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Post by kelvana33 on Nov 30, 2021 17:07:02 GMT
So- who is available that the B's could bring in that's close to the 3.6 of Jake Debust? I'm just spitballing, so don't get your panties in a twist. Looking at players who are close to age, can play C/LW & salary. Also, I'm not necessarily going for a one to one swap either. Maybe the other team will have to add a little more, or maybe the B's will have to add a little more. I'm also looking at forwards only. Connor Brown- 10 pts in 15 games, Kaspri K- 14pts in 21 games, Jesper Bratt- 17pts in 19 games Pavel Zacha- 12pts in 19 games Tomas Hertl- 13 pts in 21 games, the Sharks maybe willing since he's UFA, but he'd be a hellva 2C that could accommodate Hall nicely- HEY I'm allowed to dream Lawson Crouse- 10 pts in 22 games 6' 4" 215? Yep Andre Burakovsky- 14pts in 17 games- Just scores goals- need him Brandon Saad- 11 pts in 17 games 8 goals Rickard Rakell- 8pts in 12 games, been on the block since last season Victor Arvidsson- 8 pts in 13 games Adrian Kempe- 12 pts in 20 games Thoughts? I like a lot of those guys and would be fuggin shocked if that happened. Most likely it'll be for another fourth line guy who makes zero difference in the line up. Anybody wanna bet? What if San Jose calls, they want DeBrusk for Evander Kane and will eat a good portion of the salary? Kane has his issues, but he can play.
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Post by bookboy007 on Nov 30, 2021 17:17:24 GMT
Recency bias. He's been a piece of shit for fewer than 60 games, and a solid young second line wing for over 200. Kessel's a great comparable in some ways. No one thought Toronto would be able to move him with the big contract Burke gave him, but the trade they made to move him to Pittsburgh wasn't terrible, and teams looking at that comparison will like the result for the Pens. As for being grateful, he got paid less than Wagner for scoring 27 goals a few years ago. Call it even for the last 60 games. Recency bias? What? That's what the whole world of sports is, I'm sure the Bruins could sign Orr, Wayne or pull Cam out of the front office, but my recency bias tells me that they haven't actually gotten better as they become senior citizens. What have you done for me lately? And yah, Jake isn't collecting retirement checks quite yet, but we've seen plenty a plenty a plenty young guys whose careers plummeted into nothing Compare apples to apples not apples to defibrillators. I'm talking about a player who, as recently as 60 games ago, was producing 3 points every 5 games playing 16:10 or less a night for over 200 games to start his career. To put that in perspective, there are 131 players scoring at 0.59 points/game or better (min 10 games) this season. Only 7 or 8 (quick count) are doing it playing 16:00 or less on average as Jake has done for his whole career. Two of them are in Toronto in Bunting and Kerfoot feeding off their top guys. Extend that over the last three years, and it's 6 players of 113. I wrote at the beginning of the year that a divorce from JDB was inevitable and that we are likely going to hate him more after the deal because he's likely to score more regularly given more of a chance. This is why. "Secondary scorers" have to be able to generate points in secondary TOI. You can't bring in a bad team's leading scorer playing 20 min a night, give him 15:45 and 30s of PPTOI and expect the same results. They might as well get divorced sooner than later, but I hope they do a better job of evaluating exactly what DeBrusk is as an asset that we do around here.
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Post by islamorada on Nov 30, 2021 17:25:19 GMT
I think there is significant under valuing of DeBrusk on this forum for various reasons. A 25 year old 27 goal scorer will always draw interest, his 3rd line role and feud with coach a good explanation for reduced production. His name will also increase his value a bit, especially in Canada. This won’t be a salary dump, there will be teams willing to offer something respectable. The pressing need is a top-3 C, but Bruce’s D shuffling (and rumours) would indicate Boston wants a top-4 D more. If they’re bringing in a D, one should go out, since they would have to wave one anyway. A 2-for-2 deal gets more interesting. I go back to a deal I’ve wanted since summer, Jake and Grizz for something. I think western teams make the most sense, especially the Canadians (country, not habs). Edmonton is always rumoured. Calgary’s Monahan is known to be in play, but maybe for good reason. Vancouver wants to dump salary. Arizona could take it on, so could Seattle. Bo Horvat seems to be available given Van’s surplus C’s and limited cap space. Seattle remains an interesting target to me. We’d like a C, but dealing Jake for a RW would allow Follingo to slot in nice on L. Maybe Jake and Grizz for Eberle and Fleury? Get a better lineup fit, free a bit of cap space and try to land a C elsewhere. So yeah, Debrusk has value you say. How long do you put up with his demands for a trade? TDL? Horvat is a good target, the present is the better as the TDL will have some desperate teams. Benning is not long on his job, neither is Green, so make a move Donny. Grizz and Debrusk contracts will scare off Vancouver, something will have to come back to Boston... Myers, hahaha. BTW Eberle and Fleury would be excellent. Seattle may bite. Debrusk and Grizz though woud have to be upgraded to make the trade happen... Lysell and or a 1st. As a fan, I don't mind seeing Butch doing some work with Studs and Steen and get a pick for Debrusk. I'd rather the trade. Oh well, watching and waiting for the TDL is probably the outcome of all these machinations.
