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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2022 15:51:50 GMT
Its goal post moving cherry picking. Its the full season. And most definitely records against playoff teams cant be thrown for convenience. My take on it, yah, you're right, they don't want to blow up the young goaltender and burn him out. Is that a good idea or not I don't know, they got gun shy after Blane Lacher and decided to go easy on the young goaltenders from there on it, did it work? I think Suban and Hannu Toivenen and think maybe it doesn't matter at all. Another aspect of this is just perception, despite the mistakes Swayman can look better, Ullmark, to spite even the numbers tends not to look as good - take it a step further to make the point, the goaler who just catches the puck or the one that gives that big flourish after catching the puck. People tend to like the big flourish. Tim Thomas Syndrome. Wild, dramatic unnecessary hotdog gymnastics. Some people are impressed by it; some are turned off by it. But like Thomas, crazy rebounds, open nets and brutally bad goals come with that package. Unlike Thomas, Linus hasnt found the occasional groove where he can carry a team. They still win despite him. Sometimes. |
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Post by stevegm on Feb 21, 2022 15:53:57 GMT
so did he. as he did dougie hamilton, til he became garbage, the day he was traded. we should be getting very acclimated to his "dreams", as they're the basis of most everything he posts. Whoever this ignored poster is, they seem to be obsessed with me. Is Jenny back?!? you're quite enamored with yourself. |
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Post by fifthline on Feb 21, 2022 16:13:05 GMT
Linus had 3 games a while back in which he looked stout; other than that he seems to fall over a lot when there’s a lot of mucking in and around his crease. Swayman is pretty stout most of the time. Both have rebound control issues. Linus also has that high glove side weakness
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Post by nitelite on Feb 21, 2022 18:31:25 GMT
I think the debate is over! Ullmark is a backup goalie & he's not even that good at that!
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Post by sandogbrewin on Feb 21, 2022 18:34:53 GMT
Linus had 3 games a while back in which he looked stout; other than that he seems to fall over a lot when there’s a lot of mucking in and around his crease. Swayman is pretty stout most of the time. Both have rebound control issues. Linus also has that high glove side weakness Just watching a totally different goalie compared to the one I saw in Buffalo last season. Its crazy what happens to some UFAs when they get to the Bruins. |
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Post by nitelite on Feb 21, 2022 18:43:52 GMT
My take on it, yah, you're right, they don't want to blow up the young goaltender and burn him out. Is that a good idea or not I don't know, they got gun shy after Blane Lacher and decided to go easy on the young goaltenders from there on it, did it work? I think Suban and Hannu Toivenen and think maybe it doesn't matter at all. Another aspect of this is just perception, despite the mistakes Swayman can look better, Ullmark, to spite even the numbers tends not to look as good - take it a step further to make the point, the goaler who just catches the puck or the one that gives that big flourish after catching the puck. People tend to like the big flourish. Tim Thomas Syndrome. Wild, dramatic unnecessary hotdog gymnastics. Some people are impressed by it; some are turned off by it. But like Thomas, crazy rebounds, open nets and brutally bad goals come with that package. Unlike Thomas, Linus hasnt found the occasional groove where he can carry a team. They still win despite him. Sometimes. WOW sox, you always find a way to hate Timmy eh! Throw shade any way possible! The guy put together the 2nd greatest start to finish season in the games history ffs. Still owns 5 playoff records & 4 Bruin records & because he made you look foolish, because you kept saying he was garbage you can't let that go. If you wanted to talk about his character & how he was selfish & handcuffed the Bruins by not playing his final year of the deal. That I could understand, but to talk about his play & compare him to a complete dud is beyond foolish! |
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Post by nitelite on Feb 21, 2022 18:44:39 GMT
