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Post by thanx4memORRies on Sept 10, 2023 16:51:46 GMT
B’S sneak into the 8th seed and upset the Candy Canes in round one and go on to repeat the feat against the Devils and, yes, the Laffs in the conference finals before taking down the two-headed beast in the SCF….
Jay Sway wins the Connie Smythe….
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Post by 50belowzero on Sept 11, 2023 21:53:02 GMT
Jake DeBrusk is signed to a long term deal at 5 yrs or more and one of the B's goalies is traded, which one depends on who grabs the reins. There will be no need to have 2 goaliues going into the playoffs and by the trade deadline management should have a good idea.
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Post by thanx4memORRies on Sept 12, 2023 1:12:16 GMT
Jake DeBrusk is signed to a long term deal at 5 yrs or more and one of the B's goalies is traded, which one depends on who grabs the reins. There will be no need to have 2 goaliues going into the playoffs and by the trade deadline management should have a good idea. Agree that one of the goalies will be moved but I think it’ll happen next summer…. And it won’t be the one that’s just won the Connie Smythe….
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Post by bookboy007 on Sept 12, 2023 20:07:26 GMT
Bold and fearless? You want bold and fearless?
If the Bruins are not in the playoff structure by kickoff of the Thanksgiving Day game in Detroit, they will McAvoy and DeBrusk to Winnipeg for Schiefele and Morrissey, then sign Schneiffle to a 6 year extension.
They will then trade Ullmark, Grz and Coyle to Calgary for Lindholm and Mangiapane and sign Lindholm to a similar extension. They'll chase the playoffs with this roster:
Marchand-Schiefele-Mangiapane Zacha-Lindholm-Pastrnak JVR-Geekie-Frederic Lucic-Beecher-Lauko
Morrissey-Carlo Lindholm-Shattenkirk Forbort-Zboril
Swayman Bussi
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Post by thanx4memORRies on Sept 12, 2023 20:20:13 GMT
Bold and fearless? You want bold and fearless? If the Bruins are not in the playoff structure by kickoff of the Thanksgiving Day game in Detroit, they will McAvoy and DeBrusk to Winnipeg for Schiefele and Morrissey, then sign Schneiffle to a 6 year extension. They will then trade Ullmark, Grz and Coyle to Calgary for Lindholm and Mangiapane and sign Lindholm to a similar extension. They'll chase the playoffs with this roster: Marchand-Schiefele-Mangiapane Zacha-Lindholm-Pastrnak JVR-Geekie-Frederic Lucic-Beecher-Lauko Morrissey-Carlo Lindholm-Shattenkirk Forbort-Zboril Swayman Bussi Auto cup!
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Post by mdsizzle on Sept 12, 2023 20:32:24 GMT
Looch gets up on line 2 and pots 30 bitches!
Looch gets up on line 2 and pots 30, bitches!
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Post by sandogbrewin on Sept 12, 2023 22:07:15 GMT
Bold and fearless? You want bold and fearless? If the Bruins are not in the playoff structure by kickoff of the Thanksgiving Day game in Detroit, they will McAvoy and DeBrusk to Winnipeg for Schiefele and Morrissey, then sign Schneiffle to a 6 year extension. They will then trade Ullmark, Grz and Coyle to Calgary for Lindholm and Mangiapane and sign Lindholm to a similar extension. They'll chase the playoffs with this roster: Marchand-Schiefele-Mangiapane Zacha-Lindholm-Pastrnak JVR-Geekie-Frederic Lucic-Beecher-Lauko Morrissey-Carlo Lindholm-Shattenkirk Forbort-Zboril Swayman Bussi Mutual of Pearl from the man who used to avoid the trade deadline thread!
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Post by islamorada on Sept 13, 2023 0:47:56 GMT
Bold and fearless? You want bold and fearless? If the Bruins are not in the playoff structure by kickoff of the Thanksgiving Day game in Detroit, they will McAvoy and DeBrusk to Winnipeg for Schiefele and Morrissey, then sign Schneiffle to a 6 year extension. They will then trade Ullmark, Grz and Coyle to Calgary for Lindholm and Mangiapane and sign Lindholm to a similar extension. They'll chase the playoffs with this roster: Marchand-Schiefele-Mangiapane Zacha-Lindholm-Pastrnak JVR-Geekie-Frederic Lucic-Beecher-Lauko Morrissey-Carlo Lindholm-Shattenkirk Forbort-Zboril Swayman Bussi Lagavulin 16 version? Or is this the fantasy thread?
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Post by bookboy007 on Sept 13, 2023 1:16:11 GMT
Bold and fearless? You want bold and fearless? If the Bruins are not in the playoff structure by kickoff of the Thanksgiving Day game in Detroit, they will McAvoy and DeBrusk to Winnipeg for Schiefele and Morrissey, then sign Schneiffle to a 6 year extension. They will then trade Ullmark, Grz and Coyle to Calgary for Lindholm and Mangiapane and sign Lindholm to a similar extension. They'll chase the playoffs with this roster: Marchand-Schiefele-Mangiapane Zacha-Lindholm-Pastrnak JVR-Geekie-Frederic Lucic-Beecher-Lauko Morrissey-Carlo Lindholm-Shattenkirk Forbort-Zboril Swayman Bussi Mutual of Pearl from the man who used to avoid the trade deadline thread! I thought bold and fearless meant "make some shit up that would be fun".
