Solar Panels, Anyone???

[jmwalters]

Hi Everyone:

Just looking for some advice. I am having a consultation for installing solar panels for my home. Has anyone already done so? Positives? Negatives?

Any info would be groovy....

[sandogbrewin]

The presentation should include when the total cost will be paid off from not having to buy your energy ?

Most states in the US have a good write (not right) off. In Cali, Sempra will buy some of the energy back.

Definitely look into tax breaks. Probably not going to install in Portland or Seattle. So weather means something.

If you have specific questions, I can email my buddy from Rhode Island. Works for ExtraOrdinary Solar.

[jmwalters]

Aug 30, 2019 22:34:14 GMT sandogbrewin said:

The presentation should include when the total cost will be paid off from not having to buy your energy ?

Most states in the US have a good write (not right) off. In Cali, Sempra will buy some of the energy back.

Definitely look into tax breaks. Probably not going to install in Portland or Seattle. So weather means something.

If you have specific questions, I can email my buddy from Rhode Island. Works for ExtraOrdinary Solar.

Thanks for this, Dog. Apparently where I live includes a 20% price deduction thanks to gov subsidy. I will find out more at the consultation next week.

[badhabitude]

I didn't like that they would put mounting holes in my roof, I think they should have some system where they don't sacrifice the integrity of the roof, but instead just lie them flat and connect them and then use attach points on the fascia. I don't see why they would need to attached any more securely than that unless you live in hurricane or tornado areas. My steel chimney support WERE directly on my near flat roof, simple enough to move them off the roof and onto the fascia.

[jmwalters]

Aug 31, 2019 0:04:53 GMT badhabitude said:

I didn't like that they would put mounting holes in my roof, I think they should have some system where they don't sacrifice the integrity of the roof, but instead just lie them flat and connect them and then use attach points on the fascia. I don't see why they would need to attached any more securely than that unless you live in hurricane or tornado areas. My steel chimney support WERE directly on my near flat roof, simple enough to move them off the roof and onto the fascia.

So you had a consultation then?

I have been prepping beforehand and they apparently put steel tracks to mount them on the roof. That said, a neighbour of mine did have theirs installed on their facade so maybe it is not a one option fits all kind of thing. 

According to their websites general calculations  I would need between 40 to 52 panels to pump about the same power I use each month. That would be an overhead cost of anywhere between 25-40k. This does not include the 20% incentive subsidy which would save between 5-8k. Any excess power gets sold back to the grid. And, of course, no monthly power bill.

We shall see if this is accurate next week

[badhabitude]

Aug 31, 2019 13:32:29 GMT jmwalters said:

Aug 31, 2019 0:04:53 GMT badhabitude said:

I didn't like that they would put mounting holes in my roof, I think they should have some system where they don't sacrifice the integrity of the roof, but instead just lie them flat and connect them and then use attach points on the fascia. I don't see why they would need to attached any more securely than that unless you live in hurricane or tornado areas. My steel chimney support WERE directly on my near flat roof, simple enough to move them off the roof and onto the fascia.

So you had a consultation then?

I have been prepping beforehand and they apparently put steel tracks to mount them on the roof. That said, a neighbour of mine did have theirs installed on their facade so maybe it is not a one option fits all kind of thing. 

According to their websites general calculations  I would need between 40 to 52 panels to pump about the same power I use each month. That would be an overhead cost of anywhere between 25-40k. This does not include the 20% incentive subsidy which would save between 5-8k. Any excess power gets sold back to the grid. And, of course, no monthly power bill.

We shall see if this is accurate next week

It  was a long talk with the power company people who set up at my local coffee shop, got a free coffee to talk to them.

Oh - and at that time I was planning to sell about 7-8 years out (now its 4.5-5) and it didn't take much to calculate I wouldn't get my money back, all my stuff is super efficient and gas and electric comes to worst at $250 per month in the worst cold, and can be as low as $150.

I think that a super efficient hvac and hot water is step 1,  New furnaces are crazy efficient, even a crappy one should be over 92% and the better ones crazy numbers like 98%.
The hot water is tricky, the on demand systems have lots of marketing and end up being more expensive, plus they like to claim 'instant' hot water, but its nowhere near instant.  Haven't researched in 5 years or so, but at the time I didn't see anything I was really happy with.

And of course insulate the fuck out of everything.

[islamorada]

Aug 31, 2019 16:04:51 GMT badhabitude said:

Aug 31, 2019 13:32:29 GMT jmwalters said:

So you had a consultation then?

I have been prepping beforehand and they apparently put steel tracks to mount them on the roof. That said, a neighbour of mine did have theirs installed on their facade so maybe it is not a one option fits all kind of thing. 

According to their websites general calculations  I would need between 40 to 52 panels to pump about the same power I use each month. That would be an overhead cost of anywhere between 25-40k. This does not include the 20% incentive subsidy which would save between 5-8k. Any excess power gets sold back to the grid. And, of course, no monthly power bill.

We shall see if this is accurate next week

It  was a long talk with the power company people who set up at my local coffee shop, got a free coffee to talk to them.

