|
Post by islamorada on Dec 18, 2023 15:40:14 GMT
To add, if the NHL does not take care of the "boarding" along the boards in a proper manner, then the game will change dramatically. Players will be able to skate along the boards without repercussions. A defender will have to be in place along the boards to stop any advance by the player with the puck. Stupid. So Nite is correct. The rule needs to be clearly modified for it to be taught.
|
|
|
Post by zamboni24 on Dec 18, 2023 18:40:55 GMT
The call on Lindholm was an embarrassment for the ref and the league. 30 penalty minutes on the Bruins…a joke And then just flops down to the ice. Great view. Can't fault the call from the way it appeared but the embarrassment lies in the ability of the closest ref to check the replay or override and call "no foul on the play". Actually happens on occasion.
|
|
|
Post by zamboni24 on Dec 18, 2023 18:53:47 GMT
|
|
|
Post by bookboy007 on Dec 18, 2023 21:45:24 GMT
There is nothing worse than sucking for a PP. can't remember who the former player they named was but he said they absolutely will take the risk of getting creamed from behind to draw a penalty because that's the job. Brutal. There's a guy I grew up with & player hockey with in NB book. Name was Tony Wormal. Had an opportunity to play in bigs. Played 3 games with the Saint John Flames & finished as a star in all 3 games. Was offered a contract & just didn't want to play hockey for a living! Wasn't very big about 5'9" 180lbs, but he had that Peter Forsberg ability of reversing hits on guys! Of course he could get the elbow up too, but he had such a great ability of taking a hit too! Seen him layout some big boys over the years as a teammate! Never fought a lot, but wouldn't back down either. He was always a top point producer, so he did have & needed a"Semeko" to ride shotgun. I don't know if these kids are being brought in & they just don't know how to take a hit, or scared to, but it certainly is becoming a pandemic across the league & I think the hitee' needs to start taking some responsibility of the position they put themselves in. Yeah, I think you hit the nail, nite. They don't expect to get hit. Not with violent intent. Turning your back is a great way to protect the puck - that's why Marchand does it all the time - but you have to be prepared for the guy who doesn't care if he might get a penalty or who can't stop. I thought that was part of the issue that got both Kariya and Lindros. I think Kariya was able to use the middle of the ice so well because he could get away with it in the NCAA. Not because there was no hitting but he was such a nimble skater that when you combine that with a different attitude to hitting, he could manage the risk. Not so in the NHL. Mostly, but not always. Same with Lindros in that there weren't many juniors willing to get in front of that train. So when he ran into a guy who had no fear of collisions, he wasn't ready to protect himself. A lot of the changes the league has made are making the situation worse by making the game faster. You used to be able to run some interference on a forechecker to give your D partner that extra half second to make a play and still protect himself from a hit. And the big, open ice hits are almost gone because everyone is shy about the head shot rules...and also more aware of not causing someone life-altering brain damage. So now you have these kids like Zegras and Bedard and, quite frankly, Pastrnak and Marchand who dance across the middle of the ice on the rush more than you ever dared in the 70s and 80s because they're not expecting to get knocked out to queer street to buy curtains with their grandma (I think that was a Larry Merchant line originally...). And they get all pissy and upset if they get hammered because how dare you play hockey when they're playing ballet. The pursuit of more offense has come with a price. I definitely knew guys like your NB player, nite. Part of growing up in Calgary was playing with all of those tough as nails ranch kids who played hockey all winter, baled hay in the fall and did rodeos all summer. Half of them had one knee left by the end of high school. Playing Junior B in that era, you had to play tough hockey. Not all of them were Sutters, but a lot of them wanted to be. But there were more than a few who, as you say, just didn't want to go pro. Too many other things going on. And back then, Wayne was the only guy getting a million dollars in the NHL (actually, that hadn't happened yet) so the idea of intergenerational financial security hadn't really become a thing yet.
