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Post by neelycam on Mar 26, 2018 18:56:54 GMT
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Post by Wheatskins on Mar 27, 2018 0:02:04 GMT
Babcock knows what is going on, the Leafs fans do not; they are 100% convinced that Leafs will beat Bruins in 5 games or less.
Nonetheless, the Bruins should let Babcock's praise fall off their backs into the water.
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Post by RichHillOntario on Mar 27, 2018 0:20:20 GMT
Babcock knows what is going on, the Leafs fans do not; they are 100% convinced that Leafs will beat Bruins in 5 games or less. Nonetheless, the Bruins should let Babcock's praise fall off their backs into the water. Spot on, Wheats. This afternoon on Primetime Sports, even noted Bruin reviler Jim Hughson suggested Toronto fans better not get comfortable in their seemingly year long preference to face Boston in Round One because the way the Bruins are playing right now and gradually getting their regulars back, Boston just might pass Tampa in the standings when the regular season ends. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2018 0:49:42 GMT
Babcock knows what is going on, the Leafs fans do not; they are 100% convinced that Leafs will beat Bruins in 5 games or less. Nonetheless, the Bruins should let Babcock's praise fall off their backs into the water. According to many Leafs fans ,the Bruins can be easily shut down , because they are essentially a one line team...whatever helps the sleep at night . |
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Post by RichHillOntario on Mar 27, 2018 1:35:47 GMT
Babcock knows what is going on, the Leafs fans do not; they are 100% convinced that Leafs will beat Bruins in 5 games or less. Nonetheless, the Bruins should let Babcock's praise fall off their backs into the water. According to many Leafs fans ,the Bruins can be easily shut down , because they are essentially a one line team...whatever helps the sleep at night . Whistling through the graveyard, beez. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2018 1:43:52 GMT
According to many Leafs fans ,the Bruins can be easily shut down , because they are essentially a one line team...whatever helps the sleep at night . Whistling through the graveyard, beez. Haha nice !! |
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Post by #4 Bobby Orr! GOAT! on Mar 27, 2018 2:16:41 GMT
Leafs lose 3-2 to Buf and Arizona smokes TB 4-1
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Post by davinator on Mar 27, 2018 2:48:39 GMT
Yeah, no. This is a classic case of pumping the tires of the team you're chasing in the hopes that they'll get over-confident and start believing their press. Not gonna happen. Nice try. The Bruins are on a mission...a new mission. |
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Post by UtahGetMeTwo on Mar 27, 2018 3:40:11 GMT
Babcock knows what is going on, the Leafs fans do not; they are 100% convinced that Leafs will beat Bruins in 5 games or less. Nonetheless, the Bruins should let Babcock's praise fall off their backs into the water. According to many Leafs fans ,the Bruins can be easily shut down , because they are essentially a one line team...whatever helps the sleep at night . Loafers are so delusional. |
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Post by barleytinking on Mar 27, 2018 11:30:54 GMT
The Leafs are a good team, and in a year or two will be a great team. I get to see them enough to see the changes over the last few years. Where before they ran around like chickens with their heads cut off, they now play a much better-structured game, smart outlet passes, and they have some serious talent. They still need a few things, and they won't win for another year or 2, but watch out, they are coming.
They need more depth at Wing, and a #1 D, or 2 better top end Dmen.
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Post by stevegm on Mar 27, 2018 13:17:47 GMT
The Leafs are a good team, and in a year or two will be a great team. I get to see them enough to see the changes over the last few years. Where before they ran around like chickens with their heads cut off, they now play a much better-structured game, smart outlet passes, and they have some serious talent. They still need a few things, and they won't win for another year or 2, but watch out, they are coming. They need more depth at Wing, and a #1 D, or 2 better top end Dmen. they are a good team. they have some serious talent, but getting to that next stage, is a whole different kettle of fish. a lot of people think it's just a matter of another year or so, but what many don't realize is just how incredibly tough it is to get there. the honeymoon of "addition" has pretty much passed, meaning they're soon going to start worrying as much about who they can keep, as who they'd like to go after. imo, they need 3 skilled players, and they don't come out of nowhere, and those skilled players have to "fit". personally, I don't think it's a matter of time. it's a matter of finding out if the Mariners, and Nylanders, and Matthews can thrive at the toughest time of the year, and whether management can "find", then "fit in" those necessary other pieces. hockey history is littered with promising teams that never made that next step. Mid 70's Buffalo, comes quickly to mind.
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Post by 50belowzero on Mar 27, 2018 14:22:42 GMT
Yeah, Babcrock is just playing to the press drivelers, i'm sure he knows his team will have to go through the B's at some point to get to where he wants to go. TO has a good up & coming team, but like with any team with talent there will be challenges ahead. 35 gl scorer Van Riemsdyk is a UFA this summer and at some point Matthews, Marner and Nylander will need new deals. The TO defence could also use some work as they give up the most shots in the league or very close to it. We'll see how they handle all that going forward. But then i've read from TO fans that there will be no problems because they're signing Tavares in UFA and trading for Doughty, everything is grand in LeRfLand.
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Post by barleytinking on Mar 27, 2018 16:29:09 GMT
The Leafs are a good team, and in a year or two will be a great team. I get to see them enough to see the changes over the last few years. Where before they ran around like chickens with their heads cut off, they now play a much better-structured game, smart outlet passes, and they have some serious talent. They still need a few things, and they won't win for another year or 2, but watch out, they are coming. They need more depth at Wing, and a #1 D, or 2 better top end Dmen. they are a good team. they have some serious talent, but getting to that next stage, is a whole different kettle of fish. a lot of people think it's just a matter of another year or so, but what many don't realize is just how incredibly tough it is to get there. the honeymoon of "addition" has pretty much passed, meaning they're soon going to start worrying as much about who they can keep, as who they'd like to go after. imo, they need 3 skilled players, and they don't come out of nowhere, and those skilled players have to "fit". personally, I don't think it's a matter of time. it's a matter of finding out if the Mariners, and Nylanders, and Matthews can thrive at the toughest time of the year, and whether management can "find", then "fit in" those necessary other pieces. hockey history is littered with promising teams that never made that next step. Mid 70's Buffalo, comes quickly to mind.
