|
Post by Fletcher on Feb 28, 2024 0:59:59 GMT
Much better depth all around on the 2011 team…. Maybe not the favourite going into the playoffs but was no major surprise that they came out of it champs…. B’S fans were maybe shocked since we had seen all that could go wrong the previous 38 years…. ^I think this is a lot closer than you think, especially if we make the comparison at this point in time (February/March), not after we know they peaked in the playoffs and won it all. At Center - you have to give the edge to Bergeron/Krejci and the 2011 roster. But not by as much as you think. With Savard out of the picture, Charlie Coyle will actually have more points than either Bergeron or Krejci did in 2011, and the Bruins have Zacha and a lot of depth/options at center in 2024. Gregory Campbell was the 3rd line center for most of the year in 2011, with less points per game than Matt Poitras in 2024. Still, edge to 2011. At Wing, you have to give a clear edge to 2024. Pastrnak and Marchand will outscore any wingers from 2011 by a mile. Van Reimsdyk and Frederic (C/W) should both cross the 50-point mark. DeBrusk and Geekie will outscore Ryder and Marchand from 2011 as 3rd line wingers. Edge to 2024 On Defense, this is really close. Chara-Seidenberg-Boychuk just about equals McAvoy-Lindholm-Carlo. Maybe you give Chara a leadership points to fall that way, but McAvoy is a much better offensive player and I would argue that Carlo is a better defender than Boychuk. Seidenberg = Lindholm. On the bottom-3 of the blueline you have McQuaid-Ferrence-Kampfer-Stuart vs. Grizz-Forbort-Wotherspoon-Lohrei-Shattenkirk. I don't know. I don't remember anyone being excited about Kampfer and McQuaid playing D in the playoffs. They ended up with Kaberle, but the 2024 team might end up with the trade deadline improvement too. This is pretty damn close to a wash. In Goal, again you have to take the assessment of Thomas before the Cup run. He was an All-Star in 2011, just like Swayman in 2024. Nobody would have taken Rask over (reigning Vezina winner) Ullmark at that point in time for the backup. It's really close. I don't know. If Swayman makes like 2011-Thomas in the playoffs, they get some help at the trade deadline, and perhaps a young player like Lohrei takes off like Marchand did in 2011... Again, I'm not saying it's probable and I have a hard time believing this roster could go all the way. But the Bruin roster is not so different than 2011 (in February), and looking around the league, I don't see any roster that looks definitively better. It's gonna be a roulette wheel this year. All about who gets hot in April/May.
|
|
|
Post by nitelite on Feb 28, 2024 1:00:17 GMT
I think you're missing the point. The 2011 team hit the skids hard in November 2010. They went 6-6-2, shut out twice and scored 1 goal in 4 other games. The PP was at 12%. They also hit the skids in February, losing 4 of 5. The PK hit the skids this time and was 74%. No one was predicting a Cup win. And the team was coming off of 3-0, 3-0, uh-oh, after also losing in a game 7 in 2009 and in 2008, so the idea that they would win not one, not two, but THREE game 7s on the way to a Cup? No one was saying that without getting told to go easy on the pom poms. The point of the comparison is that there were no more profound reasons to expect the Bruins to win the Cup in 2011 than there are this year. Most of the reasons people might give are coloured heavily with hindsight. They only had two players with more than 60 points; they had one 30 goal scorer, and only 3 other players who hit 20. They had middle of the pack special teams, but elite goaltending with Thomas winning his second Vez. That formula seems similar in that Krejci hadn't led the playoffs in scoring yet - thanks to Mike Richards, but still - and Bergeron was a 20g guy at that point, and they were looking to get scoring from a bunch of players who people thought were playing too high up the lineup with Lucic being a 4th liner on the top line, Horton having no heartbeat, Recchi having an AARP card and Ryder being a disappointment as a UFA signing. They had no one in the top 30 scorers. Now...there are things you look at and say it was more possible for those 2011 Bruins to carve a path. Maybe. But given the failures of the previous two playoffs, how much faith did people really have? And how different is that from the current situation? It seems like they have a path and OC put his finger on it. They have gotten heavier. Bigger. They have more guys who score goals by going to the net and setting up camp. The theory is to be better at scoring the kind of goals you score in the playoffs. To be less dependent on special teams. And to play the kind of grinding team D that sucks the life out of opponents, sometimes better than simply playing physically. I used to say that one of the poorly understood impacts of the Bruins on opponents was that after two periods of having to do the physical give and take of just playing against Lucic (236), Chara (250), Horton (230), Boychuk (227), Thornton (217), and McQuaid (210), your legs don't work the way they're supposed to. It takes a toll. This group has much less snarl, less nasty, but they have the residual impact of being a pretty big team to have to carry around. To paraphrase Roger Murdoch: "Tell your old man to drag Frederic, Coyle and Zacha up and down the ice!" We'll see if there's anything to it. But I think it's fair game to say that there's not much difference between what we thought of the team in February 2011 and what we think of this team today, no matter how much hindsight suggests otherwise. Much better depth all around on the 2011 team…. Maybe not the favourite going into the playoffs but was no major surprise that they came out of it champs…. B’S fans were maybe shocked since we had seen all that could go wrong the previous 38 years…. If this current squad wins it all, an inquiry will be needed…. Regular season stats don’t amount to a hill of beans once the playoffs start…. Tell me who you’d rather go to war with, this year’s lineup or: Bergy,Krejci,Marchy,Looch,Horton,Recchi,Ryder,Peverley,Kelly,Campbell,Paille,Thornton…. And that’s just up front…. On the back end, this year’s d-corps isn’t even on the same planet as Z-Man, Seidenberg, Boychuk et al, in terms of physicality and being able to take care of your own end…. The only comparable here is in goal…. Looking over that roster, I think even with their age today, that group of guys would stand a better chance at a prolonged run than the current team…. Yep! Making the comparible is nothing but wishful thinking! I WOULD take that 2011 team over any current team in the NHL! FUCK I'd take the 2019, 2020, 2018, or 2014 team over his one! At least they were good enough to give you hope & a team I would've bet $ on to at least win a round! I haven't had that inkling all season ONCE! Even when Sway & Ully we're playing lights out instead of trying circus stunts & taking a one timer with a fucking goalie stick & thinking that was a high % play! I still wouldn't bet on them! Right now I'll be shocked if they won a game in the post season! I would love to be wrong, but right now! I'd take the Nashville Predators over the Bruins! They have a little over a month to turn this around. I hope they do, but I have zero faith in JM to put out the right roster, fix the PP, the PK & most importantly how to defend a lead! My only hope is that Sway & Ully become Obi Wan & find a way to get back to where they were come playoff time! If not? Sutter's line come in!