|
|
|
Post by nitelite on Dec 19, 2023 1:03:34 GMT
There's a guy I grew up with & player hockey with in NB book. Name was Tony Wormal. Had an opportunity to play in bigs. Played 3 games with the Saint John Flames & finished as a star in all 3 games. Was offered a contract & just didn't want to play hockey for a living! Wasn't very big about 5'9" 180lbs, but he had that Peter Forsberg ability of reversing hits on guys! Of course he could get the elbow up too, but he had such a great ability of taking a hit too! Seen him layout some big boys over the years as a teammate! Never fought a lot, but wouldn't back down either. He was always a top point producer, so he did have & needed a"Semeko" to ride shotgun. I don't know if these kids are being brought in & they just don't know how to take a hit, or scared to, but it certainly is becoming a pandemic across the league & I think the hitee' needs to start taking some responsibility of the position they put themselves in. Yeah, I think you hit the nail, nite. They don't expect to get hit. Not with violent intent. Turning your back is a great way to protect the puck - that's why Marchand does it all the time - but you have to be prepared for the guy who doesn't care if he might get a penalty or who can't stop. I thought that was part of the issue that got both Kariya and Lindros. I think Kariya was able to use the middle of the ice so well because he could get away with it in the NCAA. Not because there was no hitting but he was such a nimble skater that when you combine that with a different attitude to hitting, he could manage the risk. Not so in the NHL. Mostly, but not always. Same with Lindros in that there weren't many juniors willing to get in front of that train. So when he ran into a guy who had no fear of collisions, he wasn't ready to protect himself. A lot of the changes the league has made are making the situation worse by making the game faster. You used to be able to run some interference on a forechecker to give your D partner that extra half second to make a play and still protect himself from a hit. And the big, open ice hits are almost gone because everyone is shy about the head shot rules...and also more aware of not causing someone life-altering brain damage. So now you have these kids like Zegras and Bedard and, quite frankly, Pastrnak and Marchand who dance across the middle of the ice on the rush more than you ever dared in the 70s and 80s because they're not expecting to get knocked out to queer street to buy curtains with their grandma (I think that was a Larry Merchant line originally...). And they get all pissy and upset if they get hammered because how dare you play hockey when they're playing ballet. The pursuit of more offense has come with a price. I definitely knew guys like your NB player, nite. Part of growing up in Calgary was playing with all of those tough as nails ranch kids who played hockey all winter, baled hay in the fall and did rodeos all summer. Half of them had one knee left by the end of high school. Playing Junior B in that era, you had to play tough hockey. Not all of them were Sutters, but a lot of them wanted to be. But there were more than a few who, as you say, just didn't want to go pro. Too many other things going on. And back then, Wayne was the only guy getting a million dollars in the NHL (actually, that hadn't happened yet) so the idea of intergenerational financial security hadn't really become a thing yet. Derek Sanderson said "Hitting is was an Art & now that the Steven's, Neely's & Clark's are gone there's no Picasso's left!" Ol' Turk was the biggest homer color man in the history of hockey, but I loved some of his quotes over the years!
|
|
|
Post by Fletcher on Dec 19, 2023 2:22:50 GMT
There's a guy I grew up with & player hockey with in NB book. Name was Tony Wormal. Had an opportunity to play in bigs. Played 3 games with the Saint John Flames & finished as a star in all 3 games. Was offered a contract & just didn't want to play hockey for a living! Wasn't very big about 5'9" 180lbs, but he had that Peter Forsberg ability of reversing hits on guys! Of course he could get the elbow up too, but he had such a great ability of taking a hit too! Seen him layout some big boys over the years as a teammate! Never fought a lot, but wouldn't back down either. He was always a top point producer, so he did have & needed a"Semeko" to ride shotgun. I don't know if these kids are being brought in & they just don't know how to take a hit, or scared to, but it certainly is becoming a pandemic across the league & I think the hitee' needs to start taking some responsibility of the position they put themselves in. Yeah, I think you hit the nail, nite. They don't expect to get hit. Not with violent intent. Turning your back is a great way to protect the puck - that's why Marchand does it all the time - but you have to be prepared for the guy who doesn't care if he might get a penalty or who can't stop. I thought that was part of the issue that got both Kariya and Lindros. I think Kariya was able to use the middle of the ice so well because he could get away with it in the NCAA. Not because there was no hitting but he was such a nimble skater that when you combine that with a different attitude to hitting, he could manage the risk. Not so in the NHL. Mostly, but not always. Same with Lindros in that there weren't many juniors willing to get in front of that train. So when he ran into a guy who had no fear of collisions, he wasn't ready to protect himself. A lot of the changes the league has made are making the situation worse by making the game faster. You used to be able to run some interference on a forechecker to give