Absolutely we've all seen some promising teams come and go, but this Matthews guy (if healthy) is the real deal. And the Management Team is First rate. Lou knows how to put a team together. They still have, much like the Bruins, lots of young prospects coming along. I'll always have 2013 to throw in their faces, so I can now enjoy with the Leafs Fans, their team. I can do this now as an old man. BUT never for the schabs though.
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Post by bookboy007 on Mar 27, 2018 16:57:55 GMT
The Leafs are a good team, and in a year or two will be a great team. I get to see them enough to see the changes over the last few years. Where before they ran around like chickens with their heads cut off, they now play a much better-structured game, smart outlet passes, and they have some serious talent. They still need a few things, and they won't win for another year or 2, but watch out, they are coming. They need more depth at Wing, and a #1 D, or 2 better top end Dmen. A lot will dépend on the Cap. I think it’s going to be tough for them when JvR moves on and Bozak goes. That money will be necessary to sign Marner, Nylander and then Matthews and I do not expect Matthews to give Lou a discount. Once those young guns are required to carry the load alone, or with just Kadri, Marleau and Komarov for support, it will be their next gen draftees and signings that make a difference between the Whale hole and legit contention. |
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Post by bookboy007 on Mar 27, 2018 18:44:07 GMT
Absolutely we've all seen some promising teams come and go, but this Matthews guy (if healthy) is the real deal. And the Management Team is First rate. Lou knows how to put a team together. They still have, much like the Bruins, lots of young prospects coming along. I'll always have 2013 to throw in their faces, so I can now enjoy with the Leafs Fans, their team. I can do this now as an old man. BUT never for the schabs though.
Call me crazy, but I decided I needed to look at the fate of teams with the top pick over the last little while. I've long nursed a distaste for the "blow it up" and "fail to rise" strategy where teams divest themselves of everything but the kitchen sink, draft as high as possible, and then sit back with a cigar and wait. This is partly why. Hischier NJD - Devils won the lottery and added a talented player to a team already on the rise with established players like Hall, Palmieri and Schnieder. Likely to miss the playoffs. Too early to say what impact Hischier really had, but he's a bit of an outlier. #Buston TOR - He's been huge for them, but see previous post on how difficult it's going to be to keep the band together. McDavid EDM - Missed the playoffs his first year in part because he was injured. Won the Ross, Hart the next year and took Edmonton to the second round for the first time in his lifetime (almost). But now missing the playoffs. And next year, getting a buttload of cash that will make it difficult to find solutions. Ekblad FLA - Excellent player whose offensive game is starting to grow. Despite Barkov and Huberdeau as fellow top 3 picks and "hits" in the draft like Trochek, the Panthers have played 6 playoff games in his career. Thanks in part to his growth, they may make the playoffs this year, and with the big three locked up at good numbers, they'll have some cash to add in the offseason. Kate MacKinnon COL - Hart candidate this year, but played 7 playoff games as a rookie and hasn't sniffed teh playoffs since. Avs are trending upward tahnks to the Douche trade and MacKinnon's breakout year, but still sit as a bubble team chasing LA and the Quacks but vulnerable to being out since STL has a game in hand and sit a point back. Yak EDM - see McDavid. Total bust. Teams have given up on him and he's now a bit player in Colorado. RNH EDM - see McDavid. Injured after a great start to his career, when he should probably have been sent back to get bigger, RNH is at best a second line C right now on a terrible team. Hall EDM - see McDavid, Hischier. Never sniffed the playoffs in his career. He'll be 27 next year. Tavares NYI...for now. I see now why Burke wouldn't part with Luke Schenn in any deal to acquire the #1 pick from the Isles at the time. JT has been a great player for a long time for that franchise, and for very little money really if you consider he has to live in New York for the season. Made the playoffs just 3 times in 9 years in Highliner Blue, won just one round, and will miss the dance again this year. Stamkos TBY - He's had a couple of significant kicks at the can in his career, but notably, he came into a team with veteran leadership and talent like St. Louis, Lecavalier, and Ryan Malone who had Cups behind them in the recent past. As the top dog there, he has had one good run. Injuries have derailed him to some degree including the gross broken leg v Boston. Patrick Kane CHI - Gold Standard. Result of a lottery win. Benefitted from being the last step in rebuild and not the first. In the years immediately prior to Kane's arrival, the Hawks drafted Toews, Hjalmarsson, Bolland, Bickell, Brouwer, Seabrook, Crawford, Byfuglien, Kieth, Wizniewski and Burish. Whole different ballgame...except when compared to Edmonton which is the same ballgame played by the Bad News Bears pre Walter Matthau. Erik Johnson STL - Traded just three years after he was drafted because he's never become a true offensive threat. Injuries have hurt him. 11 year career; 7 playoff games. Crosby PIT - Generational player, but he also was the last of four high picks with Fleury and Malkin going top two before him. Ovechkin WAS - Generation player, but he's still looking to get to the third round. Fleury PIT - See Crosby. Checkered career punctuated by a Cup, playoff flameouts reminiscent of his fail vs Patrick O'Sullivan at the WJHC, and losing his job to a rookie on the way to collecting his latest two rings followed by a new lease in Vejas. Nash COL - 1060 NHL games, 77 playoff games. Missed the playoffs 7 of 8 years with Columbus and got swept the other, so never won a playoff game until the trade to NYR. Finals appearance where he was a bit disappointing before finally getting his first ring in 2018.... Kovalchuk ATL - F**k that guy. Big numbers; never won a playoff game in ATL (swept their only appearance) and won just one