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Post by orrespocash on Jul 24, 2023 14:06:08 GMT
The Bs hopefully aren’t thinking of trading him. He’s one of only two snipers on the team. Most other forwards need to work their butts off for goals, including a now older little Ball of Hate. And we can’t count on defense to score. The over under in goals for both Charlie Mac and Hampus is about 7. Yes they’re good at setting up but not scoring a la Karlson or Makar. Neither has that Howitzer that the latter possess. So as good as the defensive game of the Bruins, is I fear they lose enough 3-2 and 2-1 games to miss the playoffs this year without Jake. Thoughts?
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Post by Lord Markwart on Jul 24, 2023 14:49:30 GMT
It's like chess going both ways.
good goalie is King and we have 2 on the board. You must protect the King even though only 1 gets attacked at a time making the other expendable.
Centers are queens and there is only 1 with Zacha at the moment. Coyle is only a work horse (knight) and is good for 3rd layer or less.
Your top 4 D are rooks which we have. MacAvoy and Lindholm might be the best top 2 all-around combo (even though they do not pair up) in the league. Carlo is a decent 3 and I am okay with whomever you want to slot at 4 for the regular season.
Wingers are your bishops. There are 4 on the board. In the current NHL, it is a luxury to have 4, great to have 3, and absolutely necessary to have 2. Last year, we had mostly 4 (due to injury) with Pasta, March, Jake, Hall/Bert. We are down to 3.
The point of this exercise is to say that you trade bishops in the absence of queens. Without a good queen, all of the other pieces are impacted. Unfortunately, unless Bergeron is coming back, Jake should be a piece to trade along with Ullmark or Swayman. You build from the middle. I'd rather play with a missing bishop than a missing queen
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Post by orrespocash on Jul 24, 2023 15:38:56 GMT
It's like chess going both ways. good goalie is King and we have 2 on the board. You must protect the King even though only 1 gets attacked at a time making the other expendable. Centers are queens and there is only 1 with Zacha at the moment. Coyle is only a work horse (knight) and is good for 3rd layer or less. Your top 4 D are rooks which we have. MacAvoy and Lindholm might be the best top 2 all-around combo (even though they do not pair up) in the league. Carlo is a decent 3 and I am okay with whomever you want to slot at 4 for the regular season. Wingers are your bishops. There are 4 on the board. In the current NHL, it is a luxury to have 4, great to have 3, and absolutely necessary to have 2. Last year, we had mostly 4 (due to injury) with Pasta, March, Jake, Hall/Bert. We are down to 3. The point of this exercise is to say that you trade bishops in the absence of queens. Without a good queen, all of the other pieces are impacted. Unfortunately, unless Bergeron is coming back, Jake should be a piece to trade along with Ullmark or Swayman. You build from the middle. I'd rather play with a missing bishop than a missing queen True about the centers, but they also need scorers to pass to. Bergeron could pass to Lauko all day but Jakub won’t convert many into goals. Snipers only need a few touches to score, no matter who’s passing them the puck. So I guess it’s a ver isnt of the chicken and egg theory lol.
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Post by dannycater on Jul 24, 2023 16:51:54 GMT
The Bs hopefully aren’t thinking of trading him. He’s one of only two snipers on the team. Most other forwards need to work their butts off for goals, including a now older little Ball of Hate. And we can’t count on defense to score. The over under in goals for both Charlie Mac and Hampus is about 7. Yes they’re good at setting up but not scoring a la Karlson or Makar. Neither has that Howitzer that the latter possess. So as good as the defensive game of the Bruins, is I fear they lose enough 3-2 and 2-1 games to miss the playoffs this year without Jake. Thoughts? 100 Percent. 74 is simply an asset now and needed on this team after Hall/Bertuzzi left. Coyle's value also went up.