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Post by chappy28 on Sept 13, 2023 1:28:42 GMT
Rosy version.....
Zacha-Pasta-Marchand are put together to carry the team and Zacha delivers an 80 pt season basically outscoring what Bergy/DK have ever done in a season. That line and our top tier defense and goalies carry us into the playoffs to make some noise
Not-so-rosy version
We take a key injury to Pasta and McAvoy and the wheels fall off the bus pushing into being deadline sellers. Marchand, and Ullmark are deadline deals bringing back a littany of first and second round picks and a young center prospect/player. Sweeney goes into the off-season with a boatload of money and a handful of top 2 round picks and completes the fastest retool in league history
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Post by bookboy007 on Sept 15, 2023 0:04:52 GMT
Rosy version..... Zacha-Pasta-Marchand are put together to carry the team and Zacha delivers an 80 pt season basically outscoring what Bergy/DK have ever done in a season. That line and our top tier defense and goalies carry us into the playoffs to make some noise Not-so-rosy version We take a key injury to Pasta and McAvoy and the wheels fall off the bus pushing into being deadline sellers. Marchand, and Ullmark are deadline deals bringing back a littany of first and second round picks and a young center prospect/player. Sweeney goes into the off-season with a boatload of money and a handful of top 2 round picks and completes the fastest retool in league history You know, most people say "not-so-rosy" and what they mean is "fucking shitshow!" They think it's deft rhetorically (the technical term is litotes) to vastly understate the awfulness of the situation. Not our chappy. Not-so-rosy means "rosy, just not as rosy as the fantasy I've just spun." Thanks, chappy. The risk of injury derailing this roster has been on my mind. I mean, it derailed the roster last year when...probably predictably...the 35+ top two Cs who have played a ton of hockey (DK just under 1200 regular season and playoff NHL games; PB a whopping 1460+) missed a bunch of games down the stretch and in the playoffs aka at the worst possible moment. That roster was so deep they sat some pretty productive depth players in Foligno and Frederic for some games, and they won the games without both their veteran leaders. So if THAT team can get screwged by injuries, what's to save this one if Pastrnak tweaks his groin or blows out his retinas looking at one of his suits? So much of the offense depends on Pastrnak this season. Any team would suffer if their 100 point Hart finalist was injured for any length of time, but there's a realistic chance that Pastrnak leads this team by 30+ points if Marchand slips. He had 33 fewer points last year than in his best year 4 years ago. I don't think that will happen. But if it does...I wonder how far into sell mode Sweeney goes. He'll have 8 guys facing UFA, assuming JDB doesn't get a new deal. DeBrusk will be 27 in October, and while he's got 30 goal potential with regular PP TOI, he might be more valuable in a trade than to Bruin team looking to retool. Lucic, JVR and Greer might bring you something depending on how they play this year, but we're assuming things have hit the terlit, so that's not likely. Lucic and JVR could be depth guys you move on for a mid round pick or a 23 yr old former first rounder in the A. On the blueline, Forbort is the classic playoff rental; a shot-blocking reasonably physical and mobile defenseman with a lot of experience. It's not inconceivable that someone offers a first for him. They did for Chiarot. Zboril is a nothingburger in trade value right now, and if he does well, he might be a guy who you DON'T trade because he's probably a cheap part of the retool. Then you have the enigma that is Grz. He's +114 in his career, and he's had 20+ points the last 4 years, even though he only played 38 games in one of those years. But he is a documented disaster in the playoffs where physical teams target him as the weakest link. What does he bring back? Assuming they move him rather than keep him just to keep GOAT angry. If a team with Cup aspirations loses their PPQB in March? Or a team like Ottawa that needs to turn the corner and make the playoffs loses Chabot? I think you get at least a second for him in those situations. But maybe the real returns come from teams looking for a two year return on investment. Then Marchand is in play, and Frederic, and Linus. That's white flag stuff, but it would be the surest path to some kind of return.