Oh - and at that time I was planning to sell about 7-8 years out (now its 4.5-5) and it didn't take much to calculate I wouldn't get my money back, all my stuff is super efficient and gas and electric comes to worst at $250 per month in the worst cold, and can be as low as $150.

I think that a super efficient hvac and hot water is step 1,  New furnaces are crazy efficient, even a crappy one should be over 92% and the better ones crazy numbers like 98%.
The hot water is tricky, the on demand systems have lots of marketing and end up being more expensive, plus they like to claim 'instant' hot water, but its nowhere near instant.  Haven't researched in 5 years or so, but at the time I didn't see anything I was really happy with.

And of course insulate the fuck out of everything.

A good friend of mine who lives in Lebanon, N.H. placed solar panels on the southern part of his garage which is separate from his 100 year old farm house.  He insulated the exterior walls of his house by ripping out the horse hair walls and adding another wall to the existing wall.  This created a space of 7.5 inches of insulation.  He then foamed the electrical holes in the attic as well as the ones in the cellar.  The end result is he sells electricity to the power company, heats his home with minisplits.  No oil or wood.  If you can afford the costs of solar panels would be great.  

I have an outside furnace and 6 acres of wooded land, I still may do panels down the road.  I did the insulation in my attic to R77 after ripping out the old stuff and foaming.  Downstairs I ripped out the old insulation and placed blue board in between the joists as well as foaming holes.  A lot of work but we keep the heat at 74 and burn aproximately 12 cord.  Not bad for a 2600 square foot house.  

[badhabitude]

Sept 6, 2019 22:32:02 GMT islamorada said:

Aug 31, 2019 16:04:51 GMT badhabitude said:

It  was a long talk with the power company people who set up at my local coffee shop, got a free coffee to talk to them.

Oh - and at that time I was planning to sell about 7-8 years out (now its 4.5-5) and it didn't take much to calculate I wouldn't get my money back, all my stuff is super efficient and gas and electric comes to worst at $250 per month in the worst cold, and can be as low as $150.

I think that a super efficient hvac and hot water is step 1,  New furnaces are crazy efficient, even a crappy one should be over 92% and the better ones crazy numbers like 98%.
The hot water is tricky, the on demand systems have lots of marketing and end up being more expensive, plus they like to claim 'instant' hot water, but its nowhere near instant.  Haven't researched in 5 years or so, but at the time I didn't see anything I was really happy with.

And of course insulate the fuck out of everything.

A good friend of mine who lives in Lebanon, N.H. placed solar panels on the southern part of his garage which is separate from his 100 year old farm house.  He insulated the exterior walls of his house by ripping out the horse hair walls and adding another wall to the existing wall.  This created a space of 7.5 inches of insulation.  He then foamed the electrical holes in the attic as well as the ones in the cellar.  The end result is he sells electricity to the power company, heats his home with minisplits.  No oil or wood.  If you can afford the costs of solar panels would be great.  

I have an outside furnace and 6 acres of wooded land, I still may do panels down the road.  I did the insulation in my attic to R77 after ripping out the old stuff and foaming.  Downstairs I ripped out the old insulation and placed blue board in between the joists as well as foaming holes.  A lot of work but we keep the heat at 74 and burn aproximately 12 cord.  Not bad for a 2600 square foot house.  

re: your friend with the minisplits.  When we got ours, they said we could only get heat out of it until zero degrees Fahrenheit, after that it can't extract any heat out of the air.  So do the solar panels somehow feed the minisplits.

You - 12 cords.  2600 feet is a lot.  I have/had about 1600 when I was heating exclusively with firewood and I was burning 7 cords a year, but it was an extremely poor 'system'.  the stove was in a family room attached to the house and garage so virtually all 6 sides were facing cold air.  I ripped that room apart last year and found the insulation that was in the flooring to be about 100% ineffective as they just used fiberglass held in place with rods and the mice got into it and it all fell down.  Now I have a modern furnace 96% efficient and a minisplit does that family room.  So now we only burn in the colder weather or when we want more heat, maybe a half cord a year.  We're at about 2000-2100 square feet now and the heat for the worst month ever was about $250 which includes both gas and electric.

Anyways, back to the wood stove.  I learned a shitload about heating with wood when I was heating with nothing but wood.  First up is the position of the wood stove, the more centrally located it can be, the better.  If you have a fireplace, putting a wood stove insert into it is well worth it.  And of course a more efficient wood stove is worth it.

And here's the biggest thing about heating with wood.  Where ever the stove is, the trick is to NOT try to push the hot air OUT, but figuring out ways to push the cool air from the rest of the house IN.  if you can get a way to get the cool air from the rest of the house pumped into the room where the stove is, its way more effective than trying to push the hot air out.  Even simply putting a fan on the floor in the doorway to where the stove is was way more effective than a fan mounted on the ceiling that tries to pump the hot air out.  A ceiling fan in the room where the stove was helped, those little fans that you put on the stove itself that work off the heat of the stove help a little.  Of course if you could get a hole in the ceiling where the stove is to get the heat to the rooms above, that really helps, too.  I had an insulated duct with a fan in it that went outside from that family room into the upper story of the house, but no matter how well I tried to insulate the duct that went outside, it still lost a shitload of heat before it got to the upstairs, and we're only talking about 6 or 8 feet of duct.