|
|
|
Post by thanx4memORRies on Feb 28, 2024 2:00:46 GMT
Much better depth all around on the 2011 team…. Maybe not the favourite going into the playoffs but was no major surprise that they came out of it champs…. B’S fans were maybe shocked since we had seen all that could go wrong the previous 38 years…. ^I think this is a lot closer than you think, especially if we make the comparison at this point in time (February/March), not after we know they peaked in the playoffs and won it all. At Center - you have to give the edge to Bergeron/Krejci and the 2011 roster. But not by as much as you think. With Savard out of the picture, Charlie Coyle will actually have more points than either Bergeron or Krejci did in 2011, and the Bruins have Zacha and a lot of depth/options at center in 2024. Gregory Campbell was the 3rd line center for most of the year in 2011, with less points per game than Matt Poitras in 2024. Still, edge to 2011. At Wing, you have to give a clear edge to 2024. Pastrnak and Marchand will outscore any wingers from 2011 by a mile. Van Reimsdyk and Frederic (C/W) should both cross the 50-point mark. DeBrusk and Geekie will outscore Ryder and Marchand from 2011 as 3rd line wingers. Edge to 2024 On Defense, this is really close. Chara-Seidenberg-Boychuk just about equals McAvoy-Lindholm-Carlo. Maybe you give Chara a leadership points to fall that way, but McAvoy is a much better offensive player and I would argue that Carlo is a better defender than Boychuk. Seidenberg = Lindholm. On the bottom-3 of the blueline you have McQuaid-Ferrence-Kampfer-Stuart vs. Grizz-Forbort-Wotherspoon-Lohrei-Shattenkirk. I don't know. I don't remember anyone being excited about Kampfer and McQuaid playing D in the playoffs. They ended up with Kaberle, but the 2024 team might end up with the trade deadline improvement too. This is pretty damn close to a wash. In Goal, again you have to take the assessment of Thomas before the Cup run. He was an All-Star in 2011, just like Swayman in 2024. Nobody would have taken Rask over (reigning Vezina winner) Ullmark at that point in time for the backup. It's really close. I don't know. If Swayman makes like 2011-Thomas in the playoffs, they get some help at the trade deadline, and perhaps a young player like Lohrei takes off like Marchand did in 2011... Again, I'm not saying it's probable and I have a hard time believing this roster could go all the way. But the Bruin roster is not so different than 2011 (in February), and looking around the league, I don't see any roster that looks definitively better. It's gonna be a roulette wheel this year. All about who gets hot in April/May. Like I stated, I wasn’t surprised the 2011 B’S won Lord Stanley…. Nothing to do with hindsight…. I liked the makeup of that squad…. Sure it took three seven-game series but that squad was built for a playoff run…. Sorry, but regular season comparisons doesn’t do it for me…. Playoffs are a different animal and I don’t see enough hunters on the current squad….