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Post by chappy28 on Sept 15, 2023 2:05:47 GMT
Rosy version..... Zacha-Pasta-Marchand are put together to carry the team and Zacha delivers an 80 pt season basically outscoring what Bergy/DK have ever done in a season. That line and our top tier defense and goalies carry us into the playoffs to make some noise Not-so-rosy version We take a key injury to Pasta and McAvoy and the wheels fall off the bus pushing into being deadline sellers. Marchand, and Ullmark are deadline deals bringing back a littany of first and second round picks and a young center prospect/player. Sweeney goes into the off-season with a boatload of money and a handful of top 2 round picks and completes the fastest retool in league history You know, most people say "not-so-rosy" and what they mean is "fucking shitshow!" They think it's deft rhetorically (the technical term is litotes) to vastly understate the awfulness of the situation. Not our chappy. Not-so-rosy means "rosy, just not as rosy as the fantasy I've just spun." Thanks, chappy. The risk of injury derailing this roster has been on my mind. I mean, it derailed the roster last year when...probably predictably...the 35+ top two Cs who have played a ton of hockey (DK just under 1200 regular season and playoff NHL games; PB a whopping 1460+) missed a bunch of games down the stretch and in the playoffs aka at the worst possible moment. That roster was so deep they sat some pretty productive depth players in Foligno and Frederic for some games, and they won the games without both their veteran leaders. So if THAT team can get screwged by injuries, what's to save this one if Pastrnak tweaks his groin or blows out his retinas looking at one of his suits? So much of the offense depends on Pastrnak this season. Any team would suffer if their 100 point Hart finalist was injured for any length of time, but there's a realistic chance that Pastrnak leads this team by 30+ points if Marchand slips. He had 33 fewer points last year than in his best year 4 years ago. I don't think that will happen. But if it does...I wonder how far into sell mode Sweeney goes. He'll have 8 guys facing UFA, assuming JDB doesn't get a new deal. DeBrusk will be 27 in October, and while he's got 30 goal potential with regular PP TOI, he might be more valuable in a trade than to Bruin team looking to retool. Lucic, JVR and Greer might bring you something depending on how they play this year, but we're assuming things have hit the terlit, so that's not likely. Lucic and JVR could be depth guys you move on for a mid round pick or a 23 yr old former first rounder in the A. On the blueline, Forbort is the classic playoff rental; a shot-blocking reasonably physical and mobile defenseman with a lot of experience. It's not inconceivable that someone offers a first for him. They did for Chiarot. Zboril is a nothingburger in trade value right now, and if he does well, he might be a guy who you DON'T trade because he's probably a cheap part of the retool. Then you have the enigma that is Grz. He's +114 in his career, and he's had 20+ points the last 4 years, even though he only played 38 games in one of those years. But he is a documented disaster in the playoffs where physical teams target him as the weakest link. What does he bring back? Assuming they move him rather than keep him just to keep GOAT angry. If a team with Cup aspirations loses their PPQB in March? Or a team like Ottawa that needs to turn the corner and make the playoffs loses Chabot? I think you get at least a second for him in those situations. But maybe the real returns come from teams looking for a two year return on investment. Then Marchand is in play, and Frederic, and Linus. That's white flag stuff, but it would be the surest path to some kind of return. Every one of those last three you mentioned is worth at least a first round pick.... Marchy and Linus both worth more than a first in a deadline deal situation
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Post by RichHillOntario on Sept 15, 2023 20:14:18 GMT
Bold and fearless? You want bold and fearless? If the Bruins are not in the playoff structure by kickoff of the Thanksgiving Day game in Detroit, they will McAvoy and DeBrusk to Winnipeg for Schiefele and Morrissey, then sign Schneiffle to a 6 year extension. They will then trade Ullmark, Grz and Coyle to Calgary for Lindholm and Mangiapane and sign Lindholm to a similar extension. They'll chase the playoffs with this roster: Marchand-Schiefele-Mangiapane Zacha-Lindholm-Pastrnak JVR-Geekie-Frederic Lucic-Beecher-Lauko Morrissey-Carlo Lindholm-Shattenkirk Forbort-Zboril Swayman Bussi I feel like I just had my first beer.
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Post by bookboy007 on Sept 15, 2023 21:13:02 GMT
You know, most people say "not-so-rosy" and what they mean is "fucking shitshow!" They think it's deft rhetorically (the technical term is litotes) to vastly understate the awfulness of the situation. Not our chappy. Not-so-rosy means "rosy, just not as rosy as the fantasy I've just spun." Thanks, chappy. The risk of injury derailing this roster has been on my mind. I mean, it derailed the roster last year when...probably predictably...the 35+ top two Cs who have played a ton of hockey (DK just under 1200 regular season and playoff NHL games; PB a whopping 1460+) missed a bunch of games down the stretch and in the playoffs aka at the worst possible moment. That roster was so deep they sat some pretty productive depth players in Foligno and Frederic for some games, and they won the games without both their veteran leaders. So if THAT team can get screwged by injuries, what's to save this one if Pastrnak tweaks his groin or blows out his retinas looking at one of his suits? So much of the offense depends on Pastrnak this season. Any team would suffer if their 100 point Hart finalist was injured for any length of time, but there's a realistic chance that Pastrnak leads this team by 30+ points if Marchand slips. He had 33 fewer points last year than in his best year 4 years ago. I don't think that will happen. But if it does...I wonder how far into sell mode Sweeney goes. He'll have 8 guys facing UFA, assuming JDB doesn't get a new deal. DeBrusk will be 27 in October, and while he's got 30 goal potential with regular PP TOI, he might be more valuable in a trade than to Bruin team looking to retool. Lucic, JVR and Greer might bring you something depending on how they play this year, but we're assuming things have hit the terlit, so that's not likely. Lucic and JVR could be depth guys you move on for a mid round pick or a 23 yr old former first rounder in the A. On the blueline, Forbort is the classic playoff rental; a shot-blocking reasonably physical and mobile defenseman with a lot of experience. It's not inconceivable that someone offers a first for him. They did for Chiarot. Zboril is a nothingburger in trade value right now, and if he does well, he might be a guy who you DON'T trade because he's probably a cheap part of the retool. Then you have the enigma that is Grz. He's +114 in his career, and he's had 20+ points the last 4 years, even though he only played 38 games in one of those years. But he is a documented disaster in the playoffs where physical teams target him as the weakest link. What does he bring back? Assuming they move him rather than keep him just to keep GOAT angry. If a team with Cup aspirations loses their PPQB in March? Or a team like Ottawa that needs to turn the corner and make the playoffs loses Chabot? I think you get at least a second for him in those situations. But maybe the real returns come from teams looking for a two year return on investment. Then Marchand is in play, and Frederic, and Linus. That's white flag stuff, but it would be the surest path to some kind of return. Every one of those last three you mentioned is worth at least a first round pick.... Marchy and Linus both worth more than a first in a deadline deal situation I'm not sure they'd get a first for Freddy if he has a down year this year. Just because he's now old enough that no one will pay for his "potential". And yeah, I'd go as far as saying that if you get at least first for either Marchand or Ullmark, don't trade them. Maybe it's not a pick, but in terms of value, you don't move them unless it's worth your while because it isn't a situation where you either take the best deal or let them walk. Both guys come back.