Linus had 3 games a while back in which he looked stout; other than that he seems to fall over a lot when there’s a lot of mucking in and around his crease. Swayman is pretty stout most of the time. Both have rebound control issues. Linus also has that high glove side weakness ts crazy what happens to some UFAs when they get to the Bruins. You're not the only one! |
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Post by bookboy007 on Feb 21, 2022 19:41:33 GMT
I know there's a ton of people that haven't watched the Sens much this season. If Matt Murray would've started the season on time. The B's would've had another team breathing down their necks. They've drafted well & their panning out & they have another stud that could be playing in the NHL right now in Jake Sanderson. Chabot won't be the stud on that team for long. Yes, technically the Sens aren't a playoff team, but they could've very easily been one. They're a 100 miles ahead of Buffalo & they're about a 1000 miles ahead the Bruins as far as prospects go. Now will Melnyk be willing to pay these players after year 3? That's the only thing that's gonna stop the Sens from maturing. Anyway in the 2 games Sway played against them, he easily made 6 saves that Ullmark wouldn't have the ability to get there. Unconfirmed, but likely Sway is slated for tomorrow according to Daily Faceoff. I think you're drinking the koolaid, nite. Murray has been excellent since being sent to the A - basic goalie stats may not help you get a real handle on a goalie, but it's hard to go 93.2% and 2.38 on a team like Ottawa if you're not doing your job. That's what Murray's been over his last 11 starts...and they're still only 5-4-2 in those games. Partly because their D is for shit. The D now and in the future is really interesting. Sanderson does look like a good one, and they're salivating over having both him and Chabot anchoring the blueline. The real question, though, is...then what? It's their version of McAvoy, Carlo and pray for rain (not saying Carlo is on par with the other three...). They stumbled onto KHL player Artem Zub, and the 25 yr old has been making a living as a reasonable pair with Chabot, but just like Filip Kuba got rich off of chemistry with Karlsson back in the day, it's not clear that Zub is as good as he's looked surrounded by the rest of this D. Zaitsev is the whipping boy who lost that spot next to Chabot and who takes the blame for anything Chabot does wrong. Josh Brown is an AHL defenseman who is only there because the rest of tehm as so small and soft. Nick Holden gets the third-most TOI. They tried to make DelZotto work, and ex-Shab Mete. But what's really interesting is that from the moment they got the idea they wouldn't be able to keep Karlsson, they've been chasing D with offensive credentials - Lassi Thomson, Erik Brannstrom, Jacob Bernard-Docker, Sanderson and a few guys less prominent. JBD and Sanderson are 5th overall and 26th overall picks, Brannstrom was a mid first rounder and the main piece they got for Mark Stone (they got a second rounder, too...) and Thomson was their 19th overall. So if Chabot and Sanderson are locks, Zub seems to have found a home, now you're looking at JBD, Thomson and Brannstrom looking to sort out in the bottom three, and none of them is really a PK or shutdown type D. Brannstrom gets tagged as odd man out most often because of his size at 5'10 and 185, but Thomson and JBD are only 6' and 190. Sanderson's still a bit of a beanpole - under 190 on hockeydb, but I'm pretty sure he's added about 10lbs of muscle, but 6'2" and 200 isn't really "size" either. And of that entire group, the only guy whose resume starts with defensive prowess is Zub. There's a lot of work to do there. They're also missing two of their leading scorers - 2/3 of the top line - in Batherson and Norris, and Shane Pinto started the year as the 2C before getting hurt. Batherson was scoring over a point/game for the first time in his career when he went down, and Norris still leads the team in goals despite having played 10 fewer games than second place Tkachuk. That line is the Daycare Line because Norris is the old man at 23. Good players and they'll be Ottawa's top line for a while because I don't see anyone in their system likely to displace any of them. That's good for them, but maybe bad for the team because Norris and Tkachuk have been more like .70 points/game guys, and that might not be enough production to be more than a first/second round team at best. Their secondary scoring starts