his first year in the playoffs with NJD before the run to the Finals. Of course, we don't know if that was the beginning of a new world for him because he quit and went home to Russia. Rick DiPietro, Patrick Stefan. Hahahahahahahahahahahaha! Vinny Lecavalier TBY - the Michael Jordan of hockey. Won a cup, but only made the playoffs 7 of 17 seasons, making the second round 3 times, the third round twice and the Finals just the once. JT Superstar BOS - everything that's wrong with hockey and beards. Played 17 playoff games his first two years because Boston made a remarkable turnaround with a cast of new acquistions. Allison was a star, Samsonov and Kristich huge, Bourque still amazing, DaFoe the unexpected goaltending solution, and Carter and Heinze stepped up big. Thornton was a bit player. The more central he became the worse the playoff results. After the first round win over Carolina in his sophomore year, he never won another round and only won a total of 6 playoff games in the next 5 years combined. You could keep going back to Chris Phillips, Berard, Daiglow Abortions, Hamrlik, Nolan..... The point of all of this is that even some legit superstar players like Nash, Kovalchuk, Tavares, Ovechkin...and sure, throw in Hall...fail to turn you around unless you have the lower cost depth, plan and team structure. The Laffs have a lot of room to play next year with Nylander first to the window, but that's only a reflection of JvR, Pleckanec, Bozak and Komarov coming up UFA. Polak too. The next year, it's Marner and Matthews and Kapanen (lol). They have done a very good job of planning their contracts so that they are well protected against piracy - they have lots of cash - but in two years, when the trio of young forwards add some $20M to their cap, they'll have about $20M for 4 top 9 forwards and two top 4 D. Doable, but that's a lot of uncertainty. |
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Post by 50belowzero on Mar 27, 2018 19:41:35 GMT
Nash COL - 1060 NHL games, 77 playoff games. Missed the playoffs 7 of 8 years with Columbus and got swept the other, so never won a playoff game until the trade to NYR. Finals appearance where he was a bit disappointing before finally getting his first ring in 2018.... Oh yeah baby! |
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Post by stevegm on Mar 27, 2018 20:02:10 GMT
Call me crazy, but I decided I needed to look at the fate of teams with the top pick over the last little while. I've long nursed a distaste for the "blow it up" and "fail to rise" strategy where teams divest themselves of everything but the kitchen sink, draft as high as possible, and then sit back with a cigar and wait. This is partly why. Hischier NJD - Devils won the lottery and added a talented player to a team already on the rise with established players like Hall, Palmieri and Schnieder. Likely to miss the playoffs. Too early to say what impact Hischier really had, but he's a bit of an outlier. #Buston TOR - He's been huge for them, but see previous post on how difficult it's going to be to keep the band together. McDavid EDM - Missed the playoffs his first year in part because he was injured. Won the Ross, Hart the next year and took Edmonton to the second round for the first time in his lifetime (almost). But now missing the playoffs. And next year, getting a buttload of cash that will make it difficult to find solutions. Ekblad FLA - Excellent player whose offensive game is starting to grow. Despite Barkov and Huberdeau as fellow top 3 picks and "hits" in the draft like Trochek, the Panthers have played 6 playoff games in his career. Thanks in part to his growth, they may make the playoffs this year, and with the big three locked up at good numbers, they'll have some cash to add in the offseason. Kate MacKinnon COL - Hart candidate this year, but played 7 playoff games as a rookie and hasn't sniffed teh playoffs since. Avs are trending upward tahnks to the Douche trade and MacKinnon's breakout year, but still sit as a bubble team chasing LA and the Quacks but vulnerable to being out since STL has a game in hand and sit a point back. Yak EDM - see McDavid. Total bust. Teams have given up on him and he's now a bit player in Colorado. RNH EDM - see McDavid. Injured after a great start to his career, when he should probably have been sent back to get bigger, RNH is at best a second line C right now on a terrible team. Hall EDM - see McDavid, Hischier. Never sniffed the playoffs in his career. He'll be 27 next year. Tavares NYI...for now. I see now why Burke wouldn't part with Luke Schenn in any deal to acquire the #1 pick from the Isles at the time. JT has been a great player for a long time for that franchise, and for very little money really if you consider he has to live in New York for the season. Made the playoffs just 3 times in 9 years in Highliner Blue, won just one round, and will miss the dance again this year. Stamkos TBY - He's had a couple of significant kicks at the can in his career, but notably, he came into a team with veteran leadership and talent like St. Louis, Lecavalier, and Ryan Malone who had Cups behind them in the recent past. As the top dog there, he has had one good run. Injuries have derailed him to some degree including the gross broken leg v Boston. Patrick Kane CHI - Gold Standard. Result of a lottery win. Benefitted from being the last step in rebuild and not the first. In the years immediately prior to Kane's arrival, the Hawks drafted Toews, Hjalmarsson, Bolland, Bickell, Brouwer, Seabrook, Crawford, Byfuglien, Kieth, Wizniewski and Burish. Whole different ballgame...except when compared to Edmonton which is the same ballgame played by the Bad News Bears pre Walter Matthau. Erik Johnson STL - Traded just three years after he was drafted because he's never become a true offensive threat. Injuries have hurt him. 11 year career; 7 playoff games. Crosby PIT - Generational player, but he also was the last of four high picks with Fleury and Malkin going top two before him. Ovechkin WAS - Generation player, but he's still looking to get to the third round. Fleury PIT - See Crosby. Checkered career punctuated by a Cup, playoff flameouts reminiscent of his fail vs Patrick O'Sullivan at the WJHC, and losing his job to a rookie on the way to collecting his latest two rings followed by a new lease in Vejas. Nash COL - 1060 NHL games, 77 