your D partner that extra half second to make a play and still protect himself from a hit. And the big, open ice hits are almost gone because everyone is shy about the head shot rules...and also more aware of not causing someone life-altering brain damage. So now you have these kids like Zegras and Bedard and, quite frankly, Pastrnak and Marchand who dance across the middle of the ice on the rush more than you ever dared in the 70s and 80s because they're not expecting to get knocked out to queer street to buy curtains with their grandma (I think that was a Larry Merchant line originally...). And they get all pissy and upset if they get hammered because how dare you play hockey when they're playing ballet. The pursuit of more offense has come with a price. I definitely knew guys like your NB player, nite. Part of growing up in Calgary was playing with all of those tough as nails ranch kids who played hockey all winter, baled hay in the fall and did rodeos all summer. Half of them had one knee left by the end of high school. Playing Junior B in that era, you had to play tough hockey. Not all of them were Sutters, but a lot of them wanted to be. But there were more than a few who, as you say, just didn't want to go pro. Too many other things going on. And back then, Wayne was the only guy getting a million dollars in the NHL (actually, that hadn't happened yet) so the idea of intergenerational financial security hadn't really become a thing yet. I still think a threshold moment in the development of where we are with this today was the suspension/punishment of Mark Scheifele for the infamous hit on Jake Evans. It was the perfect example of a player putting himself in a terribly vulnerable position, getting blown up by defending player who broke no rules, but then getting suspended because the hit was visually upsetting, too violent, and caused an injury. Nobody stopped and said "hey, Jake Evans isn't entitled to curl, head down, towards the net to score a game-ending goal when a defender can get to the same space". It didn't matter. That moved the ball a few yards closer to where we are now, where the biggest criteria is "did it look bad?!"
|
|
|
Post by bookboy007 on Dec 19, 2023 4:26:02 GMT
Yeah, I think you hit the nail, nite. They don't expect to get hit. Not with violent intent. Turning your back is a great way to protect the puck - that's why Marchand does it all the time - but you have to be prepared for the guy who doesn't care if he might get a penalty or who can't stop. I thought that was part of the issue that got both Kariya and Lindros. I think Kariya was able to use the middle of the ice so well because he could get away with it in the NCAA. Not because there was no hitting but he was such a nimble skater that when you combine that with a different attitude to hitting, he could manage the risk. Not so in the NHL. Mostly, but not always. Same with Lindros in that there weren't many juniors willing to get in front of that train. So when he ran into a guy who had no fear of collisions, he wasn't ready to protect himself. A lot of the changes the league has made are making the situation worse by making the game faster. You used to be able to run some interference on a forechecker to give your D partner that extra half second to make a play and still protect himself from a hit. And the big, open ice hits are almost gone because everyone is shy about the head shot rules...and also more aware of not causing someone life-altering brain damage. So now you have these kids like Zegras and Bedard and, quite frankly, Pastrnak and Marchand who dance across the middle of the ice on the rush more than you ever dared in the 70s and 80s because they're not expecting to get knocked out to queer street to buy curtains with their grandma (I think that was a Larry Merchant line originally...). And they get all pissy and upset if they get hammered because how dare you play hockey when they're playing ballet. The pursuit of more offense has come with a price. I definitely knew guys like your NB player, nite. Part of growing up in Calgary was playing with all of those tough as nails ranch kids who played hockey all winter, baled hay in the fall and did rodeos all summer. Half of them had one knee left by the end of high school. Playing Junior B in that era, you had to play tough hockey. Not all of them were Sutters, but a lot of them wanted to be. But there were more than a few who, as you say, just didn't want to go pro. Too many other things going on. And back then, Wayne was the only guy getting a million dollars in the NHL (actually, that hadn't happened yet) so the idea of intergenerational financial security hadn't really become a thing yet. I still think a threshold moment in the development of where we are with this today was the suspension/punishment of Mark Scheifele for the infamous hit on Jake Evans. It was the perfect example of a player putting himself in a terribly vulnerable position, getting blown up by defending player who broke no rules, but then getting suspended because the hit was visually upsetting, too violent, and caused an injury. Nobody stopped and said "hey, Jake Evans isn't entitled to curl, head down, towards the net to score a game-ending goal when a defender can get to the same space". It didn't matter. That moved the ball a few yards closer to where we are now, where the biggest criteria is "did it look bad?!" Yes, but Fletch, the guy who got hit was a Hab. And you see that changes the calculus. Like, if a Hab gets shoved into the boards and happens to go face first into a stanchion, then clearly the hitter is Satan and should be burned inside a giant wooden effigy of Jean Beliveau.
