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Post by bookboy007 on Jul 26, 2023 12:04:08 GMT
At the age Beecher and McLaughlin are, Bergy already had carved his path…. Maybe Matthew Poitras isn’t that far…. Poitras is heading back to the OHL. Good. The other end of the spectrum from racing out to try to buy your way out is to rush prospects. I don't want that either.
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Post by #4 Bobby Orr! GOAT! on Jul 26, 2023 12:43:12 GMT
Poitras is heading back to the OHL. Good. The other end of the spectrum from racing out to try to buy your way out is to rush prospects. I don't want that either. The kids a disher, give him a few games with March and JD before he goes down. It’s not rushing if they are good enough. I don’t like holding them back to the point of frustration either. He doesn’t have size, but if he is the next Savard give him a shot. I would like to see can he pass at the big level, piling up points in the Ohl is a waste.
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Post by dannycater on Jul 26, 2023 13:14:46 GMT
You're right, it's your egotistical crock as a poster here that I don't think deserves respect as your opinion on this is simply baffling as a long-time B's fan. How anyone in their screwed up mind can make a statement about tiring of the dream before most when he went 19 fucking seasons, fought through a debilating concussion that a few thought would end his career, fought through multiple injuries to various parts of his body that was breaking down over the years due to his 150 percent pursuit of great hockey....how anyone can make some of your ridiculously stupid statements is beyond belief. You are literally the only fucking fan on this board who seems to feel Bergeron just didn't do it for you. Well fawk you, and fawk using Howe (a hanger on who just wanted to play with his sons) or Bucyk in the same vain as Patrice, who saw the league explode into a fast-paced, fast-skating, high skilled sport. Bergeron's 19 years is like 30 for Johnny and Gordie. You want to kick Neely's dog too? You're bordering on becoming a tool. any enlightened hockey fan that would refer to Gordie Howe, as some "hanger on"...or your Bucyk comment, that is so rattled, it doesn;t make any sense regardless what you meant......is a squealing, hyper sensitive, over reactive, hero worshipper, not a hockey adult. Howe and Bucyk were legends. My point is how you are using them to negate Bergeron's own recent era longevity. And it has nothing to do with worshipping. It's being a good fan to appreciate the greatness that #37 put on that ice nearly every night for 19 seasons and the playoff runs of 11, 13, and 19....but you are also putting Howe on a pedestal, the way we all put Orr on one and oh yeah that is just being a fan. Howe played a long, long time. George Blanda did the same in NFL (Brady too). That might be competitive drive, but it also could be that they only knew that. Who raised the Howe kids? Gordie was playing every year and I wonder how much he missed being a father in his illustrious million year career. Howe doesn't get brownie points for playing into his 50s. He proved his point that he can play with the young guys--and I do believe his goal was to play with Marty and Mark--and he did. So congratulatons to Gordo. But Bergeron and 19 seasons is equally a long fucking time to devote to a sport that saw a lockout right after his first season, that included a variety of injuries that knocked him out of lineup, some a month or 2 at a time. It takes its toll, and he wants to be a full-time Dad and full-time husband...what's wrong with that? Nothing. You're a tool to criticize him on his retirement day no less...sad.