playoff games. Missed the playoffs 7 of 8 years with Columbus and got swept the other, so never won a playoff game until the trade to NYR. Finals appearance where he was a bit disappointing before finally getting his first ring in 2018.... Kovalchuk ATL - F**k that guy. Big numbers; never won a playoff game in ATL (swept their only appearance) and won just one his first year in the playoffs with NJD before the run to the Finals. Of course, we don't know if that was the beginning of a new world for him because he quit and went home to Russia. Rick DiPietro, Patrick Stefan. Hahahahahahahahahahahaha! Vinny Lecavalier TBY - the Michael Jordan of hockey. Won a cup, but only made the playoffs 7 of 17 seasons, making the second round 3 times, the third round twice and the Finals just the once. JT Superstar BOS - everything that's wrong with hockey and beards. Played 17 playoff games his first two years because Boston made a remarkable turnaround with a cast of new acquistions. Allison was a star, Samsonov and Kristich huge, Bourque still amazing, DaFoe the unexpected goaltending solution, and Carter and Heinze stepped up big. Thornton was a bit player. The more central he became the worse the playoff results. After the first round win over Carolina in his sophomore year, he never won another round and only won a total of 6 playoff games in the next 5 years combined. You could keep going back to Chris Phillips, Berard, Daiglow Abortions, Hamrlik, Nolan..... The point of all of this is that even some legit superstar players like Nash, Kovalchuk, Tavares, Ovechkin...and sure, throw in Hall...fail to turn you around unless you have the lower cost depth, plan and team structure. The Laffs have a lot of room to play next year with Nylander first to the window, but that's only a reflection of JvR, Pleckanec, Bozak and Komarov coming up UFA. Polak too. The next year, it's Marner and Matthews and Kapanen (lol). They have done a very good job of planning their contracts so that they are well protected against piracy - they have lots of cash - but in two years, when the trio of young forwards add some $20M to their cap, they'll have about $20M for 4 top 9 forwards and two top 4 D. Doable, but that's a lot of uncertainty. I've always wanted to do a novel like this, but it's a lot of work. love the "cigar' inference. thanks. anyway, for any doubters, this should put team building into a clearer perspective. As soon as one bullet is dodged, you cannot avoid the ambush that is coming tomorrow. and that doesn;'t take into account what may be available to you...or put better, what's out there that you really want...but can't get.
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Post by vice on Mar 27, 2018 21:06:18 GMT
Call me crazy, but I decided I needed to look at the fate of teams with the top pick over the last little while. I've long nursed a distaste for the "blow it up" and "fail to rise" strategy where teams divest themselves of everything but the kitchen sink, draft as high as possible, and then sit back with a cigar and wait. This is partly why. Hischier NJD - Devils won the lottery and added a talented player to a team already on the rise with established players like Hall, Palmieri and Schnieder. Likely to miss the playoffs. Too early to say what impact Hischier really had, but he's a bit of an outlier. #Buston TOR - He's been huge for them, but see previous post on how difficult it's going to be to keep the band together. McDavid EDM - Missed the playoffs his first year in part because he was injured. Won the Ross, Hart the next year and took Edmonton to the second round for the first time in his lifetime (almost). But now missing the playoffs. And next year, getting a buttload of cash that will make it difficult to find solutions. Ekblad FLA - Excellent player whose offensive game is starting to grow. Despite Barkov and Huberdeau as fellow top 3 picks and "hits" in the draft like Trochek, the Panthers have played 6 playoff games in his career. Thanks in part to his growth, they may make the playoffs this year, and with the big three locked up at good numbers, they'll have some cash to add in the offseason. Kate MacKinnon COL - Hart candidate this year, but played 7 playoff games as a rookie and hasn't sniffed teh playoffs since. Avs are trending upward tahnks to the Douche trade and MacKinnon's breakout year, but still sit as a bubble team chasing LA and the Quacks but vulnerable to being out since STL has a game in hand and sit a point back. Yak EDM - see McDavid. Total bust. Teams have given up on him and he's now a bit player in Colorado. RNH EDM - see McDavid. Injured after a great start to his career, when he should probably have been sent back to get bigger, RNH is at best a second line C right now on a terrible team. Hall EDM - see McDavid, Hischier. Never sniffed the playoffs in his career. He'll be 27 next year. Tavares NYI...for now. I see now why Burke wouldn't part with Luke Schenn in any deal to acquire the #1 pick from the Isles at the time. JT has been a great player for a long time for that franchise, and for very little money really if you consider he has to live in New York for the season. Made the playoffs just 3 times in 9 years in Highliner Blue, won just one round, and will miss the dance again this year. Stamkos TBY - He's had a couple of significant kicks at the can in his career, but notably, he came into a team with veteran leadership and talent like St. Louis, Lecavalier, and Ryan Malone who had Cups behind them in the recent past. As the top dog there, he has had one good run. Injuries have derailed him to some degree including the gross broken leg v Boston. Patrick Kane CHI - Gold Standard. Result of a lottery win. Benefitted from being the last step in rebuild and not the first. In the years immediately prior to Kane's arrival, the Hawks drafted Toews, Hjalmarsson, Bolland, Bickell, Brouwer, Seabrook, Crawford, Byfuglien, Kieth, Wizniewski and Burish. Whole different ballgame...except when compared to Edmonton which is the same ballgame played by the Bad News Bears pre Walter Matthau. Erik Johnson STL - Traded just three years after he was drafted because he's never become a true offensive threat. Injuries have hurt him. 11 year career; 7 playoff games. Crosby PIT - Generational player, but he also was the last of four high picks with Fleury and Malkin going top two