I worked like an animal cutting, transporting, splitting transporting for seasoning, transporting into my garage, then finally dragging it into the house.  It seemed like I spent my whole life moving firewood around.  I don't miss it.  Finding a cord a year isn't so bad, puts it at the hobby level.

[vice]

I do sprayfoam insulation and work with a few solar companies because a lot of folks consider doing both or one when they do a new or rehab an older home. Like San said location is key to getting a decent pay back. Most of the guys I work with only do ground installation. No need to worry about leaks in the roof or getting the snow off the roof. Plus they can be moved/readjusted as the season changes which is important for maximizing yield. I’ve got about 8-10 friends that have had panels and only one had them installed on their roof but they live in a suburb. If your just looking to save money Inslulation is still the best way if your home is older or just poorly Insulated like most are. I burn 2-2.5 cords of seasoned oak(mostly) in our 1900 sf house. The stove is in the basement of the finished walk out basement. Our home was built in the early 70s with 2x4 walls. I pulled the T1-11 siding to insulate the walls. Most of the walls have 2-2.5 inches of closed cell foam which at its thickest is r21. My next house will be off grid and I will definitely have panels I wanted panels but the payoff was 15+ years if I had them on my roof, I might have some room on the ground once I cut some more trees but dang their ugly. Your biggest pay off is air sealing your home which most people can do their own.

[islamorada]

Sept 11, 2019 21:01:52 GMT vice said:

I do sprayfoam insulation and work with a few solar companies because a lot of folks consider doing both or one when they do a new or rehab an older home. Like San said location is key to getting a decent pay back. Most of the guys I work with only do ground installation. No need to worry about leaks in the roof or getting the snow off the roof. Plus they can be moved/readjusted as the season changes which is important for maximizing yield. I’ve got about 8-10 friends that have had panels and only one had them installed on their roof but they live in a suburb. If your just looking to save money Inslulation is still the best way if your home is older or just poorly Insulated like most are. I burn 2-2.5 cords of seasoned oak(mostly) in our 1900 sf house. The stove is in the basement of the finished walk out basement. Our home was built in the early 70s with 2x4 walls. I pulled the T1-11 siding to insulate the walls. Most of the walls have 2-2.5 inches of closed cell foam which at its thickest is r21. My next house will be off grid and I will definitely have panels I wanted panels but the payoff was 15+ years if I had them on my roof, I might have some room on the ground once I cut some more trees but dang their ugly. Your biggest pay off is air sealing your home which most people can do their own.

One thing I have heard is whether or not the solar panels last more than ten years. I’m ok with that but the recovery of investment and change in technology warrants some caution. Per my comment to Badhab, I am meeting with my Lebanon NH buddy within a week. I’ll pick his brain. He is a cheap bastard so he’ll have answers. His brother was a meteorologist at UNH for awhile. Anyhoo Badhab should move to the maritimes. I would if I wasn’t loving a girl/woman/comfort pet/partner...ugg. Whose daughters all live in NC. Mine in Massassachusit.

[vice]

Sept 11, 2019 22:51:09 GMT islamorada said:

Sept 11, 2019 21:01:52 GMT vice said:

I do sprayfoam insulation and work with a few solar companies because a lot of folks consider doing both or one when they do a new or rehab an older home. Like San said location is key to getting a decent pay back. Most of the guys I work with only do ground installation. No need to worry about leaks in the roof or getting the snow off the roof. Plus they can be moved/readjusted as the season changes which is important for maximizing yield. I’ve got about 8-10 friends that have had panels and only one had them installed on their roof but they live in a suburb. If your just looking to save money Inslulation is still the best way if your home is older or just poorly Insulated like most are. I burn 2-2.5 cords of seasoned oak(mostly) in our 1900 sf house. The stove is in the basement of the finished walk out basement. Our home was built in the early 70s with 2x4 walls. I pulled the T1-11 siding to insulate the walls. Most of the walls have 2-2.5 inches of closed cell foam which at its thickest is r21. My next house will be off grid and I will definitely have panels I wanted panels but the payoff was 15+ years if I had them on my roof, I might have some room on the ground once I cut some more trees but dang their ugly. Your biggest pay off is air sealing your home which most people can do their own.

One thing I have heard is whether or not the solar panels last more than ten years. I’m ok with that but the recovery of investment and change in technology warrants some caution. Per my comment to Badhab, I am meeting with my Lebanon NH buddy within a week. I’ll pick his brain. He is a cheap bastard so he’ll have answers. His brother was a meteorologist at UNH for awhile. Anyhoo Badhab should move to the maritimes. I would if I wasn’t loving a girl/woman/comfort pet/partner...ugg. Whose daughters all live in NC. Mine in Massassachusit.