with Tim Stutzle, who has sometimes played better than his numbers look, but who is a ways from being a finished product. Beyond that, though? Connor Brown is playing the most minutes at F. Tyler Ennis is a regular. Nick Paul gets a lot of support from the coach, but even the Sens aren't going to give him $10M/4 years when his contract ends this year. In other words, they are very thin up front. And that's a big reason why I don't agree on your draft comment. They've "hit" it seems with Stutzle at 3, Sanderson at 5, Tkachuk at 4; Pinto is intriguing as a very high second rounder, and I liked what I saw of Ridley Grieg in the preseason - he seems like a greasy s.o.b. and he's put up some great numbers in the W - only Logan Stankoven has a better points/game. But if you go back to 2015, they got Chabot, but Colin White looks like he was a flash in the pan as injuries and inconsistency, combined with the pressure of signing a bigger contract, seem to have stalled his career. Their top 2 picks in 2016 have been dumped uncermoniously (Brown and Dahlen) though Dahlen is resurrecting his career in SJ. Batherson was a 4th round HR in 2017, which is good because Bowers (28) hasn't panned out and Formenton is one of those blazing skaters with zero finesse. Not sure he'd be in the NHL on a better team; likely a Paille. Their second rounder in 2018, Tychonick, isn't really a prospect any more. Thomson is still on the cusp of regular duty (competing against Nick Holden for TOI and losing), Pinto can't stay healthy, and while they think Sogaard is the goalie of the future, he's gone backward in Belleville a bit. So outside of the top 10 picks and a homer with Batherson, I don't know that they've been real draft kings. Even if they have, with the exception of hte guys who were injured, you've seen what they have already in Ottawa. Sanderson's the only guy who's coming. For those who like to rip the Bruins drafting as "think they're the smartest...", the skeptics on Ottawa look at the way they've tried to draft size in the last few drafts with a similar refrain. Tyler Boucher at 10 because he's a big body? Lysell's teammate Ostapchuk at 39 for similar reasons? 6'4 209 Ben Roger at 49. Overager Sokolov who had good junior numbers and tips the scales at 222. Same story with Tyler Kleven. A lot of these guys have decent numbers in junior/college, but their primary qualification is size. Cole Sillinger went one pick after Boucher last year and he's gone 7-9-16 in Columbus as a rook; he's also not small - over the 200lb mark. I don't think Ottawa is a very strong organization, though they have tried to start changing that. Melnyk's shittiness will be felt less in signing or not signing the good players they have - I think he gets that you can't keep floating turds out there for people and expect tehm to buy tickets - so much as not seeing the value of investing in his back office. They look a lot better now than they did after the Karlsson and Stone trades, but they really haven't recovered from a string of stupid that went Brassard for Zibanejad AND a pick; Stone for Brannstrom; Turris, Hammond, Bowers AND the pick that became Bowen Byrum for Duchene, then Duchene basically for a first round pick, and Karlsson for futures (though Norris and Sanderson will rescue that one, it seems). PS. Hard to compare any team to Buffalo. How do you handicap the Sabres given that they've drafted 8th or higher for 8 straight years and first overall twice? It seems like anything other than a murderers row of talent is a fail. Rienhart, Eichel, Dahlin and Power, though, is at least as good as the Stutzle, Tkachuk and Sanderson run, and while Mittelstadt, Nylander and Ristolainen didn't pan out as 8th overall talent, Cozens will be a good one, and do not sleep on former Ottawa junior star Jack Quinn. Lots of people looking to give love to Minnesota and Marco Rossi - Quinn has quietly put up 44 points in his first 39 AHL games and is 1-1-2 in two NHL starts. He was awesome in Junior. |
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Post by nitelite on Feb 21, 2022 20:22:50 GMT
I disagree bb. When I see the Sens play & it's their best draft picks that's leading the way. I see nothing remotely close on the B's excluding Charlie Mc. that is close. Yea, Murray's winning record may not reflect his play, but in those 5 wins he was a huge factor in getting them. So, if he had his A game earlier in the season he certainly could've help get them more. Which would've been more pressure against the B's.