before him. Ovechkin WAS - Generation player, but he's still looking to get to the third round. Fleury PIT - See Crosby. Checkered career punctuated by a Cup, playoff flameouts reminiscent of his fail vs Patrick O'Sullivan at the WJHC, and losing his job to a rookie on the way to collecting his latest two rings followed by a new lease in Vejas. Nash COL - 1060 NHL games, 77 playoff games. Missed the playoffs 7 of 8 years with Columbus and got swept the other, so never won a playoff game until the trade to NYR. Finals appearance where he was a bit disappointing before finally getting his first ring in 2018.... Kovalchuk ATL - F**k that guy. Big numbers; never won a playoff game in ATL (swept their only appearance) and won just one his first year in the playoffs with NJD before the run to the Finals. Of course, we don't know if that was the beginning of a new world for him because he quit and went home to Russia. Rick DiPietro, Patrick Stefan. Hahahahahahahahahahahaha! Vinny Lecavalier TBY - the Michael Jordan of hockey. Won a cup, but only made the playoffs 7 of 17 seasons, making the second round 3 times, the third round twice and the Finals just the once. JT Superstar BOS - everything that's wrong with hockey and beards. Played 17 playoff games his first two years because Boston made a remarkable turnaround with a cast of new acquistions. Allison was a star, Samsonov and Kristich huge, Bourque still amazing, DaFoe the unexpected goaltending solution, and Carter and Heinze stepped up big. Thornton was a bit player. The more central he became the worse the playoff results. After the first round win over Carolina in his sophomore year, he never won another round and only won a total of 6 playoff games in the next 5 years combined. You could keep going back to Chris Phillips, Berard, Daiglow Abortions, Hamrlik, Nolan..... The point of all of this is that even some legit superstar players like Nash, Kovalchuk, Tavares, Ovechkin...and sure, throw in Hall...fail to turn you around unless you have the lower cost depth, plan and team structure. The Laffs have a lot of room to play next year with Nylander first to the window, but that's only a reflection of JvR, Pleckanec, Bozak and Komarov coming up UFA. Polak too. The next year, it's Marner and Matthews and Kapanen (lol). They have done a very good job of planning their contracts so that they are well protected against piracy - they have lots of cash - but in two years, when the trio of young forwards add some $20M to their cap, they'll have about $20M for 4 top 9 forwards and two top 4 D. Doable, but that's a lot of uncertainty. I took a nap, masterbatted twice, and resingled my roof while reading this. Jk 🤓 Very informative post, amazing how much hockey is a team sport, down to coaching, administrative, scouting etc |
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Post by barleytinking on Mar 27, 2018 21:24:07 GMT
Call me crazy, but I decided I needed to look at the fate of teams with the top pick over the last little while. I've long nursed a distaste for the "blow it up" and "fail to rise" strategy where teams divest themselves of everything but the kitchen sink, draft as high as possible, and then sit back with a cigar and wait. This is partly why. Hischier NJD - Devils won the lottery and added a talented player to a team already on the rise with established players like Hall, Palmieri and Schnieder. Likely to miss the playoffs. Too early to say what impact Hischier really had, but he's a bit of an outlier. #Buston TOR - He's been huge for them, but see previous post on how difficult it's going to be to keep the band together. McDavid EDM - Missed the playoffs his first year in part because he was injured. Won the Ross, Hart the next year and took Edmonton to the second round for the first time in his lifetime (almost). But now missing the playoffs. And next year, getting a buttload of cash that will make it difficult to find solutions. Ekblad FLA - Excellent player whose offensive game is starting to grow. Despite Barkov and Huberdeau as fellow top 3 picks and "hits" in the draft like Trochek, the Panthers have played 6 playoff games in his career. Thanks in part to his growth, they may make the playoffs this year, and with the big three locked up at good numbers, they'll have some cash to add in the offseason. Kate MacKinnon COL - Hart candidate this year, but played 7 playoff games as a rookie and hasn't sniffed teh playoffs since. Avs are trending upward tahnks to the Douche trade and MacKinnon's breakout year, but still sit as a bubble team chasing LA and the Quacks but vulnerable to being out since STL has a game in hand and sit a point back. Yak EDM - see McDavid. Total bust. Teams have given up on him and he's now a bit player in Colorado. RNH EDM - see McDavid. Injured after a great start to his career, when he should probably have been sent back to get bigger, RNH is at best a second line C right now on a terrible team. Hall EDM - see McDavid, Hischier. Never sniffed the playoffs in his career. He'll be 27 next year. Tavares NYI...for now. I see now why Burke wouldn't part with Luke Schenn in any deal to acquire the #1 pick from the Isles at the time. JT has been a great player for a long time for that franchise, and for very little money really if you consider he has to live in New York for the season. Made the playoffs just 3 times in 9 years in Highliner Blue, won just one round, and will miss the dance again this year. Stamkos TBY - He's had a couple of significant kicks at the can in his career, but notably, he came into a team with veteran leadership and talent like St. Louis, Lecavalier, and Ryan Malone who had Cups behind them in the recent past. As the top dog there, he has had one good run. Injuries have derailed him to some degree including the gross broken leg v Boston. Patrick Kane CHI - Gold Standard. Result of a lottery win. Benefitted from being the last step in rebuild and not the first. In the years immediately prior to Kane's arrival, the Hawks drafted Toews, Hjalmarsson, Bolland, Bickell, Brouwer, Seabrook, Crawford, Byfuglien, Kieth, Wizniewski and Burish. Whole different ballgame...except when compared to Edmonton which is the same ballgame played by the Bad News Bears pre Walter Matthau. Erik Johnson STL - Traded just three years after he was drafted because he's never become a true offensive