It’s crazy to think that the panels could have such a short life span after such a huge investment. Technology is progressing at such a fast rate, I tend to always wait for the next best thing, my wife says I’m just a procrastinator. We are hoping to sell our house soon and build fresh. I engineered my friends house, or at least the building envelope, and he uses a hot water heater to heat radiant floor slab. He did have a 2.5” fiberglass concrete floor pored even on his 2nd floor. It’s a pretty slick system and I plan to do the same

[jmwalters]

Sept 11, 2019 22:51:09 GMT islamorada said:

Sept 11, 2019 21:01:52 GMT vice said:

I do sprayfoam insulation and work with a few solar companies because a lot of folks consider doing both or one when they do a new or rehab an older home. Like San said location is key to getting a decent pay back. Most of the guys I work with only do ground installation. No need to worry about leaks in the roof or getting the snow off the roof. Plus they can be moved/readjusted as the season changes which is important for maximizing yield. I’ve got about 8-10 friends that have had panels and only one had them installed on their roof but they live in a suburb. If your just looking to save money Inslulation is still the best way if your home is older or just poorly Insulated like most are. I burn 2-2.5 cords of seasoned oak(mostly) in our 1900 sf house. The stove is in the basement of the finished walk out basement. Our home was built in the early 70s with 2x4 walls. I pulled the T1-11 siding to insulate the walls. Most of the walls have 2-2.5 inches of closed cell foam which at its thickest is r21. My next house will be off grid and I will definitely have panels I wanted panels but the payoff was 15+ years if I had them on my roof, I might have some room on the ground once I cut some more trees but dang their ugly. Your biggest pay off is air sealing your home which most people can do their own.

One thing I have heard is whether or not the solar panels last more than ten years. I’m ok with that but the recovery of investment and change in technology warrants some caution. Per my comment to Badhab, I am meeting with my Lebanon NH buddy within a week. I’ll pick his brain. He is a cheap bastard so he’ll have answers. His brother was a meteorologist at UNH for awhile. Anyhoo Badhab should move to the maritimes. I would if I wasn’t loving a girl/woman/comfort pet/partner...ugg. Whose daughters all live in NC. Mine in Massassachusit.

The company that is consulting me has as a 25 year warranty on the panels, for what it is worth. Final consultation tomorrow so we shall see

[jmwalters]

Ok, here it goes:

it is estimated I require a 11.88kW system for my home which will comprise 41 solar panels. Price is $34k Cdn and will increase the home value by an estimated 2-5%. At that rate it would take me approx 10 years until net value kicks in (I have made my initial investment back: 34k minus 10years of power bills saved = net zero). After that, gravy.

One catch, though. My system would only be at 71% efficiency due to neighbour's trees shading my roof (fuckers). However, should those go away then it will run near 100%.

[bookboy007]

Sept 13, 2019 0:48:20 GMT jmwalters said:

Sept 11, 2019 22:51:09 GMT islamorada said:

One thing I have heard is whether or not the solar panels last more than ten years. I’m ok with that but the recovery of investment and change in technology warrants some caution. Per my comment to Badhab, I am meeting with my Lebanon NH buddy within a week. I’ll pick his brain. He is a cheap bastard so he’ll have answers. His brother was a meteorologist at UNH for awhile. Anyhoo Badhab should move to the maritimes. I would if I wasn’t loving a girl/woman/comfort pet/partner...ugg. Whose daughters all live in NC. Mine in Massassachusit.

The company that is consulting me has as a 25 year warranty on the panels, for what it is worth. Final consultation tomorrow so we shall see

I finally put glass in my windows and took down the tinfoil.  I get a lot more solar heat now....

[jmwalters]

Sept 13, 2019 21:31:52 GMT bookboy007 said:

Sept 13, 2019 0:48:20 GMT jmwalters said:

The company that is consulting me has as a 25 year warranty on the panels, for what it is worth. Final consultation tomorrow so we shall see

I finally put glass in my windows and took down the tinfoil.  I get a lot more solar heat now....

Funny, my neighbour does that...Trevor, is that you? Cut down your fucking trees!!!

[The OC]

I work in the energy sector, particularly renewables. Part of my responsibilities is efficiency upgrades for homeowners. Solar is good, but probably the last thing you should do. People love it because they love screwing over the power company almost as much as the government, but everything else is better. Best to start with insulation/windows etc by far. Then switch to heat pumps, unless you're in bitter cold parts of Canada where you are regularly below -30C. Lastly look at a solar system, but don't expect to eliminate your power bill. The main problem is in the north our highest days of power draw are also the darkest days of the year. A bitter cold night with some cloud cover and the sun down at 5pm and you've got no energy coming in when you need it most. That will happen often. So assume 50% utilization of your panels and you will be less disappointed.

I own a 10,000 square foot building. Last year I installed a $32,000 heat pump system. It works year-round, and saved about $10k in energy costs. Nova Scotia offers rebates up to 25% for me, so the payback period was 2.7 years. Solar panels will never come anywhere close in Canada.