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Post by 50belowzero on Sept 17, 2023 15:26:23 GMT
Jake DeBrusk is signed to a long term deal at 5 yrs or more and one of the B's goalies is traded, which one depends on who grabs the reins. There will be no need to have 2 goaliues going into the playoffs and by the trade deadline management should have a good idea. Agree that one of the goalies will be moved but I think it’ll happen next summer…. And it won’t be the one that’s just won the Connie Smythe…. I guess time will tell but with the slow turning over of the roster keeping Swayman is likely the way to go age wise although goalies can play into their late 30's so Ullmark could be the guy. Odds are Swayman is the guy but if Leenus plays well and some other team offers up a sizeable trade package you never know.
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Post by bookboy007 on Sept 17, 2023 16:51:02 GMT
Agree that one of the goalies will be moved but I think it’ll happen next summer…. And it won’t be the one that’s just won the Connie Smythe…. I guess time will tell but with the slow turning over of the roster keeping Swayman is likely the way to go age wise although goalies can play into their late 30's so Ullmark could be the guy. Odds are Swayman is the guy but if Leenus plays well and some other team offers up a sizeable trade package you never know. I think it depends a lot on the year. If they are contenders, then I think they ride out the year with both goalies. If they're close to contenders, and a Sway deal could land them the missing piece, i think they go for it. If they tank, all Swayman. Moving Swayman would depend a bit on how they feel about Bussi and Swddyballs. If they think Svedeback's the heir in four or fove years, and Bussi can give them solid backup games, they moght not feel it when they trade Swayman. If they're wrong, hoo baby.
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Post by stevegm on Sept 17, 2023 18:59:32 GMT
You know, most people say "not-so-rosy" and what they mean is "fucking shitshow!" They think it's deft rhetorically (the technical term is litotes) to vastly understate the awfulness of the situation. Not our chappy. Not-so-rosy means "rosy, just not as rosy as the fantasy I've just spun." Thanks, chappy. The risk of injury derailing this roster has been on my mind. I mean, it derailed the roster last year when...probably predictably...the 35+ top two Cs who have played a ton of hockey (DK just under 1200 regular season and playoff NHL games; PB a whopping 1460+) missed a bunch of games down the stretch and in the playoffs aka at the worst possible moment. That roster was so deep they sat some pretty productive depth players in Foligno and Frederic for some games, and they won the games without both their veteran leaders. So if THAT team can get screwged by injuries, what's to save this one if Pastrnak tweaks his groin or blows out his retinas looking at one of his suits? So much of the offense depends on Pastrnak this season. Any team would suffer if their 100 point Hart finalist was injured for any length of time, but there's a realistic chance that Pastrnak leads this team by 30+ points if Marchand slips. He had 33 fewer points last year than in his best year 4 years ago. I don't think that will happen. But if it does...I wonder how far into sell mode Sweeney goes. He'll have 8 guys facing UFA, assuming JDB doesn't get a new deal. DeBrusk will be 27 in October, and while he's got 30 goal potential with regular PP TOI, he might be more valuable in a trade than to Bruin team looking to retool. Lucic, JVR and Greer might bring you something depending on how they play this year, but we're assuming things have hit the terlit, so that's not likely. Lucic and JVR could be depth guys you move on for a mid round pick or a 23 yr old former first rounder in the A. On the blueline, Forbort is the classic playoff rental; a shot-blocking reasonably physical and mobile defenseman with a lot of experience. It's not inconceivable that someone offers a first for him. They did for Chiarot. Zboril is a nothingburger in trade value right now, and if he does well, he might be a guy who you DON'T trade because he's probably a cheap part of the retool. Then you have the enigma that is Grz. He's +114 in his career, and he's had 20+ points the last 4 years, even though he only played 38 games in one of those years. But he is a documented disaster in the playoffs where physical teams target him as the weakest link. What does he bring back? Assuming they move him rather than keep him just to keep GOAT angry. If a team with Cup aspirations loses their PPQB in March? Or a team like Ottawa that needs to turn the corner and make the playoffs loses Chabot? I think you get at least a second for him in those situations. But maybe the real returns come from teams looking for a two year return on investment. Then Marchand is in play, and Frederic, and Linus. That's white flag stuff, but it would be the surest path to some kind of return. Every one of those last three you mentioned is worth at least a first round pick.... Marchy and Linus both worth more than a first in a deadline deal situation problem is...we know they're worth considerable. we really have no idea what those "firsts" are. whichever way things play out, I hope the path to improvement isn't grounded in hoarding lottery tickets. that logic failed really well, a couple times over the past 15 years...probably cost a couple Cups.
