The #2 Center Role

[NAS]

The more I look at the B's lineup, the more it sticks out that they are paying the #2 center slot millions too much.  The first and second line center make about $14M combined.  That's just too much.  Having a #1 center at $7.25M is good.  Having a #2 center at $6.875M sucks.  If Bergeron's that awesome, make him the #1 and trade Krejci.  If Bergeron can't play the #1 role, he shouldn't be pulling down that much dough.

Trading Bregeron seems like one of the worst ideas ever, so I would support moving Krejci.

[willieoree]

Jun 15, 2015 12:07:51 GMT NAS said:

The more I look at the B's lineup, the more it sticks out that they are paying the #2 center slot millions too much.  The first and second line center make about $14M combined.  That's just too much.  Having a #1 center at $7.25M is good.  Having a #2 center at $6.875M sucks.  If Bergeron's that awesome, make him the #1 and trade Krejci.  If Bergeron can't play the #1 role, he shouldn't be pulling down that much dough.

Trading Bregeron seems like one of the worst ideas ever, so I would support moving Krejci.

As would I. As have I.

[Deleted]

A possible scenario..........trade Krejci.......Beregeron gets hurt.........and what are the Bruins left with at center ?

Although I understand the thought of not liking having $14M wrapped up with 2 players at center..........they're also the Bruins 2 best players when playing well.

Decreasing the depth at center is not a very smart thing to do unless there's a plan in place to replenish it. Strength up the middle is an important aspect for good teams to have.

I'm against it unless there was something of very good value at center coming back the Bruins way.

[UtahGetMeTwo]

Look how the team plays when Krejci is hurt or out of the lieup. Look how great the Bruins play when he is in the lineup.

This is dependent on having a real good right-wing.

[islamorada]

Bergeron or Toews has been written about many times here and the old BDC. Most would take Toews. Toews is a number one center. So why can't Bergeron be one as well. They have similar qualities as players. To wit: If in fact Lucic is retained along with a more high octane Hamilton with the likes of 12 million +/- then dangle Krejci in the trade market. My only reservation is this in fact a "blow up" or a "rebuild"? I think if Krejci is traded it is a blow up. Ru roh ren rwe rook rat Rask. Now that is like saying Crawford.

[willieoree]

As for Krejci where and for whom?

I'm trading David Krejci for Brent Burns tomorrow. A Bruins team that opens this next season with Rask in goal and Chara, Hamilton, Burns on defence, becomes - if not an insta-contender - a beast in the east.

As for replacing Krejci at #2 Centre - well, some are not gonna like it - but I think it's Joe Thornton. He is cheaper than Krejci ('I hate the cap world' that this is the first condition) with a half-a-million dollar cheaper cap hit. Thornton is more durable (plays all 82 games), he is way more proficient on the face-off dot than Krejci (58% to 53%). Thornton, routinely and consistently puts up more points.

Thornton might be gotten from San Jose for cheaper (ie less than core players and/or prospects and/or picks - mostly because Wilson has tried unsuccessfully and embarrassingly to move him and might invite such a solution). Also, Boston is one place Joe might waive his NTC for. (Dupont's gone)

I know the knock on Thornton is that he is 35 years old (Krejci 29) and that he hasn't won a Cup - some would see his age as a detriment, but he would bring some much-needed leadership to the ranks. As for The Cup, I think a trade to Boston would make him supremely motivated, to succeed, to win a Cup.

So...I guess, yea, I'm suggesting a back-to-the-future, Boston-San Jose blockbuster.

As for who from Boston, and where?

Well, if they can move out Krejci ($7.25 mil cap hit), Kelly (3.0), Smith (3.42) and Seidenberg (4.0) - that's 17.67 million of cap space. Thornton (6.75) and Burns (5.76), together make a cap hit of 12.51 million.

The Bruins could become better and add 5 million dollars of cap space with which to help pay Dougie Hamilton.

[jmwalters]

Personally I am fine with it. There are worse ways to spend money then on a perennial Selke nominee and legit #1 center. For example, EDM has over $8mill invested in Purcell and Pouliot combined and either of Bergeron and Kreji are twice the player they are. A team pays for quality and the hope is they deliver. no team wins with a roster filled with ELC's and minimum wage role players. Good players get paid well and I would rather have them than a Purcell or Pouliot (or both) any day.

That said, if a fantastic offer for Krejci came DS' way he would be a fool not to consider it.

