fans have been saying for years - you have 3 of the 4 biggest contracts on one team, and they're all skilled forwards with zero grit or sandpaper to their game. They bring a ton of skill but nothing else. A channel interviewing Leafs fans coming out of Game 4 and the fans saying "I paid $800 to see no passion, no urgency, no pride - just a total embarrassment" and "Where's Reaves? Do something, Reaves! This is when you were supposed to bring value. Go run Pastrnak. Go run Marchand. Do something." That last one made me laugh. Who in their right mind thought Reaves was going to be an asset in the playoffs? So far, the Bruins have scored the first goal in 2 of the 4 games by taking advantage of that line and specifically of bad plays by Reaves. Willard must me embarrassed. But the guy who is getting just roasted is Marner. "Just fucking play, bro. This isn't junior hockey" is going on T-Shirts. All sorts of highlights circulating of him passing up battles in the corners. And commentators in Toronto (especially on the FAN590 - or whatever they call it now that it's part of Sportsnet) are being particularly and uncharacteristically blunt. Sid Sixiero had a rant that went something like: "It's time to pay back everything you've been given. Toronto has given Marner everything. No hometown discount on his contract. Played him with Matthews. Fired Babcock. Protected him from the worst of the criticism. It's time. It's time to start paying all of that back. Fans can see it with Matthews and they can see it with Nylander who has consistently been the best of the three in the playoffs. But they don't see it with Marner. And it's time." I keep getting facebook reels pushed at me with leaf podcasters saying "Get this guy off the team!" That's gotta be tough. And you hope it's good for the Bruins - hope they're right and he collapses under the pressure rather than going old school and coming up with the kind of effort to prove people wrong. But this isn't the first time that it's been toxic for the hometown kid in Toronto. Both Big Head Bob and 32 Turds have talked about this in years past. Marner is a typical Toronto hockey nerd. He can't stop himself from reading the media, following the podcasts, asking what people are saying about him, and then not being very resilient if they're saying critical things. Freidmann compared him to Matthews - Matthews is better at letting it roll off of him because he's from Arizona. The Toronto hockey media is alien to him, and so he can shrug off the ridiculousness. Marner can't. He's not tough enough mentally. I don't want Boston to make any mistakes that let him crawl out of the pit. Don't do anything differently because you don't have to. Keep defending well. Let him get frustrated. Watch your stick so he can't suck for penalties. Hopefully, in his desperation, he takes bigger risks and you can get one off of a turnover, because I think if that happens, it breaks Marner's will for good this series and probably sinks Toronto with him.
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Post by RichHillOntario on May 1, 2024 22:31:21 GMT
This is Norman Rumack, Fletch. He also went by the nickname "Stormin' Norman" as a take on General Norman Schwarzkopf and also called himself "The Late Night Vampire" because his show came on at night. This guy was a popular on-air personality for the all-sports radio station in Toronto known as THE FAN 590 in the early 90s. He and Joe "Foghorn" Bowen, also of THE FAN, were the primary pushers of Leaf consciousness back then. Some folks remember Bowen's ridiculous "Bless you, boys" call when Nik Borchevsky sank the winner in OT of Game 7 of the Eastern Conference Final against the Wings. Rumack's gig was on another level as this guy would be combative with callers who rang up with an opposing view to his own - especially against the club he called "God's Team In The NHL," the Loads. This is the same guy who famously said he wouldn't trade Toronto captain Wendel Clark for the reigning Hart Trophy winner, Sergei Fedorov who was at the peak of his abilities. If anyone called in with a vigourous opinion contrary to his, listeners would hear a loud siren blaring over his recorded voice shouting the words "HAMMER HEAD ALERT! HAMMER HEAD ALERT!" then he'd have a shouting match with them and or cut them off. Even had HAMMER HEAD ALERT T-shirts made. You were a HAMMER HEAD if you opposed him and his views. Rumack was at the forefront way back then of the shit we hear now. LOL! I had forgotten the Hammer Head Alert. With the classic warning siren pause between Hammer head and alert.... I don't think I'd ever seen a picture of the guy. But this seems about right. That's him. Arguably, his popularity during that time might have been second only to Bob "The Franchise" McCown. I think some regulars like Mauro From Maple, would call in just to wind him up by trashing topics he held dear: Loafs, Syracuse University which was his alma mater, Wendel Clark, Jack Morris. As soon as the siren would go off, you knew what was coming. I don't know how accurate some accounts are but I had read he had fallen on very tough times - allegedly including attempted suicides. I hope they aren't true.
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