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Post by islamorada on Nov 30, 2021 17:28:22 GMT
I like a lot of those guys and would be fuggin shocked if that happened. Most likely it'll be for another fourth line guy who makes zero difference in the line up. Anybody wanna bet? What if San Jose calls, they want DeBrusk for Evander Kane and will eat a good portion of the salary? Kane has his issues, but he can play. San Jose eating half his salary, and Boston sending him to Providence next year. Moore's and Haula's contracts to San Jose?
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Post by bookboy007 on Nov 30, 2021 17:34:58 GMT
Maybe put Pasta with Hall and Bergeron and see if this actually will kick-start both 88 and 71....probably not, but it would be fun to watch. I'd rather see them put Hall with pasta and Bergy, but that's just me... Yeah, I think both for competitive reasons (i.e. get the win) and long term benefits (i.e. get Hall to heat up), there's a good argument to put Hall there instead of JDB. But in all honesty, what has HE done to deserve it? Hall has 1 more point 5v5 than DeBrusk, and he's played one more game. The ApHallogists will say Oh, well, his centre isn't good enough; fucking DeBrusk has been handcuffed to Haula since training camp. He has twice as many points as his C; how many wings in the NHL have twice as many points as their C (min. 5 points)? The C Hall has been saddled with has one more point than Hall, two more at ES. Maybe he's not the problem? If you're putting Hall there, it's for the same reason you might put DeBrusk there - to take a guy who is underperforming and put him in a sweet spot that reminds him what success feels like. And you're choosing Hall over DeBrusk on two things: reputation (he flashes that shiny Hart Trophy at you) and the fact that you have him under contract for four more years and don't want to be regretting that in the first season.
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Post by bookboy007 on Nov 30, 2021 17:43:00 GMT
I like a lot of those guys and would be fuggin shocked if that happened. Most likely it'll be for another fourth line guy who makes zero difference in the line up. Anybody wanna bet? What if San Jose calls, they want DeBrusk for Evander Kane and will eat a good portion of the salary? Kane has his issues, but he can play. My sense is that he's in the minors because the players in the Sharts dressing room didn't want him to come back. And the team decided it was less risk to put him through waivers than to bring him back with all the internal conflict that might cause. Do you want that? Is it worth the production? He's also a LW, so you'd have the same problem you have with JDB - he's either playing 14 min a night on the third line, or Taylor Hall is. Last year in SJ, he played 20+ a night to get to 49 points in 56 games. That won't happen in the situation they have in Boston. So no. The risk is too high and the likely reward of putting him at 3LW too low. Even if the Sharts were willing to eat half his salary for all 4 years. The writing is on the wall for the Sharts and for Kane. Either the Sharts give someone a first round pick and eat half his salary to take him, or they will buy him out next summer and the only way he gets back in the league is if someone decides to give him a PTO chance. After he gets his buyout cheque and pays of his gambling debts, he'll be borrowing butts from Joe Murphy. Sad.