[50belowzero]

Jun 15, 2015 13:24:19 GMT jmwalters said:

Personally I am fine with it. There are worse ways to spend money then on a perennial Selke nominee and legit #1 center. For example, EDM has over $8mill invested in Purcell and Pouliot combined and either of Bergeron and Kreji are twice the player they are. A team pays for quality and the hope is they deliver. no team wins with a roster filled with ELC's and minimum wage role players. Good players get paid well and I would rather have them than a Purcell or Pouliot (or both) any day.

That said, if a fantastic offer for Krejci came DS' way he would be a fool not to consider it.

You aren't actually going to try and pass off a couple of Boldmoves free agent signings to strengthen your argument are you? Thats like using a cinder block as a life preserver, bad, bad idea! 

[jmwalters]

Jun 15, 2015 13:28:17 GMT 50belowzero said:

Jun 15, 2015 13:24:19 GMT jmwalters said:

Personally I am fine with it. There are worse ways to spend money then on a perennial Selke nominee and legit #1 center. For example, EDM has over $8mill invested in Purcell and Pouliot combined and either of Bergeron and Kreji are twice the player they are. A team pays for quality and the hope is they deliver. no team wins with a roster filled with ELC's and minimum wage role players. Good players get paid well and I would rather have them than a Purcell or Pouliot (or both) any day.

That said, if a fantastic offer for Krejci came DS' way he would be a fool not to consider it.

You aren't actually going to try and pass off a couple of Boldmoves free agent signings to strengthen your argument are you? Thats like using a cinder block as a life preserver, bad, bad idea! 

lol....nah. PC can clean up that mess.

But if you were him, what would you prefer Krecji or Purcell and Pouliot? I think it is a no brainer.

[The OC]

I completely disagree. If I'm building a team, two of the best players (and thus likely highest paid players) are going to be center #1 and center #2. If you look at league history, almost every champ has had an awesome 1-2 punch down the middle, with it very often being the best players on the team. Gretz/Mess, Mario/Francis, Modano/Nieu, Sakic/Forsberg, Dats/Zett, Yze/Fed, Richards/Vinnie, Staal/BrindtheBod, Cros/Malk, Kop/Carter, DK/PB. Over the last several decades of hockey the only real exceptions have been NJ, the Ducks and to some extent Chicago, though the Blackhawks have used some good players such as Sharp down the middle during their wins; and the other two were noted for having very strong 3rd line middle men.

The Bruins combo also isn't overly expensive for the results they've delivered. They've shown in post-season that they can match up well in overall game against the league's best star centers and 14 million is cheap when comparing to more costly duos like the $19 million Penguins pair. It's enough money to upgrade an AHL fill-in to Lucic.

With the current style of hockey played in the NHL, the best bang for your buck is having premium centers. Their important role defensively and role in controlling the play at both ends is critical. The only other option I explore is having a surplus of premium D. A superstar Defenseman can play more of the game and can influence a lot of the play. Indeed, the teams that have been exceptions to the 1-2 center punch have often had 2 superstar D which meant teams were almost always dealing with Pronger or Neidermeyer or Neidermeyer or Stevens.

If a dealing of Krejci could land a guy like Weber, I would entertain that. But I wouldn't move DK to plug that spot with a weaker pivot.

[MrHulot]

JOE THORNTON? Really?

Willie, do you really want to replace David Krejci (who thrives in the playoffs) with a notorious underachiever?

And "much-needed leadership" from Jumbo Joe, someone who has failed as team captain in Boston and in San Jose?

[willieoree]

Jun 15, 2015 13:40:25 GMT MrHulot said:

JOE THORNTON? Really?

Willie, do you really want to replace David Krejci (who thrives in the playoffs) with a notorious underachiever?

And "much-needed leadership" from Jumbo Joe, someone who has failed as team captain in Boston and in San Jose?

Yup.

[willieoree]

Jun 15, 2015 13:33:30 GMT The OC said:

I completely disagree. If I'm building a team, two of the best players (and thus likely highest paid players) are going to be center #1 and center #2. If you look at league history, almost every champ has had an awesome 1-2 punch down the middle, with it very often being the best players on the team. Gretz/Mess, Mario/Francis, Modano/Nieu, Sakic/Forsberg, Dats/Zett, Yze/Fed, Richards/Vinnie, Staal/BrindtheBod, Cros/Malk, Kop/Carter, DK/PB. Over the last several decades of hockey the only real exceptions have been NJ, the Ducks and to some extent Chicago, though the Blackhawks have used some good players such as Sharp down the middle during their wins; and the other two were noted for having very strong 3rd line middle men.

The Bruins combo also isn't overly expensive for the results they've delivered. They've shown in post-season that they can match up well in overall game against the league's best star centers and 14 million is cheap when comparing to more costly duos like the $19 million Penguins pair. It's enough money to upgrade an AHL fill-in to Lucic.