|
|
|
Post by The OC on Feb 28, 2024 5:23:47 GMT
Much better depth all around on the 2011 team…. Maybe not the favourite going into the playoffs but was no major surprise that they came out of it champs…. B’S fans were maybe shocked since we had seen all that could go wrong the previous 38 years…. ^I think this is a lot closer than you think, especially if we make the comparison at this point in time (February/March), not after we know they peaked in the playoffs and won it all. At Center - you have to give the edge to Bergeron/Krejci and the 2011 roster. But not by as much as you think. With Savard out of the picture, Charlie Coyle will actually have more points than either Bergeron or Krejci did in 2011, and the Bruins have Zacha and a lot of depth/options at center in 2024. Gregory Campbell was the 3rd line center for most of the year in 2011, with less points per game than Matt Poitras in 2024. Still, edge to 2011. At Wing, you have to give a clear edge to 2024. Pastrnak and Marchand will outscore any wingers from 2011 by a mile. Van Reimsdyk and Frederic (C/W) should both cross the 50-point mark. DeBrusk and Geekie will outscore Ryder and Marchand from 2011 as 3rd line wingers. Edge to 2024 On Defense, this is really close. Chara-Seidenberg-Boychuk just about equals McAvoy-Lindholm-Carlo. Maybe you give Chara a leadership points to fall that way, but McAvoy is a much better offensive player and I would argue that Carlo is a better defender than Boychuk. Seidenberg = Lindholm. On the bottom-3 of the blueline you have McQuaid-Ferrence-Kampfer-Stuart vs. Grizz-Forbort-Wotherspoon-Lohrei-Shattenkirk. I don't know. I don't remember anyone being excited about Kampfer and McQuaid playing D in the playoffs. They ended up with Kaberle, but the 2024 team might end up with the trade deadline improvement too. This is pretty damn close to a wash. In Goal, again you have to take the assessment of Thomas before the Cup run. He was an All-Star in 2011, just like Swayman in 2024. Nobody would have taken Rask over (reigning Vezina winner) Ullmark at that point in time for the backup. It's really close. I don't know. If Swayman makes like 2011-Thomas in the playoffs, they get some help at the trade deadline, and perhaps a young player like Lohrei takes off like Marchand did in 2011... Again, I'm not saying it's probable and I have a hard time believing this roster could go all the way. But the Bruin roster is not so different than 2011 (in February), and looking around the league, I don't see any roster that looks definitively better. It's gonna be a roulette wheel this year. All about who gets hot in April/May. You make some good points on a kinda-fun off-topic. There are two ways to compare teams, one being what would happen head to head now with the exact teams, and the other being better team for their time. Like the '70 Bruins would get smoked by most teams today because they were drunks and smokers and NHL teams only had 3 lines and wood sticks and the butterfly wasn't invented, but if you evened those playing fields they would be elite today. '24 probably beats '11 soundly head to head, mostly because evolutions in the game made Claude's collapse D obsolete. Teams activate the D now and don't take low percent point slappers. The '24 Bruins do it really well, and the '11 Bruins wouldn't have an answer. PP effectiveness is up about 10% to record highs too, and no team is making the finals with 0 PP goals in the current game. For their era, it's a different story, and you have to give major props to '11 for having the best goalie, D, and defensive forward at the time. Prime Chara was possibly the most dominant player in the world, and '11 Thomas was on another level. I'm a huge Swayman fan, but if the other guy is stopping 94% of the pucks, you're going to lose. But in other areas '24 smokes '11. #1 being '24 has a 60 goal scorer. '11 had a 30 goal man lead the team which is embarrassing comparing to one of only 22 players to hit 60 and the guy with the most goals since the start of last season. Thomas may have saved 94% of pucks in the playoffs, but it was in a League where 40 goals was a lot and only one hit 50. His % probably comes down facing Pasta. '11 had some nice depth, but let's not forget the bitching about stone hands Kelly or no hand Paille. Geekie and Freddy are already way ahead of the production Kelly and Pevs brought. Loved the passion of Ference and Boychuck but Lohrei and Carlo are superior athletes. If the playoffs started today, I'd say I'm less confident in '24 than I was in '11. I see two main differences, and it isn't actually goaltending or the top-2 C's. #1 is what you mentioned in the coach getting the most out of rookies. Lolo is the best talent to come along since CMac, and Monty needs to get the most out of him like Claude did with Marchand. A rookie breaking through can take your team to the next level because of the obvious benefit with no cap/trade loss impact. I like Monty, but I haven't been sold on his handling of 3 premier talents in Lolo, Pooter and Beecher, who I really like. The other big shortcoming I see is a lack of creative talent for the bottom 6 like '11 had in Ryder. Everyone bitched about MR but when the time came he could give you top-6 talent on the third line, score some clutch goals and even make a save. If Donnie did one thing at the deadline I'd like to see him pick up a Tarasenko type to put with Geekie and Freddy and get you a few extra goals from the third line in tight games. That and trade Gryz.
|
|
|
Post by zamboni24 on Feb 28, 2024 12:51:24 GMT
^I think this is a lot closer than you think, especially if we make the comparison at this point in time (February/March), not after we know they peaked in the playoffs and won it all. At Center - you have to give the edge to Bergeron/Krejci and the 2011 roster. But not by as much as you think. With Savard out of the picture, Charlie Coyle will actually have more points than either Bergeron or Krejci did in 2011, and the Bruins have Zacha and a lot of depth/options at center in 2024. Gregory Campbell was the 3rd line center for most of the year in 2011, with less points per game than Matt Poitras in 2024. Still, edge to 2011. At Wing, you have to give a clear edge to 2024. Pastrnak and Marchand will outscore any wingers from 2011 by a mile. Van Reimsdyk and Frederic (C/W) should both cross the 50-point mark. DeBrusk and Geekie will outscore Ryder and Marchand from 2011 as 3rd line wingers. Edge to 2024 On Defense, this is really close. Chara-Seidenberg-Boychuk just about equals McAvoy-Lindholm-Carlo. Maybe you give Chara a leadership points to fall that way, but McAvoy is a much better offensive player and I would argue that Carlo is a better defender than Boychuk. Seidenberg = Lindholm. On the bottom-3 of the blueline you have McQuaid-Ferrence-Kampfer-Stuart vs. Grizz-Forbort-Wotherspoon-Lohrei-Shattenkirk. I don't know. I don't remember anyone being excited about Kampfer and McQuaid playing D in the playoffs. They ended up with Kaberle, but the 2024 team might end up with the trade deadline improvement too. This is pretty damn close to a wash. In Goal, again you have to take the assessment of Thomas before the Cup run. He was an All-Star in 2011, just like Swayman in 2024. Nobody would have taken Rask over (reigning Vezina winner) Ullmark at that point in time for the backup. It's really close. I don't know. If Swayman makes like 2011-Thomas in the playoffs, they get some help at the trade deadline, and perhaps a young player like Lohrei takes off like Marchand did in 2011... Again, I'm not saying it's probable and I have a hard time believing this roster could go all the way. But the Bruin roster is not so different than 2011 (in February), and looking around the league, I don't see any roster that looks definitively better. It's gonna be a roulette wheel this year. All about who gets hot in April/May. Like I stated, I wasn’t surprised the 2011 B’S won Lord Stanley…. Nothing to do with hindsight…. I liked the makeup of that squad…. Sure it took three seven-game series but that squad was built for a playoff run…. Sorry, but regular season comparisons doesn’t do it for me…. Playoffs are a different animal and I don’t see enough hunters on the current squad…. Notable for me. All the naysayers that gave them no chance due to their anemic PP stats regular season.