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Post by bookboy007 on Jul 26, 2023 13:38:57 GMT
bookboy spoke to the "awareness" thing. personally, I hate that. most agree with book, that the athlete who goes out on top somehow protects and elevates his legacy. I think it's an egotistical crock. gordie howe, johnny bucyk, tons of others, they didn't tarnish their brand by staying, they exhibited passion for the game in my eyes. they understood their blessings, and fought and scratched for the opportunity to compete. I get that. I guess I frame it differently, though. We had the discussion about this a while ago on the board, and I think there was a general acceptance of the fact that no one remembers Wayne Gretzky the turnover machine in his last year with the Rangers, still able to see the passing opportunities and read the plays but not quick enough to make them before the opponents were on him and shut it down. Still had close to .9 points per game, but it was the only season he didn't score double digit goals and the only year in his career when he was under a point/game. Tarnished legacy? Nah. Mild regret that you can't say he never scored less than a point/game in any season of his career? Sure. So for me, this isn't about "legacy" in that fashion. Not many players have had the change to make the call Bergeron made. 38, recent winner of an individual trophy or two, still statistically relevant. Lidstrom comes to mind. Yzerman. Datsyuk. Sakic, though I can't recall if his final season was a career-ending injury or if he just missed time. Niedermeyer. Not all of them made the choice Howe and Bucyk did. Crass as it is, money is part of this, but not as a way to call Bergeron fat, lazy and rich. More that I wonder if the decisions Howe and Bucyk made were at least partly influenced by their era and the money they had and hadn't made. Bucyk made less than half a million dollars for his whole career. And then toward the end of that career, here comes the WHA and Bobby Hull getting almost $3M over 10 years. Howe did a lot better, but a big chunk was in his WHA years. Howe made less than $50K a year for most of his career, but then the WHA paid him about $3M total over 7 years as a player plus (personal services etc.). Hard not to look at that and think that Howe was not simply motivated by the love of the game - he did decide to quit playing in the NHL before the WHA came calling. He was VP with the Wings for two years before the chance to play with his sons came along. You call the decision to turn down a cheque "egotistical" and maybe it's semantics to say it's pride, or self-awareness that it's not enough just to earn a roster spot after a decade of playing 18 min a night, first PP, first PK.... He'd still be a great value on the roster at $1M no matter where they had him, but that's not "competing" for a player like Bergeron. And to me, the self-awareness to know that they need you to be the $7M player on the top line and not just whatever you have left in the tank means that you're not just assessing your own willingness to scrap for a roster spot; it's a question of whether you can deliver what they need to be a contender. And if you're convinced the answer is no, I would prefer that you not come back and struggle like JTS in the playoffs with a rib injury. I like players whose fire is based on winning and not just playing or competing, and players who want to play a big role in winning. I hate the guys who bounce from team to team trying to find a situation where they're already poised to win a Cup, and one more veteran scorer or former PMD who uses their mobility and savvy mostly to play D on the third pairing now is just insurance. Playing it out because you're still better than 2/3rds of the league is one thing; playing because you still think you can be a top player on a Cup contender is another. And I think that was Bergeron's bar. He doesn't want to be a third line C; He feels that, with where his body and game are, the Bruins would be hard pressed to win a Cup with him as the #1C; So he made a call that may leave the Bruins with questions but ultimately doesn't make the difference between them being among the elite or not. Part of this, for me, it that I don't think Bergeron was still as good as ever last year. Last year was his lowest point total since he became the clear #1C. 1/3rd of his points and his goals were on the PP. He had 2 more points at ES than DeBrusk in 14 more games; he only outscored Trent Frederic at even strength by 7 points, and Freddy had more ES goals. He was still a great player; those numbers always need some kind of multiplier to make it a true comparison because Bergeron's commitment to the defensive game likely costs him points but at a rate far lower than it costs others. But watching him last year, I could see the collapse of his offensive game coming. It was part of their struggle on the PP1. He wasn't the threat that you had to cover at the expense of a potential seam pass to Pastrnak. He didn't wriggle free in the bumper for a quick shot as easily. So maybe ego is involved, but I don't mind that if the player is motivated to be the straw on a team that has a legit chance to win. He's been that the last two seasons and they've failed to get out of the first round. I could see that realtiy being a big part of his decision.
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Post by dannycater on Jul 26, 2023 13:44:11 GMT
No, it was sad watching Gretz his last year. Sorry, it didn't tarnish him, but it showed the game had passed him by a bit, and that's something that was unnecessary for him. He loved the game. But I'm done with this semantic bullshit when it comes to Bergeron and his career...the guy flat out gave 150 percent every fucking game with broken ribs, with concussions, with everything...trying to analyze why retiring "early" is pretty silly. He didn't retire early. He played fucking 19 fucking seasons...enough! He played as long as anyone on one team ever. As OC said most points by one franchise in one person's career--PB. End of story. Good night and God Bless....I have a kid who is younger than Bergeron's career by one year...sobering. Sobering that I saw #37 first NHL goal in person too. That's a long fucking time to play high level professional sport. It's insane if you think about it. Thornton couldn't play at that level his last few seasons. Bergeron did.