With the current style of hockey played in the NHL, the best bang for your buck is having premium centers. Their important role defensively and role in controlling the play at both ends is critical. The only other option I explore is having a surplus of premium D. A superstar Defenseman can play more of the game and can influence a lot of the play. Indeed, the teams that have been exceptions to the 1-2 center punch have often had 2 superstar D which meant teams were almost always dealing with Pronger or Neidermeyer or Neidermeyer or Stevens.

If a dealing of Krejci could land a guy like Weber, I would entertain that. But I wouldn't move DK to plug that spot with a weaker pivot.

Totally agree.  it is accepted, almost as law, that for success in the NHL you need two horses down the middle.

[willieoree]

Jun 15, 2015 13:47:40 GMT willieoree said:

Jun 15, 2015 13:33:30 GMT The OC said:

I completely disagree. If I'm building a team, two of the best players (and thus likely highest paid players) are going to be center #1 and center #2. If you look at league history, almost every champ has had an awesome 1-2 punch down the middle, with it very often being the best players on the team. Gretz/Mess, Mario/Francis, Modano/Nieu, Sakic/Forsberg, Dats/Zett, Yze/Fed, Richards/Vinnie, Staal/BrindtheBod, Cros/Malk, Kop/Carter, DK/PB. Over the last several decades of hockey the only real exceptions have been NJ, the Ducks and to some extent Chicago, though the Blackhawks have used some good players such as Sharp down the middle during their wins; and the other two were noted for having very strong 3rd line middle men.

The Bruins combo also isn't overly expensive for the results they've delivered. They've shown in post-season that they can match up well in overall game against the league's best star centers and 14 million is cheap when comparing to more costly duos like the $19 million Penguins pair. It's enough money to upgrade an AHL fill-in to Lucic.

With the current style of hockey played in the NHL, the best bang for your buck is having premium centers. Their important role defensively and role in controlling the play at both ends is critical. The only other option I explore is having a surplus of premium D. A superstar Defenseman can play more of the game and can influence a lot of the play. Indeed, the teams that have been exceptions to the 1-2 center punch have often had 2 superstar D which meant teams were almost always dealing with Pronger or Neidermeyer or Neidermeyer or Stevens.

If a dealing of Krejci could land a guy like Weber, I would entertain that. But I wouldn't move DK to plug that spot with a weaker pivot.

Totally agree.  it is accepted, almost as law, that for success in the NHL you need two horses down the middle.

...it's just that 'my' 2nd horse isn't David Krejci

[Fletcher]

In the trade fantasy thread, I proposed trading Krejci for a package with Minnesota that would include Charlie Coyle, who's a lot younger and can play center. If there is a good return on a Krejci deal, I'd be okay with making the move. You need another center coming back for depth though, I think. With some savings there you can potentially add a 3-4 defensmen, and then hope to God that Spooner of April-2015 was the what we can expect moving forward.

[The OC]

Jun 15, 2015 14:05:46 GMT Fletcher said:

In the trade fantasy thread, I proposed trading Krejci for a package with Minnesota that would include Charlie Coyle, who's a lot younger and can play center. If there is a good return on a Krejci deal, I'd be okay with making the move. You need another center coming back for depth though, I think. With some savings there you can potentially add a 3-4 defensmen, and then hope to God that Spooner of April-2015 was the what we can expect moving forward.

I'm pretty confident in Spooner's a ability to continue to keep scoring like he did at the end.  Actually, what I saw of him the season before and what he'd done in the A- had me expecting he'd make the team out of camp and put up 40+ points.  I think he'll do great this year.  He's also at the same age when DK established himself.  Where I'm not confident is in his ability to play both ends well and face proven vets like Crosby or Stamkos head-to-head in the spring.  That's why I'd keep Krejci at least one more year and get a very clear look at what Spooner truly is.  If Krejci is being dangled now, it better be a #1-2D coming back and not a 3-4, otherwise I'd be scared.

[UtahGetMeTwo]

Jun 15, 2015 13:33:30 GMT The OC said:

The Bruins combo also isn't overly expensive for the results they've delivered. They've shown in post-season that they can match up well in overall game against the league's best star centers and 14 million is cheap when comparing to more costly duos like the $19 million Penguins pair. It's enough money to upgrade an AHL fill-in to Lucic.

