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Post by kelvana33 on Jun 23, 2015 16:21:50 GMT
Agreed, but I'll take the offense he brings all day. Pair him with a Markov type and I'll live with the mistakes. Oh I agree, the offense is impressive no doubt.
By the way, I am wondering if Bergevin may be interested in moving Markov if an offer were there. He was none too impressive in the post-season and his best days are long behind him
I read that and right away I think Detroit. For some reason I tend to think Detroit has a fountain of youth for defenseman. Phaneuf? Put him there and the second half of his career he will be reborn. Same with Markov. Chelios and Larry Murphy in Detroit really left an impression on me I guess.
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Post by 50belowzero on Jun 23, 2015 16:24:36 GMT
Detroit is said to be out on the Phanoof "snail sweepstakes".
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Post by kelvana33 on Jun 23, 2015 16:28:56 GMT
Detroit is said to be out on the Phanoof "snail sweepstakes". Saw that Dreger report yesterday.
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Post by 50belowzero on Jun 23, 2015 16:33:24 GMT
Detroit is said to be out on the Phanoof "snail sweepstakes". Saw that Dreger report yesterday. Or MacKenzie, or Friedman, or Hockeybuzz, or Haggs, or McGuire, they all were the first to report it!
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Post by jmwalters on Jun 23, 2015 16:40:10 GMT
Oh I agree, the offense is impressive no doubt.
By the way, I am wondering if Bergevin may be interested in moving Markov if an offer were there. He was none too impressive in the post-season and his best days are long behind him
I read that and right away I think Detroit. For some reason I tend to think Detroit has a fountain of youth for defenseman. Phaneuf? Put him there and the second half of his career he will be reborn. Same with Markov. Chelios and Larry Murphy in Detroit really left an impression on me I guess. Remember Coffey too...I think he won his last Norris while a Wing.
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Post by 50belowzero on Jun 23, 2015 16:43:12 GMT
I read that and right away I think Detroit. For some reason I tend to think Detroit has a fountain of youth for defenseman. Phaneuf? Put him there and the second half of his career he will be reborn. Same with Markov. Chelios and Larry Murphy in Detroit really left an impression on me I guess. Remember Coffey too... I think he won his last Norris while a Wing.No, really, i thought he won them all with the Oilers, maybe one with Pitt?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2015 16:49:12 GMT
Agreed, but I'll take the offense he brings all day. Pair him with a Markov type and I'll live with the mistakes. Oh I agree, the offense is impressive no doubt.
By the way, I am wondering if Bergevin may be interested in moving Markov if an offer were there. He was none too impressive in the post-season and his best days are long behind him
The theory with Markov (and any older defenseman) is that Therrien overplayed him. I would have to agree with this theory for once. He was up around 25 minutes per game. Therrien likes to eke out every last point. Even in the last game of the year, Markov played a ton of minutes. He did get 50 points, which puts him in 11th for D scoring, and for whatever reason, he always gets a handful of Norris votes. I think he could get a good return, but I don't think they'll move him. If anyone moves, my guess would be Gilbert. He has one year left on his deal at 2.8, he's still a serviceable 4/5, even though he's the exact kind of defenseman that fans hate.
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Post by jmwalters on Jun 23, 2015 16:57:03 GMT
Remember Coffey too... I think he won his last Norris while a Wing.No, really, i thought he won them all with the Oilers, maybe one with Pitt? Jut looked it up. He won as a wing for the 94-95 season. Incredible
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Post by jmwalters on Jun 23, 2015 16:57:51 GMT
Oh I agree, the offense is impressive no doubt.
