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Post by Fletcher on Mar 5, 2024 15:51:04 GMT
I have always supported and admired the NHL's resistance to the star personality culture, compared to other pro sports (Football, Basketball in particular). For the most part, hockey really is still a team-first game, and even in the youth/junior culture, the star player is still generally shaped to be the hardest worker, say the right things, and respect the team/teammates. Coaching in the NHL does not really allow for different standards for star players. That's all good.
With all of that said though, does the NHL have a major star player personality problem? Are any of the top star players likeable at all?
When I look at McDavid, MacKinnon, Matthews, Ovie, Kucherov, Crosby...they range range from complete douchebag to socially awkward and reclusive.
Honestly, can any of them give an interview that's even mildly interesting? If I had to get a drink with one of these guys I'd probably end up with alcohol poisoning to blot out the awkwardness and boredom. Perhaps, we should be grateful in Boston for Pasta and Marchand, because they are at least somewhat interesting and engaging.
I love watching McDavid play and consider myself a fan, but Good Lord, he has the social skills of an autistic 2nd grader. MacKinnon may be even worse. He's completely joyless, is not liked by his teammates and would probably still be a virgin if girls didn't like money. Crosby can be the greatest player in a generation and still some how come off as the whiney hall monitor, who you wish would get beat up by the school bully. Matthews? Ugh...no thanks. Ovie loves his genocidal dictator back home, when he speaks at all. Kucherov whines, and taunts, and acts like an arrogant jerk whenever possible.
They're all ugly, and have shitty personalities. It's like they're all from a genetic pool, sired by the likes of Max Pacioretty and Phil Kessel. Collectively, they lend themselves less to images of stardom and athletic greatness, and more to a cohort of mouth-breathers in an online Dungeons and Dragons tournament, on prom night. How do you market these guys? On the ice, only, I guess.
Hopefully the Bedards, Hughes', Will Smiths, and Mack Celebrinis will bring a little star player appeal both on the ice and off it.
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Post by sandogbrewin on Mar 5, 2024 17:03:16 GMT
Definitely didn't even mind Jeremy Roenick sticking his foot in his mouth at times. NHL players are bland and boring these days.
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Post by bookboy007 on Mar 5, 2024 18:39:00 GMT
I have always supported and admired the NHL's resistance to the star personality culture, compared to other pro sports (Football, Basketball in particular). For the most part, hockey really is still a team-first game, and even in the youth/junior culture, the star player is still generally shaped to be the hardest worker, say the right things, and respect the team/teammates. Coaching in the NHL does not really allow for different standards for star players. That's all good. With all of that said though, does the NHL have a major star player personality problem? Are any of the top star players likeable at all? When I look at McDavid, MacKinnon, Matthews, Ovie, Kucherov, Crosby...they range range from complete douchebag to socially awkward and reclusive. Honestly, can any of them give an interview that's even mildly interesting? If I had to get a drink with one of these guys I'd probably end up with alcohol poisoning to blot out the awkwardness and boredom. Perhaps, we should be grateful in Boston for Pasta and Marchand, because they are at least somewhat interesting and engaging. I love watching McDavid play and consider myself a fan, but Good Lord, he has the social skills of an autistic 2nd grader. MacKinnon may be even worse. He's completely joyless, is not liked by his teammates and would probably still be a virgin if girls didn't like money. Crosby can be the greatest player in a generation and still some how come off as the whiney hall monitor, who you wish would get beat up by the school bully. Matthews? Ugh...no thanks. Ovie loves his genocidal dictator back home, when he speaks at all. Kucherov whines, and taunts, and acts like an arrogant jerk whenever possible. They're all ugly, and have shitty personalities. It's like they're all from a genetic pool, sired by the likes of Max Pacioretty and Phil Kessel. Collectively, they lend themselves less to images of stardom and athletic greatness, and more to a cohort of mouth-breathers in an online Dungeons and Dragons tournament, on prom night. How do you market these guys? On the ice, only, I guess. Hopefully the Bedards, Hughes', Will Smiths, and Mack Celebrinis will bring a little star player appeal both on the ice and off it. sandog brings up an interesting point. It wasn't always like this. Phil was fun and always ready to pop off. Chelios was total hothead who threatened the commissioner. There