|
|
|
Post by thanx4memORRies on Feb 28, 2024 13:28:43 GMT
Like I stated, I wasn’t surprised the 2011 B’S won Lord Stanley…. Nothing to do with hindsight…. I liked the makeup of that squad…. Sure it took three seven-game series but that squad was built for a playoff run…. Sorry, but regular season comparisons doesn’t do it for me…. Playoffs are a different animal and I don’t see enough hunters on the current squad…. Notable for me. All the naysayers that gave them no chance due to their anemic PP stats regular season. And it remained anemic…. All other areas were pretty well covered though….
|
|
|
Post by Fletcher on Feb 28, 2024 15:53:44 GMT
^I think this is a lot closer than you think, especially if we make the comparison at this point in time (February/March), not after we know they peaked in the playoffs and won it all. At Center - you have to give the edge to Bergeron/Krejci and the 2011 roster. But not by as much as you think. With Savard out of the picture, Charlie Coyle will actually have more points than either Bergeron or Krejci did in 2011, and the Bruins have Zacha and a lot of depth/options at center in 2024. Gregory Campbell was the 3rd line center for most of the year in 2011, with less points per game than Matt Poitras in 2024. Still, edge to 2011. At Wing, you have to give a clear edge to 2024. Pastrnak and Marchand will outscore any wingers from 2011 by a mile. Van Reimsdyk and Frederic (C/W) should both cross the 50-point mark. DeBrusk and Geekie will outscore Ryder and Marchand from 2011 as 3rd line wingers. Edge to 2024 On Defense, this is really close. Chara-Seidenberg-Boychuk just about equals McAvoy-Lindholm-Carlo. Maybe you give Chara a leadership points to fall that way, but McAvoy is a much better offensive player and I would argue that Carlo is a better defender than Boychuk. Seidenberg = Lindholm. On the bottom-3 of the blueline you have McQuaid-Ferrence-Kampfer-Stuart vs. Grizz-Forbort-Wotherspoon-Lohrei-Shattenkirk. I don't know. I don't remember anyone being excited about Kampfer and McQuaid playing D in the playoffs. They ended up with Kaberle, but the 2024 team might end up with the trade deadline improvement too. This is pretty damn close to a wash. In Goal, again you have to take the assessment of Thomas before the Cup run. He was an All-Star in 2011, just like Swayman in 2024. Nobody would have taken Rask over (reigning Vezina winner) Ullmark at that point in time for the backup. It's really close. I don't know. If Swayman makes like 2011-Thomas in the playoffs, they get some help at the trade deadline, and perhaps a young player like Lohrei takes off like Marchand did in 2011... Again, I'm not saying it's probable and I have a hard time believing this roster could go all the way. But the Bruin roster is not so different than 2011 (in February), and looking around the league, I don't see any roster that looks definitively better. It's gonna be a roulette wheel this year. All about who gets hot in April/May. Like I stated, I wasn’t surprised the 2011 B’S won Lord Stanley…. Nothing to do with hindsight…. I liked the makeup of that squad…. Sure it took three seven-game series but that squad was built for a playoff run…. Sorry, but regular season comparisons doesn’t do it for me…. Playoffs are a different animal and I don’t see enough hunters on the current squad…. Again, this^ is kind of the whole point here. We can't compare playoffs yet because it hasn't happened. So we are left to compare where they are/were in February. We have the standings to look at, and 2024 is better, but I agree that doesn't tell us much. We know now, that 2011 was "built for the playoff run" but we didn't know that then, and I remember a lot of hand-wringing about losing Savard and persistent questions about the flakey back half of the roster -- rookie Seguin, Ryder, Kampfer, Campbell, Thornton, McQuaid, Paille, Caron etc. -- and that frustration jumped right off the page when they went to Game 7 against a mediocre Canadien squad in Round 1. Teetering on the brink of failure. I wish we could pull up the old BDC threads. Confidence was not high. There were few believers. At Game 7 vs. Montreal, nobody was saying "Hey, these guys are built for the playoffs". If pressed though, I would say the advantage of the 2011 team that stands out the most to me was being able to roll out the most reliable combination of players in key situations (eg. to hold that 1 goal lead in the 3rd with a D-zone faceoff). Chara and Seidenberg were almost always paired together and played a ton of minutes. They were so hard to beat 5-on-5. Combine that with Bergeron at center and you had a certain confidence that I don't really feel with the 2024 team. McAvoy and Lindholm seem to rarely play together, and they just don't have a Bergeron option at center. Carlo and McAvoy play the same side. So, I just don't see that combination of players that can inspire confidence under duress, coming out for a critical 3rd period faceoff, with 3 minutes left, and a 1-goal lead.