[The OC]

Sept 7, 2019 15:10:47 GMT badhabitude said:

Sept 6, 2019 22:32:02 GMT islamorada said:

A good friend of mine who lives in Lebanon, N.H. placed solar panels on the southern part of his garage which is separate from his 100 year old farm house.  He insulated the exterior walls of his house by ripping out the horse hair walls and adding another wall to the existing wall.  This created a space of 7.5 inches of insulation.  He then foamed the electrical holes in the attic as well as the ones in the cellar.  The end result is he sells electricity to the power company, heats his home with minisplits.  No oil or wood.  If you can afford the costs of solar panels would be great.  

I have an outside furnace and 6 acres of wooded land, I still may do panels down the road.  I did the insulation in my attic to R77 after ripping out the old stuff and foaming.  Downstairs I ripped out the old insulation and placed blue board in between the joists as well as foaming holes.  A lot of work but we keep the heat at 74 and burn aproximately 12 cord.  Not bad for a 2600 square foot house.  

re: your friend with the minisplits.  When we got ours, they said we could only get heat out of it until zero degrees Fahrenheit, after that it can't extract any heat out of the air.  So do the solar panels somehow feed the minisplits.

You - 12 cords.  2600 feet is a lot.  I have/had about 1600 when I was heating exclusively with firewood and I was burning 7 cords a year, but it was an extremely poor 'system'.  the stove was in a family room attached to the house and garage so virtually all 6 sides were facing cold air.  I ripped that room apart last year and found the insulation that was in the flooring to be about 100% ineffective as they just used fiberglass held in place with rods and the mice got into it and it all fell down.  Now I have a modern furnace 96% efficient and a minisplit does that family room.  So now we only burn in the colder weather or when we want more heat, maybe a half cord a year.  We're at about 2000-2100 square feet now and the heat for the worst month ever was about $250 which includes both gas and electric.

Anyways, back to the wood stove.  I learned a shitload about heating with wood when I was heating with nothing but wood.  First up is the position of the wood stove, the more centrally located it can be, the better.  If you have a fireplace, putting a wood stove insert into it is well worth it.  And of course a more efficient wood stove is worth it.

And here's the biggest thing about heating with wood.  Where ever the stove is, the trick is to NOT try to push the hot air OUT, but figuring out ways to push the cool air from the rest of the house IN.  if you can get a way to get the cool air from the rest of the house pumped into the room where the stove is, its way more effective than trying to push the hot air out.  Even simply putting a fan on the floor in the doorway to where the stove is was way more effective than a fan mounted on the ceiling that tries to pump the hot air out.  A ceiling fan in the room where the stove was helped, those little fans that you put on the stove itself that work off the heat of the stove help a little.  Of course if you could get a hole in the ceiling where the stove is to get the heat to the rooms above, that really helps, too.  I had an insulated duct with a fan in it that went outside from that family room into the upper story of the house, but no matter how well I tried to insulate the duct that went outside, it still lost a shitload of heat before it got to the upstairs, and we're only talking about 6 or 8 feet of duct.

I worked like an animal cutting, transporting, splitting transporting for seasoning, transporting into my garage, then finally dragging it into the house.  It seemed like I spent my whole life moving firewood around.  I don't miss it.  Finding a cord a year isn't so bad, puts it at the hobby level.

I bought a new Mitsubishi heat pump system last year.  It's good to -30C.

[badhabitude]

Sept 14, 2019 0:41:06 GMT The OC said:

Sept 7, 2019 15:10:47 GMT badhabitude said:

re: your friend with the minisplits.  When we got ours, they said we could only get heat out of it until zero degrees Fahrenheit, after that it can't extract any heat out of the air.  So do the solar panels somehow feed the minisplits.

You - 12 cords.  2600 feet is a lot.  I have/had about 1600 when I was heating exclusively with firewood and I was burning 7 cords a year, but it was an extremely poor 'system'.  the stove was in a family room attached to the house and garage so virtually all 6 sides were facing cold air.  I ripped that room apart last year and found the insulation that was in the flooring to be about 100% ineffective as they just used fiberglass held in place with rods and the mice got into it and it all fell down.  Now I have a modern furnace 96% efficient and a minisplit does that family room.  So now we only burn in the colder weather or when we want more heat, maybe a half cord a year.  We're at about 2000-2100 square feet now and the heat for the worst month ever was about $250 which includes both gas and electric.

Anyways, back to the wood stove.  I learned a shitload about heating with wood when I was heating with nothing but wood.  First up is the position of the wood stove, the more centrally located it can be, the better.  If you have a fireplace, putting a wood stove insert into it is well worth it.  And of course a more efficient wood stove is worth it.

And here's the biggest thing about heating with wood.  Where ever the stove is, the trick is to NOT try to push the hot air OUT, but figuring out ways to push the cool air from the rest of the house IN.  if you can get a way to get the cool air from the rest of the house pumped into the room where the stove is, its way more effective than trying to push the hot air out.  Even simply putting a fan on the floor in the doorway to where the stove is was way more effective than a fan mounted on the ceiling that tries to pump the hot air out.  A ceiling fan in the room where the stove was helped, those little fans that you put on the stove itself that work off the heat of the stove help a little.  Of course if you could get a hole in the ceiling where the stove is to get the heat to the rooms above, that really helps, too.  I had an insulated duct with a fan in it that went outside from that family room into the upper story of the house, but no matter how well I tried to insulate the duct that went outside, it still lost a shitload of heat before it got to the upstairs, and we're only talking about 6 or 8 feet of duct.