were always guys. Tiger Williams. Conroy was a good interview when he did his brief star turn in Calgary. Lots of players who had a lot of love for the game and if you asked them questions that tapped into it, you got personality. And you can market "bad guy" more than you can market bad guys. I'm inclined to think it's the push from the top to be MORE like the NBA, with Gary's on-going attempt to be the David Stern of the NHL. Market players not teams. That's widely considered part of the NBA's boom. But they had Magic and Bird and Jordan and Barkley and Dr. J to market. Then Shaq and Kobe. If they had to start now, I think they'd have the same problem. LeBron=Crosby. Curry=Matthews+winning. Djokic=McDavid/Draisaitl (50/50). Some in the media have taken up the call to market the players not the game (to hard for new fans to understand; can't see the puck etc) or the teams (what's the population of Minnesota?). I think that's a disaster. Part of the disaster is that players like Crosby (and Lindros before him), McDavid, Bedard get the "next one" label at 15 and they are probed like every human in a UFO movie for the next 25 years of their lives. During the key years when they should be developing personalities, they're developing corporate personae and branding so that they don't cost themselves millions in endorsements by saying something stupid like a 17 yr old is going to do. They're trained to be careful and measured and bland - a blank canvas for Red Bull or Bet 99. And because you brought up Kessel...I don't remember where I heard it, might have been an intermission on the WBZ, but it was JVR talking about Kessel when he first got to Toronto. Coach came into the room and laid out the gameplan. Soon as he left the room, Kessel says "Reemer...what's the gameplan?" I can't remember what JVR said, but Kessel's response was "Get me the rock!" No matter what, you get it, you get me the rock!" I wonder if you can put up the numbers these guys put up and NOT be a twat. You have to be a little selfish just because it's justified in some way. We're all more likely to win if the puck is on MY stick in the slot with 10 seconds left. But the more that bleeds into your personality? The harder it is to be likeable. Some stars can pull off the likeable prick, but it's kind of rare and usually they aren't the guys who get the most endorsements. Iafrate was a prick but he was fun. |
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Post by islamorada on Mar 5, 2024 20:23:27 GMT
I have always supported and admired the NHL's resistance to the star personality culture, compared to other pro sports (Football, Basketball in particular). For the most part, hockey really is still a team-first game, and even in the youth/junior culture, the star player is still generally shaped to be the hardest worker, say the right things, and respect the team/teammates. Coaching in the NHL does not really allow for different standards for star players. That's all good. With all of that said though, does the NHL have a major star player personality problem? Are any of the top star players likeable at all? When I look at McDavid, MacKinnon, Matthews, Ovie, Kucherov, Crosby...they range range from complete douchebag to socially awkward and reclusive. Honestly, can any of them give an interview that's even mildly interesting? If I had to get a drink with one of these guys I'd probably end up with alcohol poisoning to blot out the awkwardness and boredom. Perhaps, we should be grateful in Boston for Pasta and Marchand, because they are at least somewhat interesting and engaging. I love watching McDavid play and consider myself a fan, but Good Lord, he has the social skills of an autistic 2nd grader. MacKinnon may be even worse. He's completely joyless, is not liked by his teammates and would probably still be a virgin if girls didn't like money. Crosby can be the greatest player in a generation and still some how come off as the whiney hall monitor, who you wish would get beat up by the school bully. Matthews? Ugh...no thanks. Ovie loves his genocidal dictator back home, when he speaks at all. Kucherov whines, and taunts, and acts like an arrogant jerk whenever possible. They're all ugly, and have shitty personalities. It's like they're all from a genetic pool, sired by the likes of Max Pacioretty and Phil Kessel. Collectively, they lend themselves less to images of stardom and athletic greatness, and more to a cohort of mouth-breathers in an online Dungeons and Dragons tournament, on prom night. How do you market these guys? On the ice, only, I guess. Hopefully the Bedards, Hughes', Will Smiths, and Mack Celebrinis will bring a little star player appeal both on the ice and off it. That was one of the best paragraphs I have read on here in a long time. Thanks. The Bedard love fest just makes me puke this year. |
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Post by MrHulot on Mar 6, 2024 4:42:54 GMT
 How can you possibly market a "guy" like the one on the left?