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Post by bookboy007 on Jul 24, 2023 17:21:10 GMT
It's like chess going both ways. good goalie is King and we have 2 on the board. You must protect the King even though only 1 gets attacked at a time making the other expendable. Centers are queens and there is only 1 with Zacha at the moment. Coyle is only a work horse (knight) and is good for 3rd layer or less. Your top 4 D are rooks which we have. MacAvoy and Lindholm might be the best top 2 all-around combo (even though they do not pair up) in the league. Carlo is a decent 3 and I am okay with whomever you want to slot at 4 for the regular season. Wingers are your bishops. There are 4 on the board. In the current NHL, it is a luxury to have 4, great to have 3, and absolutely necessary to have 2. Last year, we had mostly 4 (due to injury) with Pasta, March, Jake, Hall/Bert. We are down to 3. The point of this exercise is to say that you trade bishops in the absence of queens. Without a good queen, all of the other pieces are impacted. Unfortunately, unless Bergeron is coming back, Jake should be a piece to trade along with Ullmark or Swayman. You build from the middle. I'd rather play with a missing bishop than a missing queen True about the centers, but they also need scorers to pass to. Bergeron could pass to Lauko all day but Jakub won’t convert many into goals. Snipers only need a few touches to score, no matter who’s passing them the puck. So I guess it’s a ver isnt of the chicken and egg theory lol. Depends. Bergeron's not a classic set up man. Lauko might do OK with him because a lot of the way Bergeron gets his points is off the cycle. His elevated points in recent years have been as a result of the chemistry with Marchand and Pastrnak particularly, but he's rarely the guy making the cross-seamer to Pastrnak for the one-timer.
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Post by kelvana33 on Jul 24, 2023 17:52:27 GMT
If they traded DeBrusk in a package that brought back Lindholm/Hanifin I'd do it.
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Post by moognoates on Jul 24, 2023 18:25:27 GMT
If they traded DeBrusk in a package that brought back Lindholm/Hanifin I'd do it. Completely agree. I like Debrusk a lot, but finding a top 2 center is priority. You can always land a winger at the trade deadline or as a UFA. Very very rarely does a high end center become available
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Post by dannycater on Jul 24, 2023 18:26:31 GMT
If they traded DeBrusk in a package that brought back Lindholm/Hanifin I'd do it. Completely agree. I like Debrusk a lot, but finding a top 2 center is priority. You can always land a winger at the trade deadline or as a UFA. Very very rarely does a high end center become available 2 can become available if they make up their minds.
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Post by islamorada on Jul 24, 2023 23:07:18 GMT
Completely agree. I like Debrusk a lot, but finding a top 2 center is priority. You can always land a winger at the trade deadline or as a UFA. Very very rarely does a high end center become available 2 can become available if they make up their minds. The Flamers could use them to start the season under a new coach. If they both continue to say no to an extension, well, the trade deadline could very well bring back picks for a rebuild if that is the direction of the team. Debrusk certainly would alter their plans along with an Ullmark.
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Post by #4 Bobby Orr! GOAT! on Jul 25, 2023 1:54:57 GMT
The Bs hopefully aren’t thinking of trading him. He’s one of only two snipers on the team. Most other forwards need to work their butts off for goals, including a now older little Ball of Hate. And we can’t count on defense to score. The over under in goals for both Charlie Mac and Hampus is about 7. Yes they’re good at setting up but not scoring a la Karlson or Makar. Neither has that Howitzer that the latter possess. So as good as the defensive game of the Bruins, is I fear they lose enough 3-2 and 2-1 games to miss the playoffs this year without Jake. Thoughts? 100 Percent. 74 is simply an asset now and needed on this team after Hall/Bertuzzi left. Coyle's value also went up. We are doomed if you think Coyles stock has gone up. He is not going to get better
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Post by #4 Bobby Orr! GOAT! on Jul 25, 2023 1:56:40 GMT
If they traded DeBrusk in a package that brought back Lindholm/Hanifin I'd do it. Completely agree. I like Debrusk a lot, but finding a top 2 center is priority. You can always land a winger at the trade deadline or as a UFA. Very very rarely does a high end center become available Package better include Grizz
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Post by The OC on Jul 25, 2023 2:02:02 GMT
I said some time ago that JDB decision was Donnie's "Hall trade" moment, referring to Chiarelli and his blundered move that may have cost the Oilers some cups and PC his job. Essentially, he had Jake at a lowish value, a trade request, he was surplus with Marchand and Hall, and the team had needs. What he did with that asset would be key to determining the team's success for some time.