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Post by bookboy007 on Jul 26, 2023 13:47:46 GMT
Good. The other end of the spectrum from racing out to try to buy your way out is to rush prospects. I don't want that either. The kids a disher, give him a few games with March and JD before he goes down. It’s not rushing if they are good enough. I don’t like holding them back to the point of frustration either. He doesn’t have size, but if he is the next Savard give him a shot. I would like to see can he pass at the big level, piling up points in the Ohl is a waste. He was drafted two years ago. He's not even 20 yet. If another year of junior at this stage is frustrating to the point that he's going to sulk and not play to his potential, great - dodged that character issue! That said, they planned to send Bergeron back to juniors, too, at his first camp. Let Poitras have some scoring line chances to see if he can handle the NHL. But remember the lesson of Cap'n Jack - it's not just a question of dishing and points. If you can't win battles for the puck, tie up the opposing C's stick in the slot, or get back fast enough to take away passing lanes, you won't be in Boston long even if you make a few silky dishes. Basically, make him earn it. If he does go back to the OHL, I want to see his goal total go up. Yeah, I agree, incrementally more points at this stage isn't that interesting to me, but I want to see that he can put the puck in the net himself and not solely depend on someone else finishing. In the NHL, that's death for most players. I can think of very few players who were successful throughout their careers relying solely on dishing. I'd look for the 1:2 G:A ratio for a playmaking C. In his first year in Guelph, Poitras went 21-29-50. In 5 fewer games last year, he scored 5 fewer goals, but added 50 more assists. If he does go back, I want to see that find a middle ground. Another 95 point season with 30-65-95 and a good two way game will give me a lot more hope for the kid.
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Post by dannycater on Jul 26, 2023 13:50:41 GMT
When I saw that game in Bergeron's rookie season. I remember I knew this kid was going to play, but the B's had some good players so I wasn't really eye-watching him. But then it became really obvious that he was the fastest B that night, made plays, got in on a few scoring chances. By the time the game was over, I was like "holy shit, this Patrice kid is fucking awesome." The rest is history.
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Post by dannycater on Jul 26, 2023 13:55:21 GMT
Let me be really clear here...everyone thinks that because I adore DK's career/play that in some way that I didn't appreciate Bergeron. No, I knew how much 37 meant to the B's and I appreciated him as part of that core group. Chara too even though I didn't like how it ended for him in Boston. Rask too and I probably bashed him too much compared to Thomas' 11 Cup run. Rask was incredibly consistent for many years in a row. Did he really have a bad season? PB, end of an era. I have no problem idolizing him or other fans doing that. It's called being a fan. Some of you guys are too full of yourselves to just accept that. Why the fuck do you think this room even exists? Idolizing and following a sport we love and the guys who play it.
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Post by stevegm on Jul 26, 2023 14:05:56 GMT
Let me be really clear here...everyone thinks that because I adore DK's career/play that in some way that I didn't appreciate Bergeron. No, I knew how much 37 meant to the B's and I appreciated him as part of that core group. Chara too even though I didn't like how it ended for him in Boston. Rask too and I probably bashed him too much compared to Thomas' 11 Cup run. Rask was incredibly consistent for many years in a row. Did he really have a bad season? PB, end of an era. I have no problem idolizing him or other fans doing that. It's called being a fan. Some of you guys are too full of yourselves to just accept that. Why the fuck do you think this room even exists? Idolizing and following a sport we love and the guys who play it. what's clear, is your ability to think logically...matches your avatar
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Post by dannycater on Jul 26, 2023 14:11:28 GMT
Let me be really clear here...everyone thinks that because I adore DK's career/play that in some way that I didn't appreciate Bergeron. No, I knew how much 37 meant to the B's and I appreciated him as part of that core group. Chara too even though I didn't like how it ended for him in Boston. Rask too and I probably bashed him too much compared to Thomas' 11 Cup run. Rask was incredibly consistent for many years in a row. Did he really have a bad season? PB, end of an era. I have no problem idolizing him or other fans doing that. It's called being a fan. Some of you guys are too full of yourselves to just accept that. Why the fuck do you think this room even exists? Idolizing and following a sport we love and the guys who play it. what's clear, is your ability to think logically...matches your avatar Yours is the perfect car used in Red Asphalt. Very appropriate.