He looks like he's about to puke, and he makes me want to puke too. |
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Post by MrHulot on Mar 6, 2024 4:46:54 GMT
...I love watching McDavid play and consider myself a fan, but Good Lord, he has the social skills of an autistic 2nd grader... |
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Post by MrHulot on Mar 6, 2024 4:50:22 GMT
...Crosby can be the greatest player in a generation and still some how come off as the whiney hall monitor, who you wish would get beat up by the school bully...
But no wonder here, Cindy Crybaby was trained by another mega asshole, Mario the Hypocrite, whom he "roomed" with during his formative years. |
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Post by MrHulot on Mar 6, 2024 4:52:18 GMT
...Kucherov whines, and taunts, and acts like an arrogant jerk whenever possible... |
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Post by dannycater on Mar 6, 2024 14:32:24 GMT
Milbury, Cherry, Roenick, Melrose, Bis I like--all characters and say some funny things--but it's an NHL image problem as well as the way they don't really get how Forslund should be the National announcer over pretty much all the others. And his color guy probably should be Shane Hnidy. Hell I miss Keith Jones because even he had some really wry wit lines...The color guys just don't do much anymore---or color girls.
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Post by MrHulot on Mar 7, 2024 15:48:32 GMT
Just had a nice long phone conversation with a sports photographer from Germany. According to his information, Leon D. is "not the sharpest tool in the shed".
On the other hand, his team captain Connor McDavid is allegedly much better with fans than with the media - reportedly very relaxed when signing autographs, totally different from the impression one gets when he's bombarded with questions.
And, oh wonder, Sidney Crosby is also very nice with fans, and also very patient.
The best one, however, was (at least according to my friend's info) Bobby Hull. Had a long story for each autograph he signed, and he signed quite a few of them.
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Post by 50belowzero on Mar 7, 2024 16:33:36 GMT
When smoking and drinking started being frowned upon by the NHL and players started taking fitness too seriously, player personalities stifled quickly.
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Post by islamorada on Mar 7, 2024 19:24:22 GMT
When smoking and drinking started being frowned upon by the NHL and players started taking fitness too seriously, player personalities stifled quickly. It's Zdeno's fault then,  ! |
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Post by MrHulot on Mar 7, 2024 21:51:41 GMT
When smoking and drinking started being frowned upon by the NHL and players started taking fitness too seriously, player personalities stifled quickly.
It's combination of many things, social media being one of them. |
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Post by bookboy007 on Mar 7, 2024 22:10:50 GMT
When smoking and drinking started being frowned upon by the NHL and players started taking fitness too seriously, player personalities stifled quickly. It's Zdeno's fault then, ! Where is the big man? |
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Post by bookboy007 on Mar 7, 2024 22:23:18 GMT
When smoking and drinking started being frowned upon by the NHL and players started taking fitness too seriously, player personalities stifled quickly.
It's combination of many things, social media being one of them.Social media and commodification of players at younger and younger ages. I've told this story before but it stuck with me. In junior hockey towns they track the trade deadline in junior almost as much as for the NHL. And because a player has a time limit on his junior career, they cycle is even more demanding in terms of the pressure it puts to move guys around to teams who have a shot at a title. If your best player is one year post draft and he's top 5 in league scoring but your team is a bubble team...you trade him because he'll be in the NHL next year. Maybe the A depending on his birthday. Or he'll take up one of the overager spots, but your team won't be any better. And these trades can be dopey with teams trading second rounders 4-5 years in the future. Last year's deadline they talked to a GM the week after and he said he went home and told his wife he had effectively traded an 8 year old because he traded a pick 8 years out. That's wild. You have to think about whether there are 8 year olds you don't want to miss in the draft. That kind of early scrutiny and the streaming of players to elite and feeder leagues means players are made aware of being judged on everything ... as early as 8. Of course they become dicks. I would also add ... money. Hockey is expensive, and getting more so with composite sticks, ultra lite equipment, new hi-tech jerseys (no longer sweaters when you see how thin they are), and the demand on ice time for practices, games, tournaments and tournament travel. Players whose family have a bit more money can pay for skating coaches, skills coaches, personal trainers, nutritionists...everything a pro gets short of the hookers and blow. And you see this in the number of legacies now in the league. I mean, I would love to see a list of players whose fathers played either NHL hockey or in a top European league. Guys who made money and connections and know who the pros do things. What percentage of the league do you think that is? Now look at the guys in the AHL who have long term roster spots. Who might be getting more chances than a kid off the street. I don't like how much the NHL is leaning on nepo babies, but in my experience, nepo babies almost always have abrasive bullshit personalites. |
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Post by 50belowzero on Mar 7, 2024 23:30:45 GMT
When smoking and drinking started being frowned upon by the NHL and players started taking fitness too seriously, player personalities stifled quickly.