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Post by thanx4memORRies on Sept 17, 2023 20:16:58 GMT
I guess time will tell but with the slow turning over of the roster keeping Swayman is likely the way to go age wise although goalies can play into their late 30's so Ullmark could be the guy. Odds are Swayman is the guy but if Leenus plays well and some other team offers up a sizeable trade package you never know. I think it depends a lot on the year. If they are contenders, then I think they ride out the year with both goalies. If they're close to contenders, and a Sway deal could land them the missing piece, i think they go for it. If they tank, all Swayman. Moving Swayman would depend a bit on how they feel about Bussi and Swddyballs. If they think Svedeback's the heir in four or fove years, and Bussi can give them solid backup games, they moght not feel it when they trade Swayman. If they're wrong, hoo baby. Sway not only starts the playoffs this season but he’s also the B’S goalie of the future….
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Post by The OC on Sept 17, 2023 22:35:58 GMT
I guess time will tell but with the slow turning over of the roster keeping Swayman is likely the way to go age wise although goalies can play into their late 30's so Ullmark could be the guy. Odds are Swayman is the guy but if Leenus plays well and some other team offers up a sizeable trade package you never know. I think it depends a lot on the year. If they are contenders, then I think they ride out the year with both goalies. If they're close to contenders, and a Sway deal could land them the missing piece, i think they go for it. If they tank, all Swayman. Moving Swayman would depend a bit on how they feel about Bussi and Swddyballs. If they think Svedeback's the heir in four or fove years, and Bussi can give them solid backup games, they moght not feel it when they trade Swayman. If they're wrong, hoo baby. You’re assuming Linus will be the better goalie this season, which is a big assumption.
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Post by bookboy007 on Sept 17, 2023 23:50:21 GMT
I think it depends a lot on the year. If they are contenders, then I think they ride out the year with both goalies. If they're close to contenders, and a Sway deal could land them the missing piece, i think they go for it. If they tank, all Swayman. Moving Swayman would depend a bit on how they feel about Bussi and Swddyballs. If they think Svedeback's the heir in four or fove years, and Bussi can give them solid backup games, they moght not feel it when they trade Swayman. If they're wrong, hoo baby. You’re assuming Linus will be the better goalie this season, which is a big assumption. No, I'm just assuming that Linus will be good. I think Sway is a more attractive trade target and would yield a bigger return.
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Post by The OC on Sept 18, 2023 0:56:26 GMT
You’re assuming Linus will be the better goalie this season, which is a big assumption. No, I'm just assuming that Linus will be good. I think Sway is a more attractive trade target and would yield a bigger return. If you are close to a contender, you don't trade your best goaler. Forget about being younger, I think Jerry's the best option right now, especially in the playoffs.
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Post by chappy28 on Sept 18, 2023 15:13:58 GMT
Every one of those last three you mentioned is worth at least a first round pick.... Marchy and Linus both worth more than a first in a deadline deal situation problem is...we know they're worth considerable. we really have no idea what those "firsts" are. whichever way things play out, I hope the path to improvement isn't grounded in hoarding lottery tickets. that logic failed really well, a couple times over the past 15 years...probably cost a couple Cups. On one hand, I get the "lottery ticket" analogy. On another though, it's how you build a franchise. Home grown players (i.e. winning lottery tickets) are how you build a successful and lasting roster. When a guy "pops" in his first few years in the league he becomes a huge value to the team because his play is above his paygrade for the first couple of contracts. After that, the relationship flips and older players are often paid more than they are worth. It's just the way things go. So when you try to build a team solely on free agency and already proven players, you are paying to decrease that risk, and in a cap league that gets you in trouble. The Bruins "dynasty" that is basically turning over in the past few years was built on home grown players. Bergy, DK, Marchand, Lucic, Rask (kind of) were all mainstays of successful teams who played largely at at or below market value contracts. The best of our current core --- Pasta, McAvoy, Carlo, Debrusk are also all home grown players who have provided great value in their first couple of contracts and are only now becoming more expensive to keep around. Now that we are paying McAvoy and Pasta big money, (and perhaps Debrusk sooon as well) we will need to be able to balance that out with the next crop of youngsters (lottery tickets) in order to build a strong roster and stay cap compliant. I'm not saying that drafts is the only part of the strategy --- just that it is, and has to be part of the picture. You simply can't build a competitive roster by overpaying for free agents and ignoring your draft and development process. Where would we be the last 6-7 years if we didn't draft McAvoy and Pasta as first rounders? (hint --- not competing for the cup every year). We need first round picks and right now we don't have one for the next two years and barely even have any second round picks after that. We simply need to recoup some of that draft capital if we really think we can stay competitive going forward without a complete tear down. So sure, if you really thing that Sweeney should keep shuffling the deck and trading picks, and signing aging or expensive free agents as his team building strategy, knock yourself out. I just don't think that's sustainable. He pushed his chips to the center last year and I understand that (although would make an argument that he shouldn't have), now he needs to figure out how to bring draft capital back in. If we fall out of playoff contention this year. I don't know how you don't move some pieces and get back into the draft for the long term health of the franchise. If he doesn't, I predict that Sweeney is no longer the GM three years from now and we are looking at a full rebuild. And the last thing about lottery tickets ---- seems to be working out pretty good for Chicago, no? Every year teams draft players who end up being core to their franchise future. Sure it may take some of these kids a few years to marinate, but you simply can't deny that new talent comes into the league each year through the draft. Every ticket isn't a winner, but every ticket isn't a loser either. Nobody thought we were getting a 60 goal scorer when we drafted Pasta at 24. Few could have predicted how quickly McAvoy would establish himself when we drafted him at 13. You have to play the game to win. Not drafting at all for the first two rounds multiple years in a row is simply franchise suicide. I'd rather the Bruins not run the organization like our country runs our economy and environment (short term sugar high at the expense of long term pain and degradation)
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Post by stevegm on Sept 19, 2023 2:34:43 GMT