|
|
|
Post by Fletcher on Feb 28, 2024 16:00:21 GMT
The other big shortcoming I see is a lack of creative talent for the bottom 6 like '11 had in Ryder. Everyone bitched about MR but when the time came he could give you top-6 talent on the third line, score some clutch goals and even make a save. If Donnie did one thing at the deadline I'd like to see him pick up a Tarasenko type to put with Geekie and Freddy and get you a few extra goals from the third line in tight games. That and trade Gryz. Couldn't 2024 Debrusk = 2011 Ryder. A talented but maligned up-and-down regular season winger, who becomes Johnny on the Spot in the playoffs and starts burying clutch goals...? If only.
|
|
|
Post by RichHillOntario on Feb 28, 2024 16:02:36 GMT
Sweens not in great shape without involving bodies vs what's left of remaining draft choices. Look for teams like the Rags to play the old Bolts LTIR shell game with guys like Chytil and Wheeler to pick up Henrique and/or Vatrano. Would also be nice to limit how much a former team is allowed to continue paying salary to help against the cap. Read where Seabass was asked what the B’S need come deadline and he said there’re looking for a physical d-man and some help up front…. Also said that they’re not sure how acquiring those pieces can be done…. The only body that could be moved to acquire a meaningful piece or two is Linus but I highly doubt that’s the route the B’S are going to take…. I also saw his response to Fluto's asking of his trade deadline plans in The Athletic, thanx. He said the club could always use help on offense but that "Another stiff defender would be good." I read a post that suggested the Bruins already had some stiffs on D so why get more?
|
|
|
Post by dannycater on Feb 28, 2024 16:30:35 GMT
Read where Seabass was asked what the B’S need come deadline and he said there’re looking for a physical d-man and some help up front…. Also said that they’re not sure how acquiring those pieces can be done…. The only body that could be moved to acquire a meaningful piece or two is Linus but I highly doubt that’s the route the B’S are going to take…. I also saw his response to Fluto's asking of his trade deadline plans in The Athletic, thanx. He said the club could always use help on offense but that "Another stiff defender would be good." I read a post that suggested the Bruins already had some stiffs on D so why get more? B's lead the league in "stiff defenders"...Forbort, Shat, Carlo, Gryz...pylon-nesque at times
|
|
|
Post by The OC on Feb 28, 2024 16:35:28 GMT
The other big shortcoming I see is a lack of creative talent for the bottom 6 like '11 had in Ryder. Everyone bitched about MR but when the time came he could give you top-6 talent on the third line, score some clutch goals and even make a save. If Donnie did one thing at the deadline I'd like to see him pick up a Tarasenko type to put with Geekie and Freddy and get you a few extra goals from the third line in tight games. That and trade Gryz. Couldn't 2024 Debrusk = 2011 Ryder. A talented but maligned up-and-down regular season winger, who becomes Johnny on the Spot in the playoffs and starts burying clutch goals...? If only. He absolutely could, similar situation in terms of talent/fan frustration. But I view him as a top-6 guy on the current roster, and I guess that's my point that makes this team a little short right now. If someone came in and bumped him down to line 3, it could give that dynamic. I'd through Brazo with Marchand and Coyle for a game or two; put JVR with Pasta/Zacha and JDB with Geek and Fred. Lotta net front presence on all three lines there.
|
|
|
Post by thanx4memORRies on Feb 28, 2024 16:44:26 GMT
Read where Seabass was asked what the B’S need come deadline and he said there’re looking for a physical d-man and some help up front…. Also said that they’re not sure how acquiring those pieces can be done…. The only body that could be moved to acquire a meaningful piece or two is Linus but I highly doubt that’s the route the B’S are going to take…. I also saw his response to Fluto's asking of his trade deadline plans in The Athletic, thanx. He said the club could always use help on offense but that "Another stiff defender would be good." I read a post that suggested the Bruins already had some stiffs on D so why get more? Can never have enough stiffs….
|
|
|
Post by dannycater on Feb 28, 2024 16:52:15 GMT
Couldn't 2024 Debrusk = 2011 Ryder. A talented but maligned up-and-down regular season winger, who becomes Johnny on the Spot in the playoffs and starts burying clutch goals...? If only. He absolutely could, similar situation in terms of talent/fan frustration. But I view him as a top-6 guy on the current roster, and I guess that's my point that makes this team a little short right now. If someone came in and bumped him down to line 3, it could give that dynamic. I'd through Brazo with Marchand and Coyle for a game or two; put JVR with Pasta/Zacha and JDB with Geek and Fred. Lotta net front presence on all three lines there. Freddy's lack of ice time as well as Boqvist, Richard late in games is disturbing...this is Monty's biggest fault. He shortens the bench and he can't do that in playoffs...he has to trust guys and trust lines, 1 through 4. Sure you can limit a 4th line shift in a 1-1 game or down 2-1, but up 3-1? up 2-0? have to make sure everyone is fresh...same with d pairs, all 6 need or should play ahead in games...always seems like 88, 73 are on total fumes in overtimes.