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Post by bookboy007 on Feb 21, 2022 21:30:45 GMT
I disagree bb. When I see the Sens play & it's their best draft picks that's leading the way. I see nothing remotely close on the B's excluding Charlie Mc. that is close. Yea, Murray's winning record may not reflect his play, but in those 5 wins he was a huge factor in getting them. So, if he had his A game earlier in the season he certainly could've help get them more. Which would've been more pressure against the B's. But it's their best picks in the top 5, plus Chabot. I mean, it's hardly comparable over the last five years, or say 2015-2020. In that time, the Senators made 10 first round picks, of which 3 were top 5 picks and three were in the 'teens. They also made 10 second round picks - so a total of 20 picks where the odds are decent that you'll get a player of some kind, and a few where you expect to get future stars. The Bruins, in that same time, made just 7 first round picks and 7 second rounders. None of the Bruins picks were top 10 let alone top 5. 5 were in the 'teens, and two in the 20s (Freddy and Beecher). Both teams have one post-second-round hit - Sway for Boston, Batherson for the Senators. If you take those top 5 picks out of the equation, and the guys like Norris that they traded for the teams' lists of 1st and 2nds is (bold=in the NHL today): Ottawa: Grieg, Pinto, Sogaard, JBD, Tychonick, Bowers, Formenton, Brown, Dahlen, Chabot, White, Gagne, Chlapik. Boston: Lohrei, Beecher, Andersson, Vowels, Studnicka, McAvoy, Frederic, Lindgren, Zboril, DeBrusk, Senyshyn, Carlo, JFK, Lauzon. Pair those guys off and just like the WJHC, McAvoy>Chabot. DeBrusk>White (the stats show it...), Formenton>Frederic, Lauzon>JBD, Brown/Studnicka (neither has played 50 games, Studnicka's a year younger), Lindgren>Pinto (if Pinto stays healthy that may change, but Lindgren is the top +/- D on the Rangers playing over 20min a night), Vowels>Dahlen. That leaves you with two additional Bruin picks who are now NHL players who haven't been paired off - Carlo and Lauzon. Carlo's second on the Bs in TOI by a D; Lauzon is a third pairing regular in Seattle. Granted that Senyshyn is basically a bust, Beecher is a long shot to be anything more than what Formenton and Frederic are, and Lohrei is very much TBD, but Gagne and Chlapik are completely out of the game. Bowers has 5 points and is -5 in the AHL this year. Tychonick is a 5th year NCAA player who transferred to get ice time. Maybe Pinto and White can both come back and find their games with better talent around them; I don't think so on White's side. But taking those three top 5 picks out of the equation, it's really hard to say the Senators did anything better vis a vis the draft except maybe sucking really hard to get better picks (and fleecing the Sharts the way the Avs fleeced them - Karma). The Bruins are led by their best draft picks; it's just they were picked when Pangea was still a continent. But Pastrnak doesn't go back that far, and there are a lot of draft picks on the roster - BLIH is all picks, Freddy, DeBrusk, Studnicka all played today - half the forward group and all but one of the goal scorers. On the back end, Fattaboy, Carlo, Grz, Vowels all picks - though Vowels was out today. Zboril's out injured. Swayman in net. I think this team's best defense would probably be those first four and Zboril with Forbort as a PK specialist and third pairing guy who can play more against heavy teams and spell out Grz in games where the Bruins have a lead. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2022 21:33:20 GMT
Tim Thomas Syndrome. Wild, dramatic unnecessary hotdog gymnastics. Some people are impressed by it; some are turned off by it. But like Thomas, crazy rebounds, open nets and brutally bad goals come with that package. Unlike Thomas, Linus hasnt found the occasional groove where he can carry a team. They still win despite him. Sometimes. WOW sox, you always find a way to hate Timmy eh! Throw shade any way possible! The guy put together the 2nd greatest start to finish season in the games history ffs. Still owns 5 playoff records & 4 Bruin records & because he made you look foolish, because you kept saying he was garbage you can't let that go. If you wanted to talk about his character & how he was selfish & handcuffed the Bruins by not playing his final year of the deal. That I could understand, but to talk about his play & compare him to a complete dud is beyond foolish! My comparison of the 2 styles is spot-on. Flopping hotdogs make saves that overimpress the average fan. Flopping dramatic goalies like that give up goals that look bad. Tony Esposito and Hasek and Roy all gave up goals that looked bad. I even acknowledged that your binky could get hot and carry a team for a period of time, unlike Ughmark. I guess some reading comprehension would help, there. Never, ever made me look foolish, but nice try. Hes always been exactly what I said he was. Nice of the Bs to score 7 goals a game for him in the 2011 Finals when Luongo completely outplayed him in the 3 close games they lost, which were determined by goaltending. And all the losing goals were bad overplays. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2022 21:37:43 GMT
Holy fuck, 5-1 Bs over Col, with RH??