problem is...we know they're worth considerable. we really have no idea what those "firsts" are. whichever way things play out, I hope the path to improvement isn't grounded in hoarding lottery tickets. that logic failed really well, a couple times over the past 15 years...probably cost a couple Cups. On one hand, I get the "lottery ticket" analogy. On another though, it's how you build a franchise. Home grown players (i.e. winning lottery tickets) are how you build a successful and lasting roster. When a guy "pops" in his first few years in the league he becomes a huge value to the team because his play is above his paygrade for the first couple of contracts. After that, the relationship flips and older players are often paid more than they are worth. It's just the way things go. So when you try to build a team solely on free agency and already proven players, you are paying to decrease that risk, and in a cap league that gets you in trouble. The Bruins "dynasty" that is basically turning over in the past few years was built on home grown players. Bergy, DK, Marchand, Lucic, Rask (kind of) were all mainstays of successful teams who played largely at at or below market value contracts. The best of our current core --- Pasta, McAvoy, Carlo, Debrusk are also all home grown players who have provided great value in their first couple of contracts and are only now becoming more expensive to keep around. Now that we are paying McAvoy and Pasta big money, (and perhaps Debrusk sooon as well) we will need to be able to balance that out with the next crop of youngsters (lottery tickets) in order to build a strong roster and stay cap compliant. I'm not saying that drafts is the only part of the strategy --- just that it is, and has to be part of the picture. You simply can't build a competitive roster by overpaying for free agents and ignoring your draft and development process. Where would we be the last 6-7 years if we didn't draft McAvoy and Pasta as first rounders? (hint --- not competing for the cup every year). We need first round picks and right now we don't have one for the next two years and barely even have any second round picks after that. We simply need to recoup some of that draft capital if we really think we can stay competitive going forward without a complete tear down. So sure, if you really thing that Sweeney should keep shuffling the deck and trading picks, and signing aging or expensive free agents as his team building strategy, knock yourself out. I just don't think that's sustainable. He pushed his chips to the center last year and I understand that (although would make an argument that he shouldn't have), now he needs to figure out how to bring draft capital back in. If we fall out of playoff contention this year. I don't know how you don't move some pieces and get back into the draft for the long term health of the franchise. If he doesn't, I predict that Sweeney is no longer the GM three years from now and we are looking at a full rebuild. And the last thing about lottery tickets ---- seems to be working out pretty good for Chicago, no? Every year teams draft players who end up being core to their franchise future. Sure it may take some of these kids a few years to marinate, but you simply can't deny that new talent comes into the league each year through the draft. Every ticket isn't a winner, but every ticket isn't a loser either. Nobody thought we were getting a 60 goal scorer when we drafted Pasta at 24. Few could have predicted how quickly McAvoy would establish himself when we drafted him at 13. You have to play the game to win. Not drafting at all for the first two rounds multiple years in a row is simply franchise suicide. I'd rather the Bruins not run the organization like our country runs our economy and environment (short term sugar high at the expense of long term pain and degradation) A lot to unpack here chappy. First, we agree about much more than it seems. It's a gray world we live in, with lots of nuance, and very little that can be nailed in a sentence or 1 thought. Going through the colors: 1. you build a franchise through improvement. part of that process is ensuring you stay "young enough". beyond that, it's just noise. the cap has made vision and competence even more important. the Bruins were pro hockeys most successful team in the 1970's. they were gutted with Bobby's knees. they lost the decades 1b player in Espo. The WHA and expansion were a double whammy. has anyone ever really studied the holes that should have decimated then early in the decade? 2. How many first rounders do the Bruins employ? a 1st rounder is a first rounder. why do we allocate so much more currency to those who are only 18? it should work the other way. We just let one go for cap space. It's a team process. 3. You don't do anything "solely" on anything. We talk about Bergy and DK and Marchy, but God knows how they could have played out, without Chara and Savard and Horton and Recchi and co. You have to be a smart leader, you have to be creative and you must make good deals 4 to 1 over bad ones. 4. see 3. 5. yup, they're getting expensive to keep around, but that's just the tip. are they worth keeping around is the question. was PK worth keeping around? was that a good deal? it's Pil Esposito all over again, and wherever you are competitively, is only a function of what you have to deal,,,in an attempt to get better. 6. Nobody should ever discount the draft. of course it's big. every team gets multiple picks every year. it's very, very important. what's most important is that it's oversold. almost half the league isn't selling it's product...it's selling hope. the rest can capitalize on that. look at the kessel, lucic years. we were selling hope when we shoulda been selling Cups. by averaging, JJ and co, sold off hi endedness for extra years of competitiveness without putting in the work. that's on Sweeney, but it's also on Chiarelli. Kessel made us a one line team. the 15 debacle made us limp diks for 2 years. In both cases, the draft capital didn't pay, it merely took tread off the tires. A visionary approach could have taken advantage of the rest of the league. 7. Yup, not drafting in the top 2 rounds is not good. no sugar coating that. 8. Chicago? we'll see. I hope I never see a Bruin team scratching for a lottery pick, and outside those, it gets real sketchy. Edmonton and Buffalo have sure cashed in, and there's nothing to see that makes them out to be the golden blueprint. I think the whole game nowdays, is simply having the most efficient roster. thats what made the bruins so strong last year. That's what could make em or break em this year. Say what you want about Taylor Hall. the Bruins dealt him, with no leverage. even though he's a pretty good player, there's the chance he can be improved upon at the deadline, and a high probability he can be improved upon before 24/25 drops the puck in game 1. If he had a higher cap hit...totally different situation. IMO, the draft is not nearly as big as it's made out to be. All that's important, is that you have a really really small number of players you can't move if you want to. with some A guys, you can't anyway, but they have to over deliver. Charlie Coyle may not be the piece that fires either top line. but if the rest of the league is salivating over his 5 mil and term...he very well could be the solution. a pick isn't. and multiple picks aren;t either. What makes this game great...is it's complicated. cheers
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Post by pastamon on Sept 19, 2023 3:08:30 GMT
B's get 7th playoff spot, win a first round playoff series, better than last year.