By the way, I am wondering if Bergevin may be interested in moving Markov if an offer were there. He was none too impressive in the post-season and his best days are long behind him
The theory with Markov (and any older defenseman) is that Therrien overplayed him. I would have to agree with this theory for once. He was up around 25 minutes per game. Therrien likes to eke out every last point. Even in the last game of the year, Markov played a ton of minutes. He did get 50 points, which puts him in 11th for D scoring, and for whatever reason, he always gets a handful of Norris votes. I think he could get a good return, but I don't think they'll move him. If anyone moves, my guess would be Gilbert. He has one year left on his deal at 2.8, he's still a serviceable 4/5, even though he's the exact kind of defenseman that fans hate. Except Gilbert is pretty much junk at this point unfortunately
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Post by kelvana33 on Jun 23, 2015 16:59:43 GMT
Remember Coffey too... I think he won his last Norris while a Wing.No, really, i thought he won them all with the Oilers, maybe one with Pitt? Detroit in 95. I had to look it up, I wouldn't have guessed he won one outside of Edmonton.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2015 17:54:29 GMT
The theory with Markov (and any older defenseman) is that Therrien overplayed him. I would have to agree with this theory for once. He was up around 25 minutes per game. Therrien likes to eke out every last point. Even in the last game of the year, Markov played a ton of minutes. He did get 50 points, which puts him in 11th for D scoring, and for whatever reason, he always gets a handful of Norris votes. I think he could get a good return, but I don't think they'll move him. If anyone moves, my guess would be Gilbert. He has one year left on his deal at 2.8, he's still a serviceable 4/5, even though he's the exact kind of defenseman that fans hate. Except Gilbert is pretty much junk at this point unfortunately He is what he is, a decent third pairing guy who can play on the second in a pinch. I think he would be worth a third or fourth round pick. 2.8 million isn't bad for a guy who can play 20 minutes. He got a lot better towards the end of the year, or when they took him off Emelin's pairing, depending on who you ask, haha.
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Post by jmwalters on Jun 23, 2015 17:56:53 GMT
Except Gilbert is pretty much junk at this point unfortunately He is what he is, a decent third pairing guy who can play on the second in a pinch. I think he would be worth a third or fourth round pick. 2.8 million isn't bad for a guy who can play 20 minutes. He got a lot better towards the end of the year, or when they took him off Emelin's pairing, depending on who you ask, haha. lol...speaking of overpaid (Emelin/Yemelin)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2015 22:26:18 GMT
He is what he is, a decent third pairing guy who can play on the second in a pinch. I think he would be worth a third or fourth round pick. 2.8 million isn't bad for a guy who can play 20 minutes. He got a lot better towards the end of the year, or when they took him off Emelin's pairing, depending on who you ask, haha. lol...speaking of overpaid (Emelin/Yemelin) Oh yeah. Bergevin really negotiated against himself on that one. He was signed to 4/4.5 with NMC/NTC before he came back from his knee injury.
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Post by jmwalters on Jun 24, 2015 13:25:28 GMT
lol...speaking of overpaid (Emelin/Yemelin) Oh yeah. Bergevin really negotiated against himself on that one. He was signed to 4/4.5 with NMC/NTC before he came back from his knee injury. Reminded me of when Burke in TO re-signed Liles to a 4 year $4.25mill per season deal while Liles was out with a concussion...dumb
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Post by 50belowzero on Jun 24, 2015 14:00:51 GMT
B Burke signed a few players to doozy contracts, might be a smart hockey guy in some respects, but real dumb in others. Maybe in player evaluations is where he falls down.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2015 15:31:51 GMT
Oh yeah. Bergevin really negotiated against himself on that one. He was signed to 4/4.5 with NMC/NTC before he came back from his knee injury. Reminded me of when Burke in TO re-signed Liles to a 4 year $4.25mill per season deal while Liles was out with a concussion...dumb Brian Burke .....y'all ......Brian Burke. Just kidding Nas......he's done a good job in Calgary.........staying out of the way and letting Treliving do his job.