So far Don's passed with flying colors by NOT doing anything rash. Jake turned his game around, took back his trade request and they signed him to an acceptable extension. JDB is now a very valuable top-6 wing in the prime of his career. That doesn't mean he shouldn't or won't be dealt though. I praise Donnie for not panicking and getting pennies on the dollar. Jake's value has probably never been higher. But he's entering his UFA year and an extension may not be in the cards. This could be prime time to move him and fill a void elsewhere. If Sweeney can get his future center using Jake, he will have proven his ability as GM.
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Post by dannycater on Jul 25, 2023 2:08:20 GMT
100 Percent. 74 is simply an asset now and needed on this team after Hall/Bertuzzi left. Coyle's value also went up. We are doomed if you think Coyles stock has gone up. He is not going to get better his stock does go up though because simply the B's need guys who are durable (Coyle) and can get some offense and PK (Coyle). He is sure thing as long as you understand the sure thing involves bouts of non-factor and other bouts of not putting the puck in the net. He is a great shootout guy too (like DeBrusk).
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Post by Lord Markwart on Jul 25, 2023 15:19:29 GMT
If they traded DeBrusk in a package that brought back Lindholm/Hanifin I'd do it. Now that PB is officially gone, and DK most likely to follow suit, let the chess game begin.
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Post by 50belowzero on Jul 25, 2023 18:28:46 GMT
I don't want Gryz traded under any circumstance as he provides GOAT with a reason to live. On second thought if Gryz was a must include to complete a trade for Draisaitl then OK but that's it, otherwise need fuel for GOAT's existence.
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Post by Bim on Aug 16, 2023 11:26:52 GMT
Get rid of Debrusk, Cassidy proved why.
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Post by thanx4memORRies on Aug 16, 2023 12:15:15 GMT
Let’s see what Jakey can do without Bergy and Krejci on a contract year…. we’ve already seen what he can do playing with Coyle….
If a deal for a guy like Lindholm was possible it would’ve happened already….
Much easier to find 25-30 goal wingers than quality centers….
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Post by dannycater on Aug 16, 2023 12:39:59 GMT
I completely disagree with thanx...no it's not that fucking easy to find 25-30 goal scorer wingers.
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Post by thanx4memORRies on Aug 16, 2023 12:56:58 GMT
I completely disagree with thanx...no it's not that fucking easy to find 25-30 goal scorer wingers. I’ll be checking for your rant the first time Jakey goes a few games without a goal….
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Post by dannycater on Aug 16, 2023 13:34:50 GMT
I completely disagree with thanx...no it's not that fucking easy to find 25-30 goal scorer wingers. I’ll be checking for your rant the first time Jakey goes a few games without a goal…. Well, here's the deal...yes, I was a big a critic of Jakey and his soft/crying for a trade through his agent and certainly not handling Cassidy's hard criticism of his game...but he did a breakthrough, ironically the iconic Winter Classic, playing on a broken leg he willed the team to victory...and he played so well last season, and even in the playoffs, he came through with some big plays...his 200-foot game came to being, his ability to back-check--never seen him so good at that--he has matured. Some guys take longer than others. So I'm not worried about him scoring goals and he will have some slumps, but if the end of the day he puts up 60 points and 30 goals, I'm going to say he will be one of the team's top 3 scorers. And right now after all the offensive losses--37,46,59,71...you need what offense reliability you do have. If the B's even have a fighting chance for the Cup this next season--he will be vital to that. I am upset that Hall was unloaded without replacing him when Bertuzzi was not signed and 46/37 retired...puts a lot of pressure on 88,74,63,13 to get things done...