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Post by chappy28 on Sept 19, 2023 12:29:04 GMT
On one hand, I get the "lottery ticket" analogy. On another though, it's how you build a franchise. Home grown players (i.e. winning lottery tickets) are how you build a successful and lasting roster. When a guy "pops" in his first few years in the league he becomes a huge value to the team because his play is above his paygrade for the first couple of contracts. After that, the relationship flips and older players are often paid more than they are worth. It's just the way things go. So when you try to build a team solely on free agency and already proven players, you are paying to decrease that risk, and in a cap league that gets you in trouble. The Bruins "dynasty" that is basically turning over in the past few years was built on home grown players. Bergy, DK, Marchand, Lucic, Rask (kind of) were all mainstays of successful teams who played largely at at or below market value contracts. The best of our current core --- Pasta, McAvoy, Carlo, Debrusk are also all home grown players who have provided great value in their first couple of contracts and are only now becoming more expensive to keep around. Now that we are paying McAvoy and Pasta big money, (and perhaps Debrusk sooon as well) we will need to be able to balance that out with the next crop of youngsters (lottery tickets) in order to build a strong roster and stay cap compliant. I'm not saying that drafts is the only part of the strategy --- just that it is, and has to be part of the picture. You simply can't build a competitive roster by overpaying for free agents and ignoring your draft and development process. Where would we be the last 6-7 years if we didn't draft McAvoy and Pasta as first rounders? (hint --- not competing for the cup every year). We need first round picks and right now we don't have one for the next two years and barely even have any second round picks after that. We simply need to recoup some of that draft capital if we really think we can stay competitive going forward without a complete tear down. So sure, if you really thing that Sweeney should keep shuffling the deck and trading picks, and signing aging or expensive free agents as his team building strategy, knock yourself out. I just don't think that's sustainable. He pushed his chips to the center last year and I understand that (although would make an argument that he shouldn't have), now he needs to figure out how to bring draft capital back in. If we fall out of playoff contention this year. I don't know how you don't move some pieces and get back into the draft for the long term health of the franchise. If he doesn't, I predict that Sweeney is no longer the GM three years from now and we are looking at a full rebuild. And the last thing about lottery tickets ---- seems to be working out pretty good for Chicago, no? Every year teams draft players who end up being core to their franchise future. Sure it may take some of these kids a few years to marinate, but you simply can't deny that new talent comes into the league each year through the draft. Every ticket isn't a winner, but every ticket isn't a loser either. Nobody thought we were getting a 60 goal scorer when we drafted Pasta at 24. Few could have predicted how quickly McAvoy would establish himself when we drafted him at 13. You have to play the game to win. Not drafting at all for the first two rounds multiple years in a row is simply franchise suicide. I'd rather the Bruins not run the organization like our country runs our economy and environment (short term sugar high at the expense of long term pain and degradation) A lot to unpack here chappy. First, we agree about much more than it seems. It's a gray world we live in, with lots of nuance, and very little that can be nailed in a sentence or 1 thought. Going through the colors: 1. you build a franchise through improvement. part of that process is ensuring you stay "young enough". beyond that, it's just noise. the cap has made vision and competence even more important. the Bruins were pro hockeys most successful team in the 1970's. they were gutted with Bobby's knees. they lost the decades 1b player in Espo. The WHA and expansion were a double whammy. has anyone ever really studied the holes that should have decimated then early in the decade? 2. How many first rounders do the Bruins employ? a 1st rounder is a first rounder. why do we allocate so much more currency to those who are only 18? it should work the other way. We just let one go for cap space. It's a team process. 3. You don't do anything "solely" on anything. We talk about Bergy and DK and Marchy, but God knows how they could have played out, without Chara and Savard and Horton and Recchi and co. You have to be a smart leader, you have to be creative and you must make good deals 4 to 1 over bad ones. 4. see 3. 5. yup, they're getting expensive to keep around, but that's just the tip. are they worth keeping around is the question. was PK worth keeping around? was that a good deal? it's Pil Esposito all over again, and wherever you are competitively, is only a function of what you have to deal,,,in an attempt to get better. 6. Nobody should ever discount the draft. of course it's big. every team gets multiple picks every year. it's very, very important. what's most important is that it's oversold. almost half the league isn't selling it's product...it's selling hope. the rest can capitalize on that. look at the kessel, lucic years. we were selling hope when we shoulda been selling Cups. by averaging, JJ and co, sold off hi endedness for extra years of competitiveness without putting in the work. that's on Sweeney, but it's also on Chiarelli. Kessel made us a one line team. the 15 debacle made us limp diks for 2 years. In both cases, the draft capital didn't pay, it merely took tread off the tires. A visionary approach could have taken advantage of the rest of the league. 