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Post by 50belowzero on Jun 24, 2015 15:35:16 GMT
Reminded me of when Burke in TO re-signed Liles to a 4 year $4.25mill per season deal while Liles was out with a concussion...dumb Brian Burke .....y'all ......Brian Burke. Just kidding Nas......he's done a good job in Calgary........ .staying out of the way and letting Treliving do his job.He seems to be doing a good job of this so far, unless he is the string master to Treliving's puppet . Whats his job description anyway? Rubby looking, dishevelled, homeless, ruddy faced figurehead?
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Post by jmwalters on Jun 24, 2015 16:02:13 GMT
Brian Burke .....y'all ......Brian Burke. Just kidding Nas......he's done a good job in Calgary........ .staying out of the way and letting Treliving do his job.He seems to be doing a good job of this so far, unless he is the string master to Treliving's puppet . Whats his job description anyway? Rubby looking, dishevelled, homeless, ruddy faced figurehead? When in Rome.....
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2015 21:28:57 GMT
I read that and right away I think Detroit. For some reason I tend to think Detroit has a fountain of youth for defenseman. Phaneuf? Put him there and the second half of his career he will be reborn. Same with Markov. Chelios and Larry Murphy in Detroit really left an impression on me I guess. Remember Coffey too...I think he won his last Norris while a Wing. Marek Zidlicky fit like a glove there after the trade this year. He was blasting RH shots from everywhere and really fit on the PP. They missed him when he got hurt.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2015 22:53:02 GMT
Reminded me of when Burke in TO re-signed Liles to a 4 year $4.25mill per season deal while Liles was out with a concussion...dumb Brian Burke .....y'all ......Brian Burke. Just kidding Nas......he's done a good job in Calgary.........staying out of the way and letting Treliving do his job. He's entertaining, that's for sure.
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Post by bostonfan191646 on Jun 25, 2015 15:49:10 GMT
Here's my proposal, let's attack another cap strapped team, and snag marian hossa. Move smith (even though I'd like to keep him) and put him with bergeron and hope he keeps up his current level of play, which I think he will, for at least 2-3 years. I think he's a luxury the Hawks will likely not be able to afford moving forward. They could probably keep him for another year, but if his production diminishes, they can't have that 5.23 on the books with younger players taking over his current role. This is especially true if they wish to keep seabrook beyond next year. Additionally, I don't think chicago will be looking for fair value for the player, seeing as how a 36 year old with 6 years left on his contract isn't exactly enticing. However for the Bruins it wouldn't be a 6 year contract, it would be a 2 year deal with 4 option years at a 5.233 cap hit, and $1mm salary. I know Jacobs is a penny pincher, but if hossa is toast after a couple years, I don't think he would object to sending him to providence (because the extension was signed before hossa turned 35, and he doesn't have a no movement clause from what I see, they could get his money off the books in this fashion), which could cause him to retire. Here's the wrinkle, because the contract came before the most recent lockout, and he would be traded after said lockout, the recapture penalty if he retires goes to chicago, not whatever team held the contract last. Thoughts? The recapture penalties would apply to the Blackhawks AND the Bruins The Blackhawks are charged for the "cap savings" meaning the AAV - actual dollars played / remaining years on his deal after he retires. The Bruins would be charged for their "cap savings" / years left on the deal if he retired. So let's say for our purposes that he was traded this summer to Boston and retired with two years left on his deal: A) The Hawks have paid Hossa 39.5 million saving them 13.25 million. There would be two years left on his deal, so the Hawks get penalized 6.625 million for each year. B) The Bruins would be paying Hossa 13.9 million over five years, when his cap hit would be 21.1 million. Their "cap savings" would be 7.2 million. Assuming Hossa retires with two years left on his deal, those savings get divided by 2. So the Bruins would be dinged 3.6 million for the final two years of Hossa's deal, not nearly as much as Chicago, but enough to squash a potential deal. Wait a minute, the bruins wouldn't have any cap savings in that scenario, they pay less than the cap hit. There wouldn't be any recapture for them.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2015 16:54:08 GMT