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Post by thanx4memORRies on Aug 16, 2023 14:08:09 GMT
I’ll be checking for your rant the first time Jakey goes a few games without a goal…. Well, here's the deal...yes, I was a big a critic of Jakey and his soft/crying for a trade through his agent and certainly not handling Cassidy's hard criticism of his game...but he did a breakthrough, ironically the iconic Winter Classic, playing on a broken leg he willed the team to victory...and he played so well last season, and even in the playoffs, he came through with some big plays...his 200-foot game came to being, his ability to back-check--never seen him so good at that--he has matured. Some guys take longer than others. So I'm not worried about him scoring goals and he will have some slumps, but if the end of the day he puts up 60 points and 30 goals, I'm going to say he will be one of the team's top 3 scorers. And right now after all the offensive losses--37,46,59,71...you need what offense reliability you do have. If the B's even have a fighting chance for the Cup this next season--he will be vital to that. I am upset that Hall was unloaded without replacing him when Bertuzzi was not signed and 46/37 retired...puts a lot of pressure on 88,74,63,13 to get things done... Agree with all you said…. Still, I find a quality center is more vital and that the B’S will still be able to get enough scoring from the likes of Pasta, Marchy and Zacha, if the latter can be moved back to winger…. Hopeful also that Fabian can start living up to the hype sooner rather than later….
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Post by dannycater on Aug 16, 2023 14:37:04 GMT
Well, here's the deal...yes, I was a big a critic of Jakey and his soft/crying for a trade through his agent and certainly not handling Cassidy's hard criticism of his game...but he did a breakthrough, ironically the iconic Winter Classic, playing on a broken leg he willed the team to victory...and he played so well last season, and even in the playoffs, he came through with some big plays...his 200-foot game came to being, his ability to back-check--never seen him so good at that--he has matured. Some guys take longer than others. So I'm not worried about him scoring goals and he will have some slumps, but if the end of the day he puts up 60 points and 30 goals, I'm going to say he will be one of the team's top 3 scorers. And right now after all the offensive losses--37,46,59,71...you need what offense reliability you do have. If the B's even have a fighting chance for the Cup this next season--he will be vital to that. I am upset that Hall was unloaded without replacing him when Bertuzzi was not signed and 46/37 retired...puts a lot of pressure on 88,74,63,13 to get things done... Agree with all you said…. Still, I find a quality center is more vital and that the B’S will still be able to get enough scoring from the likes of Pasta, Marchy and Zacha, if the latter can be moved back to winger…. Hopeful also that Fabian can start living up to the hype sooner rather than later…. Would love a Fabian, a Georgiev break out of nowhere to be NHL talents (that's how it eventually was for Marchand, DK...takes a little while), but Pasta and DeBrusk are guys who score on their own. I feel like Marchand, Zacha have to have others make plays in tandem to get their points. 74 went from a trade bait to simply an almost indispensable guy.
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Post by bookboy007 on Aug 19, 2023 16:58:01 GMT
I don't want Gryz traded under any circumstance as he provides GOAT with a reason to live. On second thought if Gryz was a must include to complete a trade for Draisaitl then OK but that's it, otherwise need fuel for GOAT's existence. Can you imagine how much he would seethe in the afterlife because people would think that the reason the Grz trade killed him was because Grz was his favourite player? "Bruins fan found dead after reading of Grzelcyk trade; friends call Grz 'his reason to live'."
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Post by bookboy007 on Aug 19, 2023 16:59:49 GMT
I completely disagree with thanx...no it's not that fucking easy to find 25-30 goal scorer wingers. He didn't say it was easy. He said it was easier than finding a top C. I think we all agree with that.