threat. Injuries have hurt him. 11 year career; 7 playoff games. Crosby PIT - Generational player, but he also was the last of four high picks with Fleury and Malkin going top two before him. Ovechkin WAS - Generation player, but he's still looking to get to the third round. Fleury PIT - See Crosby. Checkered career punctuated by a Cup, playoff flameouts reminiscent of his fail vs Patrick O'Sullivan at the WJHC, and losing his job to a rookie on the way to collecting his latest two rings followed by a new lease in Vejas. Nash COL - 1060 NHL games, 77 playoff games. Missed the playoffs 7 of 8 years with Columbus and got swept the other, so never won a playoff game until the trade to NYR. Finals appearance where he was a bit disappointing before finally getting his first ring in 2018.... Kovalchuk ATL - F**k that guy. Big numbers; never won a playoff game in ATL (swept their only appearance) and won just one his first year in the playoffs with NJD before the run to the Finals. Of course, we don't know if that was the beginning of a new world for him because he quit and went home to Russia. Rick DiPietro, Patrick Stefan. Hahahahahahahahahahahaha! Vinny Lecavalier TBY - the Michael Jordan of hockey. Won a cup, but only made the playoffs 7 of 17 seasons, making the second round 3 times, the third round twice and the Finals just the once. JT Superstar BOS - everything that's wrong with hockey and beards. Played 17 playoff games his first two years because Boston made a remarkable turnaround with a cast of new acquistions. Allison was a star, Samsonov and Kristich huge, Bourque still amazing, DaFoe the unexpected goaltending solution, and Carter and Heinze stepped up big. Thornton was a bit player. The more central he became the worse the playoff results. After the first round win over Carolina in his sophomore year, he never won another round and only won a total of 6 playoff games in the next 5 years combined. You could keep going back to Chris Phillips, Berard, Daiglow Abortions, Hamrlik, Nolan..... The point of all of this is that even some legit superstar players like Nash, Kovalchuk, Tavares, Ovechkin...and sure, throw in Hall...fail to turn you around unless you have the lower cost depth, plan and team structure. The Laffs have a lot of room to play next year with Nylander first to the window, but that's only a reflection of JvR, Pleckanec, Bozak and Komarov coming up UFA. Polak too. The next year, it's Marner and Matthews and Kapanen (lol). They have done a very good job of planning their contracts so that they are well protected against piracy - they have lots of cash - but in two years, when the trio of young forwards add some $20M to their cap, they'll have about $20M for 4 top 9 forwards and two top 4 D. Doable, but that's a lot of uncertainty. There a reason I always look for your novels. "Finals appearance where he was a bit disappointing before finally getting his first ring in 2018...." Crack me up. Anything else I have to say gets lost to that one. Still my favourite Poster. |
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Post by #4 Bobby Orr! GOAT! on Mar 27, 2018 21:38:31 GMT
His prediction is Boa Nas in finals then. So be it |
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Post by bookboy007 on Mar 27, 2018 22:08:55 GMT
I took a nap, masterbatted twice, and resingled my roof while reading this. Jk 🤓 Very informative post, amazing how much hockey is a team sport, down to coaching, administrative, scouting etc I don't believe you were kidding...about part of it at least. I think when we look at something like that, we usually come down on this idea - that it's such a team game and so much is about system and chemistry and who you have around you. We never look at the other side and wonder if maybe we fetishize the high end scoring talents more than we should. Well...let me rephrase that. WE as fans love the slick mitts and the guys like Marchand who can WHOOP! between two defenders and end up heads up with the goalie between the circles. Or the young Ovechkins who just do everything at 100 miles an hour and love to score like nite loves dingdongs (take that however you want...). And hell, we should, because that's what gets you out of your seats. Briefly. But I didn't sit for a week in 2011 when they won the Cup, and maybe if you go all in on those kinds of superstars, the necessary costs to teambuilding in a cap era mean you get the momentary standing O but not the week long parade style. The two exceptions in recent memory not only drafted high for a few years after long futility, but they got lucky to have those picks in the right years - Malkin and Crosby. Kane and Toews. Edmonton needed maybe Hall and McDavid in a shorter window and no dalliance with Yak and RNH. |
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Post by bookboy007 on Mar 27, 2018 22:09:45 GMT
Call me crazy, but I decided I needed to look at the fate of teams with the top pick over the last little while. I've long nursed a distaste for the "blow it up" and "fail to rise" strategy where teams divest themselves of everything but the kitchen sink, draft as high as possible, and then sit back with a cigar and wait. This is partly why. Hischier NJD - Devils won the lottery and added a talented player to a team already on the rise with established players like Hall, Palmieri and Schnieder. Likely to miss the playoffs. Too early to say what impact Hischier really had, but he's a bit of an outlier. #Buston TOR - He's been huge for them, but see previous post on how difficult it's going to be to keep the band together. McDavid EDM - Missed the playoffs his first year in part because he was injured. Won the Ross, Hart the next year and took Edmonton to the second round for the first time in his lifetime (almost). But now missing the playoffs. And next year, getting a buttload of cash that will make it difficult to find solutions. Ekblad FLA - Excellent player whose offensive game is starting to grow. Despite Barkov and Huberdeau as fellow top 3 picks and "hits" in the draft like Trochek, the Panthers have played 6 playoff games in his career. Thanks in part to his growth, they may make the playoffs this year, and with the big three locked up at good numbers, they'll have some cash to add in the offseason. Kate MacKinnon COL - Hart candidate this year, but played 7 playoff games as a rookie and hasn't sniffed