|
|
|
Post by thanx4memORRies on Feb 28, 2024 17:04:16 GMT
I also saw his response to Fluto's asking of his trade deadline plans in The Athletic, thanx. He said the club could always use help on offense but that "Another stiff defender would be good." I read a post that suggested the Bruins already had some stiffs on D so why get more? B's lead the league in "stiff defenders"...Forbort, Shat, Carlo, Gryz...pylon-nesque at times It’s ok to be pylon-esque (great word Danny) if you’re also able to use your big frame when the opportunity presents itself…. Unlike Brando and Forbort that are unwilling to do so on a more consistent basis…. Going back to 2011, although not known exactly for their mobility, Boychuk and McQuaid never missed a chance to lay on the body…. Add that to Z-Man, and opposing forwards certainly didn’t look forward to playing the B’S…. And, although smaller in stature, Seidenberg and Ference didn’t shy away from the physical aspect either…. On the other hand, opponents today feel invigorated after having received a soothing massage against this d-corps….
|
|
|
Post by brewwins on Feb 28, 2024 17:27:52 GMT
I also saw his response to Fluto's asking of his trade deadline plans in The Athletic, thanx. He said the club could always use help on offense but that "Another stiff defender would be good." I read a post that suggested the Bruins already had some stiffs on D so why get more? B's lead the league in "stiff defenders"...Forbort, Shat, Carlo, Gryz...pylon-nesque at times I wouldn't put Carlo in that group of stiffs. He's actually quietly having a very good year. Shut-down-esque not pylon-esque.
|
|
|
Post by brewwins on Feb 28, 2024 17:28:51 GMT
Like I stated, I wasn’t surprised the 2011 B’S won Lord Stanley…. Nothing to do with hindsight…. I liked the makeup of that squad…. Sure it took three seven-game series but that squad was built for a playoff run…. Sorry, but regular season comparisons doesn’t do it for me…. Playoffs are a different animal and I don’t see enough hunters on the current squad…. Notable for me. All the naysayers that gave them no chance due to their anemic PP stats regular season. They got Caberle to help with that and well, he didn't. But I liked him. He would just never shoot.
|
|
|
Post by bookboy007 on Feb 28, 2024 21:32:48 GMT
I think you're missing the point. The 2011 team hit the skids hard in November 2010. They went 6-6-2, shut out twice and scored 1 goal in 4 other games. The PP was at 12%. They also hit the skids in February, losing 4 of 5. The PK hit the skids this time and was 74%. No one was predicting a Cup win. And the team was coming off of 3-0, 3-0, uh-oh, after also losing in a game 7 in 2009 and in 2008, so the idea that they would win not one, not two, but THREE game 7s on the way to a Cup? No one was saying that without getting told to go easy on the pom poms. The point of the comparison is that there were no more profound reasons to expect the Bruins to win the Cup in 2011 than there are this year. Most of the reasons people might give are coloured heavily with hindsight. They only had two players with more than 60 points; they had one 30 goal scorer, and only 3 other players who hit 20. They had middle of the pack special teams, but elite goaltending with Thomas winning his second Vez. That formula seems similar in that Krejci hadn't led the playoffs in scoring yet - thanks to Mike Richards, but still - and Bergeron was a 20g guy at that point, and they were looking to get scoring from a bunch of players who people thought were playing too high up the lineup with Lucic being a 4th liner on the top line, Horton having no heartbeat, Recchi having an AARP card and Ryder being a disappointment as a UFA signing. They had no one in the top 30 scorers. Now...there are things you look at and say it was more possible for those 2011 Bruins to carve a path. Maybe. But given the failures of the previous two playoffs, how much faith did people really have? And how different is that from the current situation? It seems like they have a path and OC put his finger on it. They have gotten heavier. Bigger. They have more guys who score goals by going to the net and setting up camp. The theory is to be better at scoring the kind of goals you score in the playoffs. To be less dependent on special teams. And to play the kind of grinding team D that sucks the life out of opponents, sometimes better than simply playing physically. I used to say that one of the poorly understood impacts of the Bruins on opponents was that after two periods of having to do the physical give and take of just playing against Lucic (236), Chara (250), Horton (230), Boychuk (227), Thornton (217), and McQuaid (210), your legs don't work the way they're supposed to. It takes a toll. This group has much less snarl, less nasty, but they have the residual impact of being a pretty big team to have to carry around. To paraphrase Roger Murdoch: "Tell your old man to drag Frederic, Coyle and Zacha up and down the ice!" We'll see if there's anything to it. But I think it's fair game to say that there's not much difference between what we thought of the team in February 2011 and what we think of this team today, no matter how much hindsight suggests otherwise. Much better depth all around on the 2011 team…. Maybe not the favourite going into the playoffs but was no major surprise that they came out of it champs…. B’S fans were maybe shocked since we had seen all that could go wrong the previous 38 years…. If this current squad wins it all, an inquiry will be needed…. Regular season stats don’t amount to a hill of beans once the playoffs start….Tell me who you’d rather go to war with, this year’s lineup or: Bergy,Krejci,Marchy,Looch,Horton,Recchi,Ryder,Peverley,Kelly,Campbell,Paille,Thornton…. And that’s just up front…. On the back end, this year’s d-corps isn’t even on the same planet as Z-Man, Seidenberg, Boychuk et al, in terms of physicality and being able to take care of your own end…. The only comparable here is in goal…. Looking over that roster, I think even with their age today, that group of guys would stand a better chance at a prolonged run than the current team…. I think you're still looking at it through the lens of what they did after the 2011 playoffs started, not how you would have seen it before those playoffs. Do you remember how offensively inept that roster was in 2009-10? They signed Miro Satan off the trash heap and he was like the second coming of Nifty compared to how hard that team had to work to score goals. They didn't score 200 goals that entire season. People were crying in their beer over the loss of Phil Kessel because of it. And the main difference between the 2009-10 and 2010-11 teams was the addition of "no heartbeat" Horton and a rookie who had 0 goals in 20 games the year before. Boychuk in 2011 had played half a season in the NHL and was basically a machine that put the puck off the glass and out playing beside Chara. Boston was Seidenberg's fifth team, and they got him and Matt Bartkowski for Byron Bitz, Craig Weller and a 2. Not exactly a guy that everyone is clamouring to have. Chara was Chara. If you take the names off and compare the details - scoring, height/weight/age, plus/minus, team record, team goal diff., special teams - and compare the two teams, I don't think you'd find it anything like as easy to say 2011 is clearly the team. And then the bold - this is the point exactly. We're people want to throw in the towel on this team based solely on regular season performance. They can't hold leads in the dog days of the season. The goalies seem to be less focussed. They either get all their goals from Pastrnak or from the bottom six - never a mix. Montgomery is trying every line combination he can think of, including some that require signing a guy on an AHL deal to an NHL deal. And we're talking about comparing the regular seasons of 2010-11 and today - take the playoffs out of it because you don't know what this team will do in the playoffs unless you're going to say "based on what I've seen during this regular season...."