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Post by bookboy007 on Nov 30, 2021 17:51:04 GMT
I think there is significant under valuing of DeBrusk on this forum for various reasons. A 25 year old 27 goal scorer will always draw interest, his 3rd line role and feud with coach a good explanation for reduced production. His name will also increase his value a bit, especially in Canada. This won’t be a salary dump, there will be teams willing to offer something respectable. The pressing need is a top-3 C, but Bruce’s D shuffling (and rumours) would indicate Boston wants a top-4 D more. If they’re bringing in a D, one should go out, since they would have to wave one anyway. A 2-for-2 deal gets more interesting. I go back to a deal I’ve wanted since summer, Jake and Grizz for something. I think western teams make the most sense, especially the Canadians (country, not habs). Edmonton is always rumoured. Calgary’s Monahan is known to be in play, but maybe for good reason. Vancouver wants to dump salary. Arizona could take it on, so could Seattle. Bo Horvat seems to be available given Van’s surplus C’s and limited cap space. Seattle remains an interesting target to me. We’d like a C, but dealing Jake for a RW would allow Follingo to slot in nice on L. Maybe Jake and Grizz for Eberle and Fleury? Get a better lineup fit, free a bit of cap space and try to land a C elsewhere. So yeah, Debrusk has value you say. How long do you put up with his demands for a trade? TDL? Horvat is a good target, the present is the better as the TDL will have some desperate teams. Benning is not long on his job, neither is Green, so make a move Donny. Grizz and Debrusk contracts will scare off Vancouver, something will have to come back to Boston... Myers, hahaha. BTW Eberle and Fleury would be excellent. Seattle may bite. Debrusk and Grizz though woud have to be upgraded to make the trade happen... Lysell and or a 1st. As a fan, I don't mind seeing Butch doing some work with Studs and Steen and get a pick for Debrusk. I'd rather the trade. Oh well, watching and waiting for the TDL is probably the outcome of all these machinations. I think they'll move reasonably quickly because it does no one any good to wait unless there's just no market for him. Whether or not Horvat is a good target from Boston's perspective doesn't mean the conversation with Vancouver or with anyone can be pushed. If you're the team that wants to move quickly, then time is one of the things that factors against you, like it's part of the return. Players ask for trades and then go out and play for the teams they want to leave. Eichel did it before the injury conflict with the Sabres. Apparently Tarasenko did it, but now he's all good and doesn't want to leave. I don't get the impression that DeBrusk has been passive-aggressively leaving Big Mac boxes all over the dressing room trying to annoy them into moving him. I think he's been a buzzkill, sulking and whining about the haters, but he's not disruptive like Kane. I think we hear something like this from both sides: Jake is still a member of the Boston Bruins, and he's a professional. We expect that Jake will do his best to help this team win games while we explore whether there's an opportunity for a move that works better for Jake and for the Boston Bruins. That's all there is to say on this matter, and we won't have any updates unless a move is made.
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Post by bookboy007 on Nov 30, 2021 17:52:15 GMT
So in a plot twist the Bruins need DeBrusk to put down the Wendy's double stack and play tonight with Marchand and Blidh both out tonight. Fuck him! I'd bring up Studs & Steen. Let Haula & Jake rot in peanut heaven! No to belabour the point, but I would be happy if Haula has played his last game as a Bruin.
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Post by seobrien on Nov 30, 2021 18:17:56 GMT
Fuck him! I'd bring up Studs & Steen. Let Haula & Jake rot in peanut heaven! No to belabour the point, but I would be happy if Haula has played his last game as a Bruin.
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Post by pucman on Nov 30, 2021 18:52:02 GMT
Love Miller from Vancouver but don’t see that happening without another prospect like Studnicka. I’d settle for Kassien putting him with Foligno and Haula making up a pretty tough experienced 3rd line
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Post by mdsizzle on Nov 30, 2021 19:20:28 GMT
Listen Dan, we've all had it with your cryptic messages. Stop beating around the bush and just say what's really on your mind. There... Somebody had to say it....
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Post by dannycater on Nov 30, 2021 19:21:52 GMT
Fuck him! I'd bring up Studs & Steen. Let Haula & Jake rot in peanut heaven! No to belabour the point, but I would be happy if Haula has played his last game as a Bruin. Yes, Haula is the root of all B's problems...Try another Ha...with an l in his name, how bout his lack of impact, lack of production, lack of toughness.
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Post by mdsizzle on Nov 30, 2021 19:22:07 GMT
I like a lot of those guys and would be fuggin shocked if that happened. Most likely it'll be for another fourth line guy who makes zero difference in the line up. Anybody wanna bet? What if San Jose calls, they want DeBrusk for Evander Kane and will eat a good portion of the salary? Kane has his issues, but he can play. Part of my mind thought of that too... Talk about locker room cancer though... Maybe if we let Butchy go and bring in Bellichek? Worked for randy moss.