teh playoffs since. Avs are trending upward tahnks to the Douche trade and MacKinnon's breakout year, but still sit as a bubble team chasing LA and the Quacks but vulnerable to being out since STL has a game in hand and sit a point back. Yak EDM - see McDavid. Total bust. Teams have given up on him and he's now a bit player in Colorado. RNH EDM - see McDavid. Injured after a great start to his career, when he should probably have been sent back to get bigger, RNH is at best a second line C right now on a terrible team. Hall EDM - see McDavid, Hischier. Never sniffed the playoffs in his career. He'll be 27 next year. Tavares NYI...for now. I see now why Burke wouldn't part with Luke Schenn in any deal to acquire the #1 pick from the Isles at the time. JT has been a great player for a long time for that franchise, and for very little money really if you consider he has to live in New York for the season. Made the playoffs just 3 times in 9 years in Highliner Blue, won just one round, and will miss the dance again this year. Stamkos TBY - He's had a couple of significant kicks at the can in his career, but notably, he came into a team with veteran leadership and talent like St. Louis, Lecavalier, and Ryan Malone who had Cups behind them in the recent past. As the top dog there, he has had one good run. Injuries have derailed him to some degree including the gross broken leg v Boston. Patrick Kane CHI - Gold Standard. Result of a lottery win. Benefitted from being the last step in rebuild and not the first. In the years immediately prior to Kane's arrival, the Hawks drafted Toews, Hjalmarsson, Bolland, Bickell, Brouwer, Seabrook, Crawford, Byfuglien, Kieth, Wizniewski and Burish. Whole different ballgame...except when compared to Edmonton which is the same ballgame played by the Bad News Bears pre Walter Matthau. Erik Johnson STL - Traded just three years after he was drafted because he's never become a true offensive threat. Injuries have hurt him. 11 year career; 7 playoff games. Crosby PIT - Generational player, but he also was the last of four high picks with Fleury and Malkin going top two before him. Ovechkin WAS - Generation player, but he's still looking to get to the third round. Fleury PIT - See Crosby. Checkered career punctuated by a Cup, playoff flameouts reminiscent of his fail vs Patrick O'Sullivan at the WJHC, and losing his job to a rookie on the way to collecting his latest two rings followed by a new lease in Vejas. Nash COL - 1060 NHL games, 77 playoff games. Missed the playoffs 7 of 8 years with Columbus and got swept the other, so never won a playoff game until the trade to NYR. Finals appearance where he was a bit disappointing before finally getting his first ring in 2018.... Kovalchuk ATL - F**k that guy. Big numbers; never won a playoff game in ATL (swept their only appearance) and won just one his first year in the playoffs with NJD before the run to the Finals. Of course, we don't know if that was the beginning of a new world for him because he quit and went home to Russia. Rick DiPietro, Patrick Stefan. Hahahahahahahahahahahaha! Vinny Lecavalier TBY - the Michael Jordan of hockey. Won a cup, but only made the playoffs 7 of 17 seasons, making the second round 3 times, the third round twice and the Finals just the once. JT Superstar BOS - everything that's wrong with hockey and beards. Played 17 playoff games his first two years because Boston made a remarkable turnaround with a cast of new acquistions. Allison was a star, Samsonov and Kristich huge, Bourque still amazing, DaFoe the unexpected goaltending solution, and Carter and Heinze stepped up big. Thornton was a bit player. The more central he became the worse the playoff results. After the first round win over Carolina in his sophomore year, he never won another round and only won a total of 6 playoff games in the next 5 years combined. You could keep going back to Chris Phillips, Berard, Daiglow Abortions, Hamrlik, Nolan..... The point of all of this is that even some legit superstar players like Nash, Kovalchuk, Tavares, Ovechkin...and sure, throw in Hall...fail to turn you around unless you have the lower cost depth, plan and team structure. The Laffs have a lot of room to play next year with Nylander first to the window, but that's only a reflection of JvR, Pleckanec, Bozak and Komarov coming up UFA. Polak too. The next year, it's Marner and Matthews and Kapanen (lol). They have done a very good job of planning their contracts so that they are well protected against piracy - they have lots of cash - but in two years, when the trio of young forwards add some $20M to their cap, they'll have about $20M for 4 top 9 forwards and two top 4 D. Doable, but that's a lot of uncertainty. There a reason I always look for your novels. "Finals appearance where he was a bit disappointing before finally getting his first ring in 2018...." Crack me up. Anything else I have to say gets lost to that one. Still my favourite Poster. Thanks BT. Obviously I love talking hockey. |
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Post by The OC on Mar 28, 2018 0:07:42 GMT
I took a nap, masterbatted twice, and resingled my roof while reading this. Jk 🤓 Very informative post, amazing how much hockey is a team sport, down to coaching, administrative, scouting etc I don't believe you were kidding...about part of it at least. I think when we look at something like that, we usually come down on this idea - that it's such a team game and so much is about system and chemistry and who you have around you. We never look at the other side and wonder if maybe we fetishize the high end scoring talents more than we should. Well...let me rephrase that. WE as fans love the slick mitts and the guys like Marchand who can WHOOP! between two defenders and end up heads up with the goalie between the circles. Or the young Ovechkins who just do everything at 100 miles an hour and love to score like nite loves dingdongs (take that however you want...). And hell, we should, because that's what gets you out of your seats. Briefly. But I didn't sit for a week in 2011 when they won the Cup, and maybe if you go all in on those kinds of superstars, the necessary costs to teambuilding in a cap era mean you get the momentary standing O but not the week long parade style. The two exceptions in recent memory not only drafted high for a few years after long