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Post by bookboy007 on Aug 19, 2023 17:36:02 GMT
Well, here's the deal...yes, I was a big a critic of Jakey and his soft/crying for a trade through his agent and certainly not handling Cassidy's hard criticism of his game...but he did a breakthrough, ironically the iconic Winter Classic, playing on a broken leg he willed the team to victory...and he played so well last season, and even in the playoffs, he came through with some big plays...his 200-foot game came to being, his ability to back-check--never seen him so good at that--he has matured. Some guys take longer than others. So I'm not worried about him scoring goals and he will have some slumps, but if the end of the day he puts up 60 points and 30 goals, I'm going to say he will be one of the team's top 3 scorers. And right now after all the offensive losses--37,46,59,71...you need what offense reliability you do have. If the B's even have a fighting chance for the Cup this next season--he will be vital to that. I am upset that Hall was unloaded without replacing him when Bertuzzi was not signed and 46/37 retired...puts a lot of pressure on 88,74,63,13 to get things done... Agree with all you said…. Still, I find a quality center is more vital and that the B’S will still be able to get enough scoring from the likes of Pasta, Marchy and Zacha, if the latter can be moved back to winger…. Hopeful also that Fabian can start living up to the hype sooner rather than later…. Time was past behaviour was a reliable predictor of future behaviour, but I don't think that's true any more. Nevertheless... I looked at the top scoring Cs over the last six seasons again. Point number 1, 2 of the top 10 have changed teams - Huberdeau (we can debate whether he should be included, but for now we'll take NHL.com's word for it) and Tavares. One trade, one UFA. Between 11-20, three of them were traded but before they became top producers - Zibanejad, Lindholm and JT Miller. If you do top 32 (in theory, evenly distributed as the top scoring C for each NHL team), there are a few guys who have been traded or otherwise moved multiple times - Miller, Brayden Schenn, Ryan O'Reilly, and Matt Duchene, and overall 11 of 32 have changed teams - better than 1/3. Surprisingly few of the moves are of the Pavelski nature where a guy spends almost his entire career with one team and then plays his final years on a different team - and that's not even to limit it to aging vets who still lead their teams in scoring like Pavelski has. One third. #33 is Kadri - moved twice already. But that's also 11 over 6 years. Fewer than 2 per season. There are moves to be made, but like when the lights come on in the bar at the end of the night, you might not like the choices if you either take the best available option or go home alone. Point number 2 is that if you wanted to look at one thing and say "we're tanking!" it's this list. In the top 9, 6 were first overall picks, one was a second overall and two were third overall. 26 of the top 35 are top 10 picks - more than 2/3 - and 15 of those 26 went top 3. If you're hoping to draft one, the odds are about the same in picks 4-10 as for 11 and after - at least in terms of total number of players to make the list (11 from 4-10; 9 from 11-224). In terms of LWs, there is more movement at the top starting with Panarin at 1, Gaudreau at 3, Tkachuk at 5. David Perron is basically a streamer trunk. Fiala, Teravainen, Buchnevich are all top 13 and all have moved. Most of those guys will get you 25 goals on average if not more over 82 games. RWs is even more fluid aftr the top 5**. The first significant guy is #6, Giroux, who only really moved because he was coming to the end of his career and had the chance to play it out close to home. Good for him. Wheeler is 7 and of course he was moved early. Debrincat has now been moved twice at 8. Marchessault moved thanks to the Expansion draft - he's 10. Kessel, Mark Stone, Timo Meier, Voracek (more than once), Zuccarello, Toffoli, Reilly Smith, Rakell, Dadonov, and Eberle are all in the top 24. Even if you don't count Wheeler and Giroux for the when and why they were traded, you have half of the top RW scorers changing teams. So I would say that it may be slightly easier to get a top winger, but 25-30 goal wingers are not growing on trees like they did in the 80s. **The top three RW in scoring over the last 6 seasons are separated by 2 points: Kucherov - 495, Pasta - 494, Marner - 493. Marner, though, has played 10 more games than Pastrnak, and Pastrnak has played 61 more than the Kooch. Rantanen would replace Marner in the top 3 if you did this by points/game with the other two holding serve.
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