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Post by mdsizzle on Nov 30, 2021 19:24:11 GMT
I'd rather see them put Hall with pasta and Bergy, but that's just me... Yeah, I think both for competitive reasons (i.e. get the win) and long term benefits (i.e. get Hall to heat up), there's a good argument to put Hall there instead of JDB. But in all honesty, what has HE done to deserve it? Hall has 1 more point 5v5 than DeBrusk, and he's played one more game. The ApHallogists will say Oh, well, his centre isn't good enough; fucking DeBrusk has been handcuffed to Haula since training camp. He has twice as many points as his C; how many wings in the NHL have twice as many points as their C (min. 5 points)? The C Hall has been saddled with has one more point than Hall, two more at ES. Maybe he's not the problem? If you're putting Hall there, it's for the same reason you might put DeBrusk there - to take a guy who is underperforming and put him in a sweet spot that reminds him what success feels like. And you're choosing Hall over DeBrusk on two things: reputation (he flashes that shiny Hart Trophy at you) and the fact that you have him under contract for four more years and don't want to be regretting that in the first season. He hasn't requested a trade... There are other reasons, but that one seems glaring to me.
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Post by mdsizzle on Nov 30, 2021 19:27:04 GMT
Love Miller from Vancouver but don’t see that happening without another prospect like Studnicka. I’d settle for Kassien putting him with Foligno and Haula making up a pretty tough experienced 3rd line Kassian, Foligno and Haula... I can here the sesame st gong going off in my head... Oooone of these guys is not like the ooother. Ooone of these guys is a polar fucking ooooposite.
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Post by seobrien on Nov 30, 2021 19:31:53 GMT
Listen Dan, we've all had it with your cryptic messages. Stop beating around the bush and just say what's really on your mind. There... Somebody had to say it.... I don't think he can hear you. Try all caps.
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Post by The OC on Nov 30, 2021 19:43:40 GMT
Tarasenko still wants out, fwiw.
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Post by bookboy007 on Nov 30, 2021 19:45:09 GMT
No to belabour the point, but I would be happy if Haula has played his last game as a Bruin. Yes, Haula is the root of all B's problems...Try another Ha...with an l in his name, how bout his lack of impact, lack of production, lack of toughness. I'm the last guy you need to tell to notice what's wrong with Taylor (Swift) Hall; I'm the guy who pointed out that he has 1 more point 5v5 than the much maligned JDB. But that's still twice as many as Haula, and he has at least earned praise from Cassidy for hustling back to break up plays. I can think of a few goals where I thought he could have played them better defensively, but it seems like every goal scored against the Bs when Haula is on can be directly attributed to something stupid that he did. If we're grading these two players on a curve, I probably give Haula 2 or a 3 based on his faceoff work and actually having 3 points, but then I'd have to give Hall like a 17 out of 10 to accurately reflect the distance between the two...and Bergeron and Marchand would have to be 40? 43?
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Post by bookboy007 on Nov 30, 2021 19:49:15 GMT
Yeah, I think both for competitive reasons (i.e. get the win) and long term benefits (i.e. get Hall to heat up), there's a good argument to put Hall there instead of JDB. But in all honesty, what has HE done to deserve it? Hall has 1 more point 5v5 than DeBrusk, and he's played one more game. The ApHallogists will say Oh, well, his centre isn't good enough; fucking DeBrusk has been handcuffed to Haula since training camp. He has twice as many points as his C; how many wings in the NHL have twice as many points as their C (min. 5 points)? The C Hall has been saddled with has one more point than Hall, two more at ES. Maybe he's not the problem? If you're putting Hall there, it's for the same reason you might put DeBrusk there - to take a guy who is underperforming and put him in a sweet spot that reminds him what success feels like. And you're choosing Hall over DeBrusk on two things: reputation (he flashes that shiny Hart Trophy at you) and the fact that you have him under contract for four more years and don't want to be regretting that in the first season. He hasn't requested a trade... There are other reasons, but that one seems glaring to me. Right, but...so what? What's better for the team? This isn't about giving either of them a cookie for good behaviour. You have two disappointing RWs one goal apart at 5v5. How do you choose which one gets to go to the chocolate factory? Good rationale for both, I think. You want to increase the value of an asset you need to move, so put him in a position to shine. You also want to get a guy who is likely to be with you for a long time going, so you put him with your best players to challenge him to improve his effort. Both are decent rationales, and frankly, I'd do both over the next three games. Probably start Jake there for the next two, and flip Hall up if the game isn't going the Bruins' way. Put Hall there for the Tbags unless DeBrusk has 5-3-8 and +9 in the two games.