I worked like an animal cutting, transporting, splitting transporting for seasoning, transporting into my garage, then finally dragging it into the house.  It seemed like I spent my whole life moving firewood around.  I don't miss it.  Finding a cord a year isn't so bad, puts it at the hobby level.

I bought a new Mitsubishi heat pump system last year.  It's good to -30C.

That's -22F for those of us who speak American.
But still a great improvement over the 0F on the system I bought back in 2011.

[sandogbrewin]

Sept 13, 2019 0:48:20 GMT jmwalters said:

Sept 11, 2019 22:51:09 GMT islamorada said:

One thing I have heard is whether or not the solar panels last more than ten years. I’m ok with that but the recovery of investment and change in technology warrants some caution. Per my comment to Badhab, I am meeting with my Lebanon NH buddy within a week. I’ll pick his brain. He is a cheap bastard so he’ll have answers. His brother was a meteorologist at UNH for awhile. Anyhoo Badhab should move to the maritimes. I would if I wasn’t loving a girl/woman/comfort pet/partner...ugg. Whose daughters all live in NC. Mine in Massassachusit.

The company that is consulting me has as a 25 year warranty on the panels, for what it is worth. Final consultation tomorrow so we shall see

How was the math on the projection of the panels eventually paying themselves off during the first consultation ? 

[jmwalters]

Sept 14, 2019 18:16:28 GMT sandogbrewin said:

Sept 13, 2019 0:48:20 GMT jmwalters said:

The company that is consulting me has as a 25 year warranty on the panels, for what it is worth. Final consultation tomorrow so we shall see

How was the math on the projection of the panels eventually paying themselves off during the first consultation ? 

Sound. It’s based off of current use of power and cost. In fact,it does not take into account inflation of regular power so they almost undervalue in their projections. After all, I think we can all agree that the cost of power is not going to go down or even remain the same in the course of the 25 year lifespan of the panels.

[islamorada]

Sept 7, 2019 15:10:47 GMT badhabitude said:

Sept 6, 2019 22:32:02 GMT islamorada said:

A good friend of mine who lives in Lebanon, N.H. placed solar panels on the southern part of his garage which is separate from his 100 year old farm house.  He insulated the exterior walls of his house by ripping out the horse hair walls and adding another wall to the existing wall.  This created a space of 7.5 inches of insulation.  He then foamed the electrical holes in the attic as well as the ones in the cellar.  The end result is he sells electricity to the power company, heats his home with minisplits.  No oil or wood.  If you can afford the costs of solar panels would be great.  

I have an outside furnace and 6 acres of wooded land, I still may do panels down the road.  I did the insulation in my attic to R77 after ripping out the old stuff and foaming.  Downstairs I ripped out the old insulation and placed blue board in between the joists as well as foaming holes.  A lot of work but we keep the heat at 74 and burn aproximately 12 cord.  Not bad for a 2600 square foot house.  

re: your friend with the minisplits.  When we got ours, they said we could only get heat out of it until zero degrees Fahrenheit, after that it can't extract any heat out of the air.  So do the solar panels somehow feed the minisplits.

You - 12 cords.  2600 feet is a lot.  I have/had about 1600 when I was heating exclusively with firewood and I was burning 7 cords a year, but it was an extremely poor 'system'.  the stove was in a family room attached to the house and garage so virtually all 6 sides were facing cold air.  I ripped that room apart last year and found the insulation that was in the flooring to be about 100% ineffective as they just used fiberglass held in place with rods and the mice got into it and it all fell down.  Now I have a modern furnace 96% efficient and a minisplit does that family room.  So now we only burn in the colder weather or when we want more heat, maybe a half cord a year.  We're at about 2000-2100 square feet now and the heat for the worst month ever was about $250 which includes both gas and electric.

Anyways, back to the wood stove.  I learned a shitload about heating with wood when I was heating with nothing but wood.  First up is the position of the wood stove, the more centrally located it can be, the better.  If you have a fireplace, putting a wood stove insert into it is well worth it.  And of course a more efficient wood stove is worth it.

And here's the biggest thing about heating with wood.  Where ever the stove is, the trick is to NOT try to push the hot air OUT, but figuring out ways to push the cool air from the rest of the house IN.  if you can get a way to get the cool air from the rest of the house pumped into the room where the stove is, its way more effective than trying to push the hot air out.  Even simply putting a fan on the floor in the doorway to where the stove is was way more effective than a fan mounted on the ceiling that tries to pump the hot air out.  A ceiling fan in the room where the stove was helped, those little fans that you put on the stove itself that work off the heat of the stove help a little.  Of course if you could get a hole in the ceiling where the stove is to get the heat to the rooms above, that really helps, too.  I had an insulated duct with a fan in it that went outside from that family room into the upper story of the house, but no matter how well I tried to insulate the duct that went outside, it still lost a shitload of heat before it got to the upstairs, and we're only talking about 6 or 8 feet of duct.