|
|
|
Post by bookboy007 on Feb 28, 2024 21:40:56 GMT
I also saw his response to Fluto's asking of his trade deadline plans in The Athletic, thanx. He said the club could always use help on offense but that "Another stiff defender would be good." I read a post that suggested the Bruins already had some stiffs on D so why get more? B's lead the league in "stiff defenders"...Forbort, Shat, Carlo, Gryz...pylon-nesque at times You should watch an Ottawa game sometime. Hamonic will make you grateful for Toby. Branstromm is Toby, but without any stats to confuse the issue of whether or how much he sucks. JBD is basically Wotherspoon. And Chicklets? Hoo boy. At this point, he is the worst of Forbort and Shattenkirk all in one. The way he dogs it back when he gets beat? Embarrassing. And if you think Carlo is a stiff, you're just trying to tempt jenny back.
|
|
|
Post by bookboy007 on Feb 28, 2024 21:43:48 GMT
He absolutely could, similar situation in terms of talent/fan frustration. But I view him as a top-6 guy on the current roster, and I guess that's my point that makes this team a little short right now. If someone came in and bumped him down to line 3, it could give that dynamic. I'd through Brazo with Marchand and Coyle for a game or two; put JVR with Pasta/Zacha and JDB with Geek and Fred. Lotta net front presence on all three lines there. Freddy's lack of ice time as well as Boqvist, Richard late in games is disturbing...this is Monty's biggest fault. He shortens the bench and he can't do that in playoffs...he has to trust guys and trust lines, 1 through 4. Sure you can limit a 4th line shift in a 1-1 game or down 2-1, but up 3-1? up 2-0? have to make sure everyone is fresh...same with d pairs, all 6 need or should play ahead in games...always seems like 88, 73 are on total fumes in overtimes. History suggests the opposite is true and that the failing is on the players who survive the shortening. Chicago won a Cup playing the living shit out of 8 players and spotting some other guys in.
|
|
|
Post by bookboy007 on Feb 28, 2024 22:02:34 GMT
Notable for me. All the naysayers that gave them no chance due to their anemic PP stats regular season. And it remained anemic…. All other areas were pretty well covered though…. You may think so, and you may have believed it then, but you'd have been totally in the minority. Boychuk and McQuaid at that point in time were on the team because, as reclamation projects from other teams' farms, they made nothing. They were a concession to the Cap. Boychuk looked like the dumbest player in hockey - and probably the best description of that early Boychuk was he was a 230lb version of Clifton. People hated Ryder who was supposed to be a 30 goal guy and wasn't able to be a 20 goal guy or do much in previous playoffs. No one trusted Thomas who some blamed for the loss to Carolina in 2009, and there was a steady "play Tuukka" drumbeat. There was a long running worry that without Wideman, the blueline lacked a PMD. Oh, lord, if you cannot recall the hand-wringing about the need for a "PMD" then I can't believe you when you say you thought they were covered. And a "snipah!" That one was like nails on a chalk board, but you could understand people worrying that the team that scored under 200 goals the year before didn't have the offensive chops. The JTS ex-girlfriend love was in the air, still. There was a long and loud chorus of people saying that the team would never go anywhere - a curse of the Jumbino - with two 2nd line C and no "legit" number 1. As much as people loved Lucic, they also didn't believe he was a first line LW on a contender. Long story short - YOU may not have been surprised, but that's not true of most Bruins fans or the hockey world at the time. Bleacher Report correctly called them making the Final but had them losing to the Canucks. NHL.com had two of seven writers predict they would make it to the Final but no one picked them to win (in both cases, the prediction was a loss to the JTSharts). I wish I could go back and see what people were saying on BDC back then.