futility, but they got lucky to have those picks in the right years - Malkin and Crosby. Kane and Toews. Edmonton needed maybe Hall and McDavid in a shorter window and no dalliance with Yak and RNH. The problem with your lengthy prose is that you're looking at it in the wrong direction. Yes, every team that picks first doesn't win the cup, but almost every team that wins the cup starts with some top picks. The last 9 cups have been won by 4 teams. All had elite players picked with elite picks: Pittsburgh: Crosby, Malkin, Fleury Chicago: Kane, Toews LA: Doughtey, Kopitar Boston: Seguin Now, Boston is the obvious exception because Seguin didn't play a major role, nor did they tank to get him. But they did indirectly by picking Kessel, and while Seguin may have played a minor role, you can argue that they couldn't have added that cheap depth any other way than with a high pick. LA is the next non-tank team when you look at their roster, but then you realize in addition to Doughtey (2nd overall) and Kop (11th), they also used Schenn (5th) and Jack Johnson (3rd) in trades to complete their lineup. No shitty seasons, no Richards and Carter. Chicago and Pitt are classic suck for a few years to get stars builds. So no, tank and draft doesn't guarantee a cup. But with 8/9 modern champions it was absolutely key to building a championship. The 9th team did have a 5th overall pick and some ridiculously good success with later picks. What a GM does after they get 2 or 3 elite picks is where they earn their money, but any smart GM would take the path of Chicago, LA and Pittsburgh if they are playing the odds of success. |
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Post by stevegm on Mar 28, 2018 11:52:57 GMT
I don't believe you were kidding...about part of it at least. I think when we look at something like that, we usually come down on this idea - that it's such a team game and so much is about system and chemistry and who you have around you. We never look at the other side and wonder if maybe we fetishize the high end scoring talents more than we should. Well...let me rephrase that. WE as fans love the slick mitts and the guys like Marchand who can WHOOP! between two defenders and end up heads up with the goalie between the circles. Or the young Ovechkins who just do everything at 100 miles an hour and love to score like nite loves dingdongs (take that however you want...). And hell, we should, because that's what gets you out of your seats. Briefly. But I didn't sit for a week in 2011 when they won the Cup, and maybe if you go all in on those kinds of superstars, the necessary costs to teambuilding in a cap era mean you get the momentary standing O but not the week long parade style. The two exceptions in recent memory not only drafted high for a few years after long futility, but they got lucky to have those picks in the right years - Malkin and Crosby. Kane and Toews. Edmonton needed maybe Hall and McDavid in a shorter window and no dalliance with Yak and RNH. The problem with your lengthy prose is that you're looking at it in the wrong direction. Yes, every team that picks first doesn't win the cup, but almost every team that wins the cup starts with some top picks. The last 9 cups have been won by 4 teams. All had elite players picked with elite picks: Pittsburgh: Crosby, Malkin, Fleury Chicago: Kane, Toews LA: Doughtey, Kopitar Boston: Seguin Now, Boston is the obvious exception because Seguin didn't play a major role, nor did they tank to get him. But they did indirectly by picking Kessel, and while Seguin may have played a minor role, you can argue that they couldn't have added that cheap depth any other way than with a high pick. LA is the next non-tank team when you look at their roster, but then you realize in addition to Doughtey (2nd overall) and Kop (11th), they also used Schenn (5th) and Jack Johnson (3rd) in trades to complete their lineup. No shitty seasons, no Richards and Carter. Chicago and Pitt are classic suck for a few years to get stars builds. So no, tank and draft doesn't guarantee a cup. But with 8/9 modern champions it was absolutely key to building a championship. The 9th team did have a 5th overall pick and some ridiculously good success with later picks. What a GM does after they get 2 or 3 elite picks is where they earn their money, but any smart GM would take the path of Chicago, LA and Pittsburgh if they are playing the odds of success. No.
Everybody has a player or 2 resulting in a great pick. Throughout the league. Therefore it really isn't the domain of champs.
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Post by The OC on Mar 28, 2018 12:42:06 GMT
The problem with your lengthy prose is that you're looking at it in the wrong direction. Yes, every team that picks first doesn't win the cup, but almost every team that wins the cup starts with some top picks. The last 9 cups have been won by 4 teams. All had elite players picked with elite picks: Pittsburgh: Crosby, Malkin, Fleury Chicago: Kane, Toews LA: Doughtey, Kopitar Boston: Seguin Now, Boston is the obvious exception because Seguin didn't play a major role, nor did they tank to get him. But they did indirectly by picking Kessel, and while Seguin may have played a minor role, you can argue that they couldn't have added that cheap depth any other way than with a high pick. LA is the next non-tank team when you look at their roster, but then you realize in addition to Doughtey (2nd overall) and Kop (11th), they also used Schenn (5th) and Jack Johnson (3rd) in trades to complete their lineup. No shitty seasons, no Richards and Carter. Chicago and Pitt are classic suck for a few years to get stars builds. So no, tank and draft doesn't guarantee a cup. But with 8/9 modern champions it was absolutely key to building a championship. The 9th team did have a 5th overall pick and some ridiculously good success with later picks. What a GM does after they get 2 or 3 elite picks is where they earn their money, but any smart GM would take the path of Chicago, LA and Pittsburgh if they are playing the odds of success. No.
Everybody has a player or 2 resulting in a great pick. Throughout the league. Therefore it really isn't the domain of champs.
[b So you’re saying sucking for a few years to get a few high picks isn’t the place to start for 9/10 champions? |
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