I worked like an animal cutting, transporting, splitting transporting for seasoning, transporting into my garage, then finally dragging it into the house.  It seemed like I spent my whole life moving firewood around.  I don't miss it.  Finding a cord a year isn't so bad, puts it at the hobby level.

Well, I got together with my friend from Lebanon, NH.  I asked if he used solar panels during the cold months of December through February.  He said it was not enough to generate heat.  He does produce enough to get his power company credits during the other months to run his mini split during those cold months at no cost.  As for my wood burning, it is all year long.  Outside furnaces (boiler) is simply not allowed in suburban areas.  I live in rural NH near Keene.  I have six acres of land to harvest wood.  No question it is a chore, but the work amounts to going to the gym.  You made an interesting point on the IN with wood stoves.  It is so true.  My outside furnace runs through the baseboard hot water system.  It is an open system that has been rigged up to be a closed system for the oil boiler during times I do leave the house in the winter for a few weeks.  So I have a installed insulation at in the attic (high pitched/large soffit ranch house), my side walls are adequate but the cost of ripping out wall board and reinstalling higher R insulation was not only prohibitive but work intensive.  Anyway solar panels with mini splits is the way to go if I lived in NC.  OC saying he uses a minisplit in the maritimes needs more explanation, what power source?  Cheers, stay warm.  It is too effing cold for November.  

[badhabitude]

Nov 17, 2019 13:01:06 GMT islamorada said:

Sept 7, 2019 15:10:47 GMT badhabitude said:

re: your friend with the minisplits.  When we got ours, they said we could only get heat out of it until zero degrees Fahrenheit, after that it can't extract any heat out of the air.  So do the solar panels somehow feed the minisplits.

You - 12 cords.  2600 feet is a lot.  I have/had about 1600 when I was heating exclusively with firewood and I was burning 7 cords a year, but it was an extremely poor 'system'.  the stove was in a family room attached to the house and garage so virtually all 6 sides were facing cold air.  I ripped that room apart last year and found the insulation that was in the flooring to be about 100% ineffective as they just used fiberglass held in place with rods and the mice got into it and it all fell down.  Now I have a modern furnace 96% efficient and a minisplit does that family room.  So now we only burn in the colder weather or when we want more heat, maybe a half cord a year.  We're at about 2000-2100 square feet now and the heat for the worst month ever was about $250 which includes both gas and electric.

Anyways, back to the wood stove.  I learned a shitload about heating with wood when I was heating with nothing but wood.  First up is the position of the wood stove, the more centrally located it can be, the better.  If you have a fireplace, putting a wood stove insert into it is well worth it.  And of course a more efficient wood stove is worth it.

And here's the biggest thing about heating with wood.  Where ever the stove is, the trick is to NOT try to push the hot air OUT, but figuring out ways to push the cool air from the rest of the house IN.  if you can get a way to get the cool air from the rest of the house pumped into the room where the stove is, its way more effective than trying to push the hot air out.  Even simply putting a fan on the floor in the doorway to where the stove is was way more effective than a fan mounted on the ceiling that tries to pump the hot air out.  A ceiling fan in the room where the stove was helped, those little fans that you put on the stove itself that work off the heat of the stove help a little.  Of course if you could get a hole in the ceiling where the stove is to get the heat to the rooms above, that really helps, too.  I had an insulated duct with a fan in it that went outside from that family room into the upper story of the house, but no matter how well I tried to insulate the duct that went outside, it still lost a shitload of heat before it got to the upstairs, and we're only talking about 6 or 8 feet of duct.

I worked like an animal cutting, transporting, splitting transporting for seasoning, transporting into my garage, then finally dragging it into the house.  It seemed like I spent my whole life moving firewood around.  I don't miss it.  Finding a cord a year isn't so bad, puts it at the hobby level.

Well, I got together with my friend from Lebanon, NH.  I asked if he used solar panels during the cold months of December through February.  He said it was not enough to generate heat.  He does produce enough to get his power company credits during the other months to run his mini split during those cold months at no cost.  As for my wood burning, it is all year long.  Outside furnaces (boiler) is simply not allowed in suburban areas.  I live in rural NH near Keene.  I have six acres of land to harvest wood.  No question it is a chore, but the work amounts to going to the gym.  You made an interesting point on the IN with wood stoves.  It is so true.  My outside furnace runs through the baseboard hot water system.  It is an open system that has been rigged up to be a closed system for the oil boiler during times I do leave the house in the winter for a few weeks.  So I have a installed insulation at in the attic (high pitched/large soffit ranch house), my side walls are adequate but the cost of ripping out wall board and reinstalling higher R insulation was not only prohibitive but work intensive.  Anyway solar panels with mini splits is the way to go if I lived in NC.  OC saying he uses a minisplit in the maritimes needs more explanation, what power source?  Cheers, stay warm.  It is too effing cold for November.  