With the current style of hockey played in the NHL, the best bang for your buck is having premium centers. Their important role defensively and role in controlling the play at both ends is critical. The only other option I explore is having a surplus of premium D. A superstar Defenseman can play more of the game and can influence a lot of the play. Indeed, the teams that have been exceptions to the 1-2 center punch have often had 2 superstar D which meant teams were almost always dealing with Pronger or Neidermeyer or Neidermeyer or Stevens.

If a dealing of Krejci could land a guy like Weber, I would entertain that. But I wouldn't move DK to plug that spot with a weaker pivot.

The package would have to be nothing short of miraculous for me to unload Krejci.

[bostonfan191646]

I do disagree with this. Anaheim pays their top two 14+. Chicago soon will. Pittsburgh exceeds that. Tampa soon will. The Rangers don't and that's their fatal flaw. The difference here is that the bruins have a low end number one (but a number one none the less) in Krejci, and a high end number 2 in bergeron. The only reason I don't list bergeron as the number one, is because the notion is that the number one is supposed to play an offensive style. In 2014 bergeron finished 5th in MVP voting, he's a number one center. Both these contracts are going to look great going forward. 14 million for your top centers is just fine. My only wish is that claude would play both 20 minutes a game.

[bostonfan191646]

Only way I really look to trade krejci is if the Bruins manage to draft someone like Zacha

[The OC]

It would have to be a big package to be worth Krejci's load for sure. I can't see many individual deals that involve Krejci or Hamilton, etc, that end with the team being better. I can see swapping DK for a more solid D and then swapping Hamilton for a younger center, something of that nature, with the end team possibly being better, but any of those trades would have to be for real good talent.

I would deal any of DK, PB, Lucic, Chara or Hamilton because they are expensive. 1,2C, 1,2D are my priorities. If I need cap room I look at supporting players like Eriksson or Seidenberg, or even the slightly expensive Rask as better targets. It seems every year a "good" goalie has a great season playing for a great team, and few of the "elite" goalers are carrying their teams to championships.

[kelvana33]

If your top two centers are making that much, and one of them is Bergeron the other one  needs to be a true a number one point producing center. Krejci in a deal involving Nugent-Hopkins would be ideal.

[UtahGetMeTwo]

Jun 15, 2015 15:00:44 GMT kelvana33 said:

If your top two centers are making that much, and one of them is Bergeron the other one  needs to be a true a number one point producing center. Krejci in a deal involving Nugent-Hopkins would be ideal.

If you were making this deal - what else would you want back from Edmonton in the deal ?

[The OC]

Jun 15, 2015 15:00:44 GMT kelvana33 said:

If your top two centers are making that much, and one of them is Bergeron the other one  needs to be a true a number one point producing center. Krejci in a deal involving Nugent-Hopkins would be ideal.

As always, many are delusional as to the points a "#1" player produces at various positions.  Oustide of last year's injury-plagues seasons, DK has produced between 62 and 69 points per season for the last 3 years.  Last season that would have placed him between 14th and 21st among scoring centers, and 69 is only a point or 3 behind the likes of Getzlaf, Malkin, Griroux, Johnson, Johanson, etc.  Only two centers produced more than 80pts.  Kejci essentially matches all scoring centers in the game save maybe 5 (who aren't going to be traded), while being superior to most on defence and making less than many.  Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, well, I place high value on his talent but his career best to date is 56 points.  To call him on upgrade on Krejci in point production or anything else is ridiculous, even if he has the potential to exceed him going forward.

[bostonfan191646]

Jun 15, 2015 15:00:44 GMT kelvana33 said:

If your top two centers are making that much, and one of them is Bergeron the other one  needs to be a true a number one point producing center. Krejci in a deal involving Nugent-Hopkins would be ideal.

Why?

[NAS]

Jun 15, 2015 14:45:02 GMT bostonfan191646 said:

I do disagree with this. Anaheim pays their top two 14+. Chicago soon will. Pittsburgh exceeds that. Tampa soon will. The Rangers don't and that's their fatal flaw. The difference here is that the bruins have a low end number one (but a number one none the less) in Krejci, and a high end number 2 in bergeron. The only reason I don't list bergeron as the number one, is because the notion is that the number one is supposed to play an offensive style. In 2014 bergeron finished 5th in MVP voting, he's a number one center. Both these contracts are going to look great going forward. 14 million for your top centers is just fine. My only wish is that claude would play both 20 minutes a game.

Anaheim hit the jackpot with a $1M goalie.

Chicago doesn't.

Pitt has long suffered under those deals.

Tampa doesn't.

NYR didn't lose because of their centers.

Listing Bergeron as a #1 only solidifies my statement.  Two #1 centers is too expensive in a cap league, especially as you pointed out, neither is a workhorse minutes wise.