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Post by nitelite on Nov 30, 2021 19:54:24 GMT
HAHAHAHA! I guess you could try it, but I wouldn't do that until the T-Bay game. Let's see what he does against a high caliber team playing 1st line minutes. Why? That seems counter-productive to just throw him in against the two time champions and expect him to do or die. The objective is to raise the value of the asset for trade, not shove down his throat that you don't like him. Last time the Bruins played Detroit, the steamrolled them and it was the top line that led the way. Put DeBrusk there because Marchand is out. If he sulks his way through the first period and the Bruins aren't playing well, down he goes and Hall moves up. Easy to do in game. Sorry book, but I don't believe in rewarding players like that. If the B's coach (whomever they have tonight since Butch is in C19P) puts Jake with Bergy & Pasta? I'd be asking. "What the fuck did we do to deserve playing with this lazy POS! Whatever, we did we're sorry! Please NO!" I look at it that if we put him in against the Bolts & show something against those guys. It would go a lot further than doing well against Detroit. No GM is going to be raising an eyebrow if he plays great against the Wings.
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Post by mdsizzle on Nov 30, 2021 20:01:16 GMT
He hasn't requested a trade... There are other reasons, but that one seems glaring to me. Right, but...so what? What's better for the team? This isn't about giving either of them a cookie for good behaviour. You have two disappointing RWs one goal apart at 5v5. How do you choose which one gets to go to the chocolate factory? Good rationale for both, I think. You want to increase the value of an asset you need to move, so put him in a position to shine. You also want to get a guy who is likely to be with you for a long time going, so you put him with your best players to challenge him to improve his effort. Both are decent rationales, and frankly, I'd do both over the next three games. Probably start Jake there for the next two, and flip Hall up if the game isn't going the Bruins' way. Put Hall there for the Tbags unless DeBrusk has 5-3-8 and +9 in the two games. And If he gets injured? His value goes from shit to supershit. Also, honestly, Jake adds zero to make the team better. I can't see how removing a floating shitburger from the lineup and letting literally anyone else have more ice time is a bad thing. Keeping popcorn boy on floor 9 benefits the TEAM. The team needs somebody to step up and it sure as shit isn't jakeypoo... He's made that quite clear.
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Post by nitelite on Nov 30, 2021 20:02:31 GMT
Yeah, I think both for competitive reasons (i.e. get the win) and long term benefits (i.e. get Hall to heat up), there's a good argument to put Hall there instead of JDB. But in all honesty, what has HE done to deserve it? Hall has 1 more point 5v5 than DeBrusk, and he's played one more game. The ApHallogists will say Oh, well, his centre isn't good enough; fucking DeBrusk has been handcuffed to Haula since training camp. He has twice as many points as his C; how many wings in the NHL have twice as many points as their C (min. 5 points)? The C Hall has been saddled with has one more point than Hall, two more at ES. Maybe he's not the problem? If you're putting Hall there, it's for the same reason you might put DeBrusk there - to take a guy who is underperforming and put him in a sweet spot that reminds him what success feels like. And you're choosing Hall over DeBrusk on two things: reputation (he flashes that shiny Hart Trophy at you) and the fact that you have him under contract for four more years and don't want to be regretting that in the first season. He hasn't requested a trade... There are other reasons, but that one seems glaring to me. nesn.com/2021/11/jake-debrusk-did-request-trade-from-bruins-cam-neely-confirms/
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Post by thanx4memORRies on Nov 30, 2021 21:00:11 GMT
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Post by mdsizzle on Nov 30, 2021 21:11:36 GMT
Just heard that, wow! More breaking news... Eight teams have not been paying attention!
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Post by badhabitude on Nov 30, 2021 21:14:09 GMT
I will say it now.
Jake goes out and lights the lamp for somebody else, just about a certainty when putting a new colored sweater on.
Then I predict the light will dim.
No matter how it plays out, this isn't a player that I believe is good for this team - AND - he is not a player I enjoy watching.
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