It's combination of many things, social media being one of them.In a way it is and in another it isn't. I agree that between social media & Iphones players are scared to do anything controversial or say anything sketchy in fear it will blow up and their career id done. Just think if there were iphones back when Cashman & Espo played. |
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Post by schlich on Mar 8, 2024 0:30:59 GMT
oh. they had a discushaling to figure it all out.
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Post by schlich on Mar 8, 2024 0:35:46 GMT
oh. they had a discushaling to figure it all out. oops. wrong thread |
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Post by MrHulot on Mar 8, 2024 3:17:38 GMT
Too simple.
It's combination of many things, social media being one of them. Social media and commodification of players at younger and younger ages. I've told this story before but it stuck with me. In junior hockey towns they track the trade deadline in junior almost as much as for the NHL. And because a player has a time limit on his junior career, they cycle is even more demanding in terms of the pressure it puts to move guys around to teams who have a shot at a title. If your best player is one year post draft and he's top 5 in league scoring but your team is a bubble team...you trade him because he'll be in the NHL next year. Maybe the A depending on his birthday. Or he'll take up one of the overager spots, but your team won't be any better. And these trades can be dopey with teams trading second rounders 4-5 years in the future. Last year's deadline they talked to a GM the week after and he said he went home and told his wife he had effectively traded an 8 year old because he traded a pick 8 years out. That's wild. You have to think about whether there are 8 year olds you don't want to miss in the draft. That kind of early scrutiny and the streaming of players to elite and feeder leagues means players are made aware of being judged on everything ... as early as 8. Of course they become dicks. I would also add ... money. Hockey is expensive, and getting more so with composite sticks, ultra lite equipment, new hi-tech jerseys (no longer sweaters when you see how thin they are), and the demand on ice time for practices, games, tournaments and tournament travel. Players whose family have a bit more money can pay for skating coaches, skills coaches, personal trainers, nutritionists...everything a pro gets short of the hookers and blow. And you see this in the number of legacies now in the league. I mean, I would love to see a list of players whose fathers played either NHL hockey or in a top European league. Guys who made money and connections and know who the pros do things. What percentage of the league do you think that is? Now look at the guys in the AHL who have long term roster spots. Who might be getting more chances than a kid off the street. I don't like how much the NHL is leaning on nepo babies, but in my experience, nepo babies almost always have abrasive bullshit personalites.  Quod erat demonstrandum. |
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Post by Fletcher on Mar 8, 2024 14:55:58 GMT
Definitely didn't even mind Jeremy Roenick sticking his foot in his mouth at times. NHL players are bland and boring these days. There is definitely a blandness, especially in interviews, but we can probably attribute that to teams and agents coaching the hell out of these guys to say the right thing (and post the right things) in this climate of sensitivity, political correctness, and Twitter mob justice. I get that, even if it makes things boring. The star players today seem to have even bigger problems than that though, and I wonder if it relates to the grooming process of a superstar hockey prospect, as a kid. Like not having normal social interactions growing up, and spending your childhood in hockey rinks instead doing the things other kids do. McDavid, MacKinnon, Matthews, etc. all seem to share the same social awkwardness and inability to engage and express themselves like normal adults. They seem stunted socially. I see a lot of MacKinnon interviews and he always looks nervous or like he doesn't know enough words to say anything meaningful. It reminds me of Chris Farley's old talk show on SNL where he nervously rocks, and sweats, and fumbles through stupid questions. There's just such a lack of personality in the NHL's best players, and I'm not asking for PK Subban in stupid outfits, desperately seeking attention. |
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Post by RichHillOntario on Mar 8, 2024 15:13:29 GMT
When smoking and drinking started being frowned upon by the NHL and players started taking fitness too seriously, player personalities stifled quickly. It's Zdeno's fault then, ! Nobody's gonna tell him. |
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Post by MrHulot on Mar 10, 2024 5:02:18 GMT