The only thought I can add re: the side wall insulation, isn't a good one, but I thought I would throw the idea out.  Rather than insulate from the inside, you might be able to insulate from the outside.  This might be an option if you were thinking of replacing your siding anyway, you could put those closed cell foam sheets and cover with vinyl. 

[islamorada]

Nov 17, 2019 15:45:17 GMT badhabitude said:

Nov 17, 2019 13:01:06 GMT islamorada said:

Well, I got together with my friend from Lebanon, NH.  I asked if he used solar panels during the cold months of December through February.  He said it was not enough to generate heat.  He does produce enough to get his power company credits during the other months to run his mini split during those cold months at no cost.  As for my wood burning, it is all year long.  Outside furnaces (boiler) is simply not allowed in suburban areas.  I live in rural NH near Keene.  I have six acres of land to harvest wood.  No question it is a chore, but the work amounts to going to the gym.  You made an interesting point on the IN with wood stoves.  It is so true.  My outside furnace runs through the baseboard hot water system.  It is an open system that has been rigged up to be a closed system for the oil boiler during times I do leave the house in the winter for a few weeks.  So I have a installed insulation at in the attic (high pitched/large soffit ranch house), my side walls are adequate but the cost of ripping out wall board and reinstalling higher R insulation was not only prohibitive but work intensive.  Anyway solar panels with mini splits is the way to go if I lived in NC.  OC saying he uses a minisplit in the maritimes needs more explanation, what power source?  Cheers, stay warm.  It is too effing cold for November.  

The only thought I can add re: the side wall insulation, isn't a good one, but I thought I would throw the idea out.  Rather than insulate from the inside, you might be able to insulate from the outside.  This might be an option if you were thinking of replacing your siding anyway, you could put those closed cell foam sheets and cover with vinyl. 

Actually vinyl siding would be good for my house, large soffit allows air to enter the attic to clear heat during the summer.  My sidewalls only have an R value of 4 maybe as it is an older house.  I just have an adversion to vinyl siding, if it burns then the fumes contain formaldehyde and hydrogen chloride which is highly toxic and a carcinogin. I certainly understand it use in a well insulated house.   

[badhabitude]

Nov 17, 2019 16:20:59 GMT islamorada said:

Nov 17, 2019 15:45:17 GMT badhabitude said:

The only thought I can add re: the side wall insulation, isn't a good one, but I thought I would throw the idea out.  Rather than insulate from the inside, you might be able to insulate from the outside.  This might be an option if you were thinking of replacing your siding anyway, you could put those closed cell foam sheets and cover with vinyl. 

Actually vinyl siding would be good for my house, large soffit allows air to enter the attic to clear heat during the summer.  My sidewalls only have an R value of 4 maybe as it is an older house.  I just have an adversion to vinyl siding, if it burns then the fumes contain formaldehyde and hydrogen chloride which is highly toxic and a carcinogin. I certainly understand it use in a well insulated house.   

Well, if its burning than the fumes from it are one of your lesser concerns, my first attention would go to the burning house.  My concern about the vinyl is cosmetics as I hate the seams, if I ever had to do it, I would do it so that there are no seams by putting a "strip" of wood shakes above and below windows, so that only full pieces of vinyl are used.  Or a vinyl alternative, like vinylshake.com/ - just an example, the first thing I found googling and have no idea about the quality of their product, but just as an idea that is more cosmetically appealing than the traditional vinyl.  Or there might be other siding materials that can be put up over closed cell.

Can foam be sprayed in from the outside?

[islamorada]

Nov 17, 2019 17:01:16 GMT badhabitude said:

Nov 17, 2019 16:20:59 GMT islamorada said:

Actually vinyl siding would be good for my house, large soffit allows air to enter the attic to clear heat during the summer.  My sidewalls only have an R value of 4 maybe as it is an older house.  I just have an adversion to vinyl siding, if it burns then the fumes contain formaldehyde and hydrogen chloride which is highly toxic and a carcinogin. I certainly understand it use in a well insulated house.   

Well, if its burning than the fumes from it are one of your lesser concerns, my first attention would go to the burning house.  My concern about the vinyl is cosmetics as I hate the seams, if I ever had to do it, I would do it so that there are no seams by putting a "strip" of wood shakes above and below windows, so that only full pieces of vinyl are used.  Or a vinyl alternative, like vinylshake.com/ - just an example, the first thing I found googling and have no idea about the quality of their product, but just as an idea that is more cosmetically appealing than the traditional vinyl.  Or there might be other siding materials that can be put up over closed cell.

Can foam be sprayed in from the outside?

Good question on the foam. I think coverage would be an issue. The foam must be one inch in thickness to be effective. The old insulation material would be a problem. The best siding is Hardi planking, it is very costly but once it is coated it can last 10 years depending on the color. It does not deteriorate unless damaged but can be repaired with epoxy. I put fj primed cedar as a renovation of the original aluminum siding. Again soffits that are nearly 30 inches protect the siding and window casings as well. I do not know why NE houses are not required to have large soffits. There is tremendous damage from smaller soffits.