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Post by The OC on Feb 21, 2022 21:46:15 GMT
Holy fuck, 5-1 Bs over Col, with RH?? Bruins playing like the Red Wings today! |
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Post by dannycater on Feb 21, 2022 22:35:21 GMT
Swayman by a landslide.
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Post by sandogbrewin on Feb 21, 2022 23:07:20 GMT
Well I'm mean the Bs score 5 goals all the time. For both goalies.
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Post by mdsizzle on Feb 22, 2022 0:25:49 GMT
Swayman 4
Ullmark -2
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Post by nitelite on Feb 22, 2022 4:15:58 GMT
WOW sox, you always find a way to hate Timmy eh! Throw shade any way possible! The guy put together the 2nd greatest start to finish season in the games history ffs. Still owns 5 playoff records & 4 Bruin records & because he made you look foolish, because you kept saying he was garbage you can't let that go. If you wanted to talk about his character & how he was selfish & handcuffed the Bruins by not playing his final year of the deal. That I could understand, but to talk about his play & compare him to a complete dud is beyond foolish! My comparison of the 2 styles is spot-on. Flopping hotdogs make saves that overimpress the average fan. Flopping dramatic goalies like that give up goals that look bad. Tony Esposito and Hasek and Roy all gave up goals that looked bad. I even acknowledged that your binky could get hot and carry a team for a period of time, unlike Ughmark. I guess some reading comprehension would help, there. Never, ever made me look foolish, but nice try. Hes always been exactly what I said he was. Nice of the Bs to score 7 goals a game for him in the 2011 Finals when Luongo completely outplayed him in the 3 close games they lost, which were determined by goaltending. And all the losing goals were bad overplays. You're out to lunch! Completely out played him, really? How in sweet Jesus can you even try to say a goalie who allowed 16 goals in 4 games & got pulled twice, a .678 SP & a swiss cheese GAA of 6.94 in 7 games was better in any fashion against one who allowed 8 goals total, set a record of 238 saves in a Stanley Cup Final & another for 798 saves in the playoffs a .967 SP & a 1.23 GAA in the SCF's? Stop it! You're embarrassing yourself again. My reading comprehension is fine. Thomas was the snowflake goalie of the league when he played, but comparing skill level between Thomas & LU is beyond comprehension. The only syndrome that Linus Ullmark has is the "He fucking sucks period!" Syndrome!" Which is what you used to say about Thomas pretty much on a daily basis, but he showed you didn't he & you HATE THAT! You'll say anything to downplay his accomplishments. |
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Post by drewski6 on Feb 22, 2022 14:29:13 GMT
I just want to point out that there is a lot of middle ground between being the second best goalie on this team (to Sway) and being a bad backup goalie. I maintain that Ullmark is good enough to be primary on a handful of teams, but probs not one w deep run aspirations. Hes at least adequate on every team as a #2. Sway is better.