Definitely didn't even mind Jeremy Roenick sticking his foot in his mouth at times. NHL players are bland and boring these days. There is definitely a blandness, especially in interviews, but we can probably attribute that to teams and agents coaching the hell out of these guys to say the right thing (and post the right things) in this climate of sensitivity, political correctness, and Twitter mob justice. I get that, even if it makes things boring. The star players today seem to have even bigger problems than that though, and I wonder if it relates to the grooming process of a superstar hockey prospect, as a kid. Like not having normal social interactions growing up, and spending your childhood in hockey rinks instead doing the things other kids do. McDavid, MacKinnon, Matthews, etc. all seem to share the same social awkwardness and inability to engage and express themselves like normal adults. They seem stunted socially. I see a lot of MacKinnon interviews and he always looks nervous or like he doesn't know enough words to say anything meaningful. It reminds me of Chris Farley's old talk show on SNL where he nervously rocks, and sweats, and fumbles through stupid questions. There's just such a lack of personality in the NHL's best players, and I'm not asking for PK Subban in stupid outfits, desperately seeking attention. |
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Post by MrHulot on Mar 10, 2024 6:18:23 GMT
Definitely didn't even mind Jeremy Roenick sticking his foot in his mouth at times. NHL players are bland and boring these days. There is definitely a blandness, especially in interviews, but we can probably attribute that to teams and agents coaching the hell out of these guys to say the right thing (and post the right things) in this climate of sensitivity, political correctness, and Twitter mob justice. I get that, even if it makes things boring. The star players today seem to have even bigger problems than that though, and I wonder if it relates to the grooming process of a superstar hockey prospect, as a kid. Like not having normal social interactions growing up, and spending your childhood in hockey rinks instead doing the things other kids do. McDavid, MacKinnon, Matthews, etc. all seem to share the same social awkwardness and inability to engage and express themselves like normal adults. They seem stunted socially. I see a lot of MacKinnon interviews and he always looks nervous or like he doesn't know enough words to say anything meaningful. It reminds me of Chris Farley's old talk show on SNL where he nervously rocks, and sweats, and fumbles through stupid questions. There's just such a lack of personality in the NHL's best players, and I'm not asking for PK Subban in stupid outfits, desperately seeking attention. |
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Post by bookboy007 on Mar 10, 2024 17:38:53 GMT
There is definitely a blandness, especially in interviews, but we can probably attribute that to teams and agents coaching the hell out of these guys to say the right thing (and post the right things) in this climate of sensitivity, political correctness, and Twitter mob justice. I get that, even if it makes things boring. The star players today seem to have even bigger problems than that though, and I wonder if it relates to the grooming process of a superstar hockey prospect, as a kid. Like not having normal social interactions growing up, and spending your childhood in hockey rinks instead doing the things other kids do. McDavid, MacKinnon, Matthews, etc. all seem to share the same social awkwardness and inability to engage and express themselves like normal adults. They seem stunted socially. I see a lot of MacKinnon interviews and he always looks nervous or like he doesn't know enough words to say anything meaningful. It reminds me of Chris Farley's old talk show on SNL where he nervously rocks, and sweats, and fumbles through stupid questions. There's just such a lack of personality in the NHL's best players, and I'm not asking for PK Subban in stupid outfits, desperately seeking attention. I would love to know more about how much media relations for the teams play a role in these fatuous interviews. My sense is that they lat out ground rules that you fail to follow at your peril. But there's also a philosophy around questions and only asking things that are short and simple so the answer doesn't require a lot of framing in tomorrow's column. What did you see out there? A hockey game. What do you need to do in the third to make sure this goes your way? Score more goals. |
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Post by sandogbrewin on Mar 10, 2024 19:20:11 GMT
I'll throw this out there. As far as the Canadian superstars they seem more comfortable when interviewed by news outlets from Canada. I think I might point out some of the obnoxious US interviewers and what they ask compared to more seasoned hockey reporters up north and if that has an impact.
I think Marchand has gotten more used to it. He's way looser than in his earlier days. Maybe cause of age. But Crosby and Messier are still stiff as a board.
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