|
|
|
Post by thanx4memORRies on Feb 28, 2024 23:14:18 GMT
And it remained anemic…. All other areas were pretty well covered though…. You may think so, and you may have believed it then, but you'd have been totally in the minority. Boychuk and McQuaid at that point in time were on the team because, as reclamation projects from other teams' farms, they made nothing. They were a concession to the Cap. Boychuk looked like the dumbest player in hockey - and probably the best description of that early Boychuk was he was a 230lb version of Clifton. People hated Ryder who was supposed to be a 30 goal guy and wasn't able to be a 20 goal guy or do much in previous playoffs. No one trusted Thomas who some blamed for the loss to Carolina in 2009, and there was a steady "play Tuukka" drumbeat. There was a long running worry that without Wideman, the blueline lacked a PMD. Oh, lord, if you cannot recall the hand-wringing about the need for a "PMD" then I can't believe you when you say you thought they were covered. And a "snipah!" That one was like nails on a chalk board, but you could understand people worrying that the team that scored under 200 goals the year before didn't have the offensive chops. The JTS ex-girlfriend love was in the air, still. There was a long and loud chorus of people saying that the team would never go anywhere - a curse of the Jumbino - with two 2nd line C and no "legit" number 1. As much as people loved Lucic, they also didn't believe he was a first line LW on a contender. Long story short - YOU may not have been surprised, but that's not true of most Bruins fans or the hockey world at the time. Bleacher Report correctly called them making the Final but had them losing to the Canucks. NHL.com had two of seven writers predict they would make it to the Final but no one picked them to win (in both cases, the prediction was a loss to the JTSharts). I wish I could go back and see what people were saying on BDC back then. I said the pp remained anemic…. As for Boychuck and McQuaid, those reclamation projects panned out pretty well imo…. Although that Lord Stanley winner will never be mistaken for the Shabs’, Isles’, or Oilers’ dynasties, it still had fewer question marks than this year’s B’S squad has heading into the postseason…. And substantially fewer….
|
|
|
Post by bookboy007 on Feb 29, 2024 4:59:34 GMT
You may think so, and you may have believed it then, but you'd have been totally in the minority. Boychuk and McQuaid at that point in time were on the team because, as reclamation projects from other teams' farms, they made nothing. They were a concession to the Cap. Boychuk looked like the dumbest player in hockey - and probably the best description of that early Boychuk was he was a 230lb version of Clifton. People hated Ryder who was supposed to be a 30 goal guy and wasn't able to be a 20 goal guy or do much in previous playoffs. No one trusted Thomas who some blamed for the loss to Carolina in 2009, and there was a steady "play Tuukka" drumbeat. There was a long running worry that without Wideman, the blueline lacked a PMD. Oh, lord, if you cannot recall the hand-wringing about the need for a "PMD" then I can't believe you when you say you thought they were covered. And a "snipah!" That one was like nails on a chalk board, but you could understand people worrying that the team that scored under 200 goals the year before didn't have the offensive chops. The JTS ex-girlfriend love was in the air, still. There was a long and loud chorus of people saying that the team would never go anywhere - a curse of the Jumbino - with two 2nd line C and no "legit" number 1. As much as people loved Lucic, they also didn't believe he was a first line LW on a contender. Long story short - YOU may not have been surprised, but that's not true of most Bruins fans or the hockey world at the time. Bleacher Report correctly called them making the Final but had them losing to the Canucks. NHL.com had two of seven writers predict they would make it to the Final but no one picked them to win (in both cases, the prediction was a loss to the JTSharts). I wish I could go back and see what people were saying on BDC back then. I said the pp remained anemic…. As for Boychuck and McQuaid, those reclamation projects panned out pretty well imo…. Although that Lord Stanley winner will never be mistaken for the Shabs’, Isles’, or Oilers’ dynasties, it still had fewer question marks than this year’s B’S squad has heading into the postseason…. And substantially fewer…. I can't fathom how you think that. I really can't. When I think back to how people talked about them - from the lack of faith in Thomas, Krejci, Bergeron or Horton to the poor play of Kelly, Kaberle, and Pevs post trade to the lingering disdain for them as substantially thr same team that blew a 3-0/3-0. Agree to disagree, I guess.
|
|
|
Post by MrHulot on Feb 29, 2024 6:44:45 GMT
Couldn't 2024 Debrusk = 2011 Ryder. A talented but maligned up-and-down regular season winger, who becomes Johnny on the Spot in the playoffs and starts burying clutch goals...? If only. He absolutely could, similar situation in terms of talent/fan frustration. But I view him as a top-6 guy on the current roster, and I guess that's my point that makes this team a little short right now. If someone came in and bumped him down to line 3, it could give that dynamic. I'd through Brazo with Marchand and Coyle for a game or two; put JVR with Pasta/Zacha and JDB with Geek and Fred. Lotta net front presence on all three lines there. Top notch forward line suggestion, but you can be sure Montgomery will not go there.
|
|
|
Post by dannycater on Feb 29, 2024 7:40:29 GMT
I also saw his response to Fluto's asking of his trade deadline plans in The Athletic, thanx. He said the club could always use help on offense but that "Another stiff defender would be good." I read a post that suggested the Bruins already had some stiffs on D so why get more? B's lead the league in "stiff defenders"...Forbort, Shat, Carlo, Gryz...pylon-nesque at times It was a joke, Carlo is having a great season, Forbort when he is on is a shutdown d, Shat has his moments of helping offense, and Gryz....uhhhmm....uhh...yeah he offers a lot, I'll figure it out next post.
|
|
|
Post by bookboy007 on Feb 29, 2024 16:13:35 GMT
He absolutely could, similar situation in terms of talent/fan frustration. But I view him as a top-6 guy on the current roster, and I guess that's my point that makes this team a little short right now. If someone came in and bumped him down to line 3, it could give that dynamic. I'd through Brazo with Marchand and Coyle for a game or two; put JVR with Pasta/Zacha and JDB with Geek and Fred. Lotta net front presence on all three lines there. Top notch forward line suggestion, but you can be sure Montgomery will not go there. He tried it with Richard.
|
|