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Post by islamorada on Feb 22, 2022 14:45:04 GMT
Holy fuck, 5-1 Bs over Col, with RH?? Bruins playing like the Red Wings today! Thursday will be a testament to the theory that the Bs lose while the Dead Wings win against same opponents like the NYR will be tested! Detriot v. Colorado..... |
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Post by chappy28 on Feb 22, 2022 15:31:05 GMT
I disagree bb. When I see the Sens play & it's their best draft picks that's leading the way. I see nothing remotely close on the B's excluding Charlie Mc. that is close. Yea, Murray's winning record may not reflect his play, but in those 5 wins he was a huge factor in getting them. So, if he had his A game earlier in the season he certainly could've help get them more. Which would've been more pressure against the B's. To be fair, as BB pointed out --- there's a big difference between picking top 10 and where the Bruins do. The Bruins have been a very good team for a very long time with the exception of a couple transition years and that means we haven't really had ANY top 10 type picks since Seguin. Of course there's the 2015 draft "what if's" but that's where any drafting convo ends up so I'll just leave it there. But one thing I do think is true is that the Bruins have been all too willing to draft the lower ceiling player in the first round. To me in the first round you have to go for the high ceiling guys and, sure you won't get them all but when you do the payoff is much greater because those are the guys you have to overpay for otherwise. Freddy is a nice player, I hope he continues to improve, but I don't think for one second that he's an irreplaceable piece of the line-up. Beecher was drafted for size and speed, but knowing he was on the 4th line amongst his peers, and his development path has followed about how you'd expect. He's a safe bet to make the show, but he's most likely a bottom 6 guy. Senyshen.....you get the point. Strangely, the Bruins scouting team seems be much better at spotting value in the later rounds and college FA's than they can evaluate the top 60 players coming out each year. It seems that much of anything you could call a "success" of their scouting department falls into that category --- Krug, Bjork, Heinen, Swayman, Steen, Cliffy, Vladar and even some of the other guys who moved on to other teams like Acciari, Vatrano, etc. If there's any credit to be given to our scouting department it's in that area. Just so frustrating that the misses they've had have been so big and their overall tendency to go way off the board in the early rounds. |
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Post by kelvana33 on Feb 22, 2022 15:33:58 GMT
If the playoffs started tomorrow, I'm not sure who would start. If I had to guess I'd go with Swayman.
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Post by The OC on Feb 22, 2022 15:56:25 GMT
If the playoffs started tomorrow, I'm not sure who would start. If I had to guess I'd go with Swayman. I’m in a drag race tomorrow. Trying to decide whether to drive a Hellcat or mammy’s ‘89 Corolla. I guess I’ll probably go with Hellcat. |
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Post by kelvana33 on Feb 22, 2022 17:43:50 GMT
If the playoffs started tomorrow, I'm not sure who would start. If I had to guess I'd go with Swayman. I’m in a drag race tomorrow. Trying to decide whether to drive a Hellcat or mammy’s ‘89 Corolla. I guess I’ll probably go with Hellcat. That's because Swayman won yesterday. He loses next game and Ullmark wins his next, your gassing up mammy's Corolla. |
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Post by The OC on Feb 22, 2022 18:09:21 GMT
I’m in a drag race tomorrow. Trying to decide whether to drive a Hellcat or mammy’s ‘89 Corolla. I guess I’ll probably go with Hellcat. That's because Swayman won yesterday. He loses next game and Ullmark wins his next, your gassing up mammy's Corolla. No, it’s because through half the season Swayman has been significantly better. Roadhouse is 5th in save % and 4th in GAA. Linus is 32nd and 31st, allowing .7 more goals per game. This isn’t even close. If I lose with the Cat, I go back to the Cat; I know I’m not winning with the Mammymibile. |
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Post by chappy28 on Feb 22, 2022 19:00:43 GMT
I just want to point out that there is a lot of middle ground between being the second best goalie on this team (to Sway) and being a bad backup goalie. I maintain that Ullmark is good enough to be primary on a handful of teams, but probs not one w deep run aspirations. Hes at least adequate on every team as a #2. Sway is better. stop talking sense....I was waiting for a fist fight to break out over this one (and now Timmy Thomas) |
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