The recapture penalties would apply to the Blackhawks AND the Bruins The Blackhawks are charged for the "cap savings" meaning the AAV - actual dollars played / remaining years on his deal after he retires. The Bruins would be charged for their "cap savings" / years left on the deal if he retired. So let's say for our purposes that he was traded this summer to Boston and retired with two years left on his deal: A) The Hawks have paid Hossa 39.5 million saving them 13.25 million. There would be two years left on his deal, so the Hawks get penalized 6.625 million for each year. B) The Bruins would be paying Hossa 13.9 million over five years, when his cap hit would be 21.1 million. Their "cap savings" would be 7.2 million. Assuming Hossa retires with two years left on his deal, those savings get divided by 2. So the Bruins would be dinged 3.6 million for the final two years of Hossa's deal, not nearly as much as Chicago, but enough to squash a potential deal. Wait a minute, the bruins wouldn't have any cap savings in that scenario, they pay less than the cap hit. There wouldn't be any recapture for them. The cap hit always stays the save, the AAV is what would go down to 1 million. That's why Ovechkin is never going to cost the Caps a dime if he retires, the cap hit is always the same as the AAV. It really sucks to be Chicago when Hossa retires, especially with one year left.
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Post by bostonfan191646 on Jun 25, 2015 17:05:19 GMT
Wait a minute, the bruins wouldn't have any cap savings in that scenario, they pay less than the cap hit. There wouldn't be any recapture for them. The cap hit always stays the save, the AAV is what would go down to 1 million. That's why Ovechkin is never going to cost the Caps a dime if he retires, the cap hit is always the same as the AAV. It really sucks to be Chicago when Hossa retires, especially with one year left. First off, ovechkins real salary does fluctuate, it doesn't stay the same throughout the contract. Secondly I know that the cap hit always stays the same. Ther aav doesn't go down to one million. The salary does. The aav stays at 5.233 or whatever. Recapture penalties come into effect when a team pays more to a player than the cap hit the player has. In essence, the recapture penalties get you back for giving a player more money, and having the cap not reflect it. In this scenario the bruins would be paying less to the player than his cap hit. Thus, there is nothing to recapture
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2015 23:01:30 GMT
The cap hit always stays the save, the AAV is what would go down to 1 million. That's why Ovechkin is never going to cost the Caps a dime if he retires, the cap hit is always the same as the AAV. It really sucks to be Chicago when Hossa retires, especially with one year left. First off, ovechkins real salary does fluctuate, it doesn't stay the same throughout the contract. Secondly I know that the cap hit always stays the same. Ther aav doesn't go down to one million. The salary does. The aav stays at 5.233 or whatever. Recapture penalties come into effect when a team pays more to a player than the cap hit the player has. In essence, the recapture penalties get you back for giving a player more money, and having the cap not reflect it. In this scenario the bruins would be paying less to the player than his cap hit. Thus, there is nothing to recapture That's not true, I can link some articles explaining the math if you want. In any case, isn't this the kind of thinking that burned you on Iginla...Peter?
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Post by bostonfan191646 on Jun 26, 2015 2:06:52 GMT
First off, ovechkins real salary does fluctuate, it doesn't stay the same throughout the contract. Secondly I know that the cap hit always stays the same. Ther aav doesn't go down to one million. The salary does. The aav stays at 5.233 or whatever. Recapture penalties come into effect when a team pays more to a player than the cap hit the player has. In essence, the recapture penalties get you back for giving a player more money, and having the cap not reflect it. In this scenario the bruins would be paying less to the player than his cap hit. Thus, there is nothing to recapture That's not true, I can link some articles explaining the math if you want. In any case, isn't this the kind of thinking that burned you on Iginla...Peter? I would like those links please. The whole point of recapture penalties is so you can't circumvent the cap by paying more money tha is on your cap. In this case the team would be paying less than is on their cap. And Iginla was a bonus issue. Hossa doesn't have any bonuses.
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