7. Yup, not drafting in the top 2 rounds is not good. no sugar coating that. 8. Chicago? we'll see. I hope I never see a Bruin team scratching for a lottery pick, and outside those, it gets real sketchy. Edmonton and Buffalo have sure cashed in, and there's nothing to see that makes them out to be the golden blueprint. I think the whole game nowdays, is simply having the most efficient roster. thats what made the bruins so strong last year. That's what could make em or break em this year. Say what you want about Taylor Hall. the Bruins dealt him, with no leverage. even though he's a pretty good player, there's the chance he can be improved upon at the deadline, and a high probability he can be improved upon before 24/25 drops the puck in game 1. If he had a higher cap hit...totally different situation. IMO, the draft is not nearly as big as it's made out to be. All that's important, is that you have a really really small number of players you can't move if you want to. with some A guys, you can't anyway, but they have to over deliver. Charlie Coyle may not be the piece that fires either top line. but if the rest of the league is salivating over his 5 mil and term...he very well could be the solution. a pick isn't. and multiple picks aren;t either. What makes this game great...is it's complicated. cheers OK then --- we'll lets just call it asset management. The GM's job is to maximize his return on assets in both the short (current season) and medium (3-5 year plan for the franchise) term. Draft picks are basically the only "free" assets that teams get each year in the form of one pick per round. They can trade those assets before they even pick, they can draft and develop a guy that becomes their core, they can sell high as they did with Kessel, etc. etc. The key here is that these picks give the GM a constant flow of fresh assets to manage to the betterment of the club. Now, to the efficiency angle ---- to me I think of that efficiency in terms of the gap between what you pay a guy, and what their current season play on the ice is worth in the open market. Again though here, a GM's best chance to build an efficient roster is through their draft and development pipeline because of the greater negotiating power the team has with relatively unproven talent, not to mention RFA status that gets you through those first two contracts. If we had to try to segment players into to some useful groups in order of probably efficiency, it likely goes something like this.... Rookie RFA Free Agent Pickup (low end) Aging Vet (good scenario) Home grown core player (in prime of career) Free Agent Pickup (high end) Deadline Acquisition Aging Vet (bad scenario) So if I'm a GM and putting together a team and thinking not just of the next season, but the next three to five seasons, it's hard to ignore that the draft is one of the MOST important parts of building the team. Sure there are year to year considerations in terms of where the team is in its maturity and ability to contend for the cup that are going to sway the strategy more towards the short or long term, but to me there's no escaping that without a steady pipeline or players from the draft and development function of the organization you eventually are going to have issues putting together a contending team. It may take a few years to rear it's ugly head, but it's coming nonetheless. If you look at that list above and apply it to the current state of the Bruins and the decisions of the past 5 or so years and what is clear is that we've been dabbling in the more expensive/less efficient end of that list at the expense of the most efficient options. We haven't had an impactful rookie in years outside of Swayman and even there we went out and signed a redundantly very good goalie anyways basically cancelling out the cap benefit, and may not have one for a few more although I'm pulling for Lysell, Merk and Lohrei none of which are guaranteed to work out. To make matters worse, we went BIG on deadline acquisitions last year at the expense of years worth of draft capital, and we didn't even resign a single player which is basically a sunk cost at this point never to be recouped. So what were we left with as options this year? Aging Vets. It's the only way that Sweeney could fill out the roster with no incoming talent that he was confident enough to pencil into a spot we ended up with JVR, Lucic, Heinen, Chiasson, etc just to get the proper number of bodies for the opening night roster. Sure Heinen and Chiasson are on PTO's and may not even make the team but just shows that Sweeney was bargain bin hunting out of necessity this year because all he could really do was give out short term, $1M contracts in order to stay under the cap. Now the real question that will ultimately decide how this season ends up is whether we are getting the aging vets on a positive scenario (think Mark Recchi), or the negative scenario (think Backes). Is JVR up for top six duty, or at least a solid 20-20 third line winger with some PP net front duty, or does he continue to drop off and disappoint? Will Lucic have a resurgent year in his homecoming? Or can he no longer keep up the pace under Monty's fast paced offensive system and ends up on the 7th floor most nights? To me, Charlie Coyle is irrelevant regardless of his cap hit. Nobody is salivating over Coyle, and even if we did move him, it still doesn't solve our problems up the middle. Coyle's been a pretty good (efficient) contract for the last couple years, but if we have nobody to replace him then we can't move him and that's the position we find ourselves in to this day. You can't trade away a 3C and get back a 2C.
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