|
|
|
Post by bookboy007 on Jan 8, 2024 16:39:56 GMT
Yeah, I think you hit the nail, nite. They don't expect to get hit. Not with violent intent. Turning your back is a great way to protect the puck - that's why Marchand does it all the time - but you have to be prepared for the guy who doesn't care if he might get a penalty or who can't stop. I thought that was part of the issue that got both Kariya and Lindros. I think Kariya was able to use the middle of the ice so well because he could get away with it in the NCAA. Not because there was no hitting but he was such a nimble skater that when you combine that with a different attitude to hitting, he could manage the risk. Not so in the NHL. Mostly, but not always. Same with Lindros in that there weren't many juniors willing to get in front of that train. So when he ran into a guy who had no fear of collisions, he wasn't ready to protect himself. A lot of the changes the league has made are making the situation worse by making the game faster. You used to be able to run some interference on a forechecker to give your D partner that extra half second to make a play and still protect himself from a hit. And the big, open ice hits are almost gone because everyone is shy about the head shot rules...and also more aware of not causing someone life-altering brain damage. So now you have these kids like Zegras and Bedard and, quite frankly, Pastrnak and Marchand who dance across the middle of the ice on the rush more than you ever dared in the 70s and 80s because they're not expecting to get knocked out to queer street to buy curtains with their grandma (I think that was a Larry Merchant line originally...). And they get all pissy and upset if they get hammered because how dare you play hockey when they're playing ballet. The pursuit of more offense has come with a price. I definitely knew guys like your NB player, nite. Part of growing up in Calgary was playing with all of those tough as nails ranch kids who played hockey all winter, baled hay in the fall and did rodeos all summer. Half of them had one knee left by the end of high school. Playing Junior B in that era, you had to play tough hockey. Not all of them were Sutters, but a lot of them wanted to be. But there were more than a few who, as you say, just didn't want to go pro. Too many other things going on. And back then, Wayne was the only guy getting a million dollars in the NHL (actually, that hadn't happened yet) so the idea of intergenerational financial security hadn't really become a thing yet. I still think a threshold moment in the development of where we are with this today was the suspension/punishment of Mark Scheifele for the infamous hit on Jake Evans. It was the perfect example of a player putting himself in a terribly vulnerable position, getting blown up by defending player who broke no rules, but then getting suspended because the hit was visually upsetting, too violent, and caused an injury. Nobody stopped and said "hey, Jake Evans isn't entitled to curl, head down, towards the net to score a game-ending goal when a defender can get to the same space". It didn't matter. That moved the ball a few yards closer to where we are now, where the biggest criteria is "did it look bad?!" Apropos of this, the Perfetti/Hartman saga and another round of hits where guys got injured. Funny that the Jets are involved in that one, too. Another one of those conversations that worry me when I hear them on 32 Turds: discussion of players not being able to hit near the boards and taking hitting near the boards out of the game. What? Because that would effectively take hitting out of the game with the way they policy open ice hits now and the fear that when you're both moving at speed in the open, one small miscalculation and you're suspended for a week. I can't help but think this would move us toward European sized rinks. There's not nearly as much hitting along the boards because it's far riskier for a D to go out there to make a hit and leave open ice in the middle. That's all the Euro game - which is really what we see most nights anyway.
|
|