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Post by stevegm on Jul 26, 2023 14:19:40 GMT
any enlightened hockey fan that would refer to Gordie Howe, as some "hanger on"...or your Bucyk comment, that is so rattled, it doesn;t make any sense regardless what you meant......is a squealing, hyper sensitive, over reactive, hero worshipper, not a hockey adult. Howe and Bucyk were legends. My point is how you are using them to negate Bergeron's own recent era longevity. And it has nothing to do with worshipping. It's being a good fan to appreciate the greatness that #37 put on that ice nearly every night for 19 seasons and the playoff runs of 11, 13, and 19....but you are also putting Howe on a pedestal, the way we all put Orr on one and oh yeah that is just being a fan. Howe played a long, long time. George Blanda did the same in NFL (Brady too). That might be competitive drive, but it also could be that they only knew that. Who raised the Howe kids? Gordie was playing every year and I wonder how much he missed being a father in his illustrious million year career. Howe doesn't get brownie points for playing into his 50s. He proved his point that he can play with the young guys--and I do believe his goal was to play with Marty and Mark--and he did. So congratulatons to Gordo. But Bergeron and 19 seasons is equally a long fucking time to devote to a sport that saw a lockout right after his first season, that included a variety of injuries that knocked him out of lineup, some a month or 2 at a time. It takes its toll, and he wants to be a full-time Dad and full-time husband...what's wrong with that? Nothing. You're a tool to criticize him on his retirement day no less...sad. bullshit. own your words, asshole. you said "hanger on" not me. now youre walking back. i agreed bergeron is a legend, just not to gordies status, or orr's, or many many others. he's one of my favorite bruins. i said i respect his decision. not criticising. simply saying I'd have even more respect, if he "wanted it more", while he was still plenty capable. it's a nuanced opinion to yours, and some of the other cult worshippers, not night and day. it's also an attempt to counter a hive mentality, and create some lively conversation. double up your daily Ritalin dose and go fawk off on a studio tour
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Post by dannycater on Jul 26, 2023 14:21:32 GMT
Howe and Bucyk were legends. My point is how you are using them to negate Bergeron's own recent era longevity. And it has nothing to do with worshipping. It's being a good fan to appreciate the greatness that #37 put on that ice nearly every night for 19 seasons and the playoff runs of 11, 13, and 19....but you are also putting Howe on a pedestal, the way we all put Orr on one and oh yeah that is just being a fan. Howe played a long, long time. George Blanda did the same in NFL (Brady too). That might be competitive drive, but it also could be that they only knew that. Who raised the Howe kids? Gordie was playing every year and I wonder how much he missed being a father in his illustrious million year career. Howe doesn't get brownie points for playing into his 50s. He proved his point that he can play with the young guys--and I do believe his goal was to play with Marty and Mark--and he did. So congratulatons to Gordo. But Bergeron and 19 seasons is equally a long fucking time to devote to a sport that saw a lockout right after his first season, that included a variety of injuries that knocked him out of lineup, some a month or 2 at a time. It takes its toll, and he wants to be a full-time Dad and full-time husband...what's wrong with that? Nothing. You're a tool to criticize him on his retirement day no less...sad. bullshit. own your words, asshole. you said "hanger on" not me. now youre walking back. i agreed bergeron is a legend, just not to gordies status, or orr's, or many many others. he's one of my favorite bruins. i said i respect his decision. not criticising. simply saying I'd have even more respect, if he "wanted it more", while he was still plenty capable. it's a nuanced opinion to yours, and some of the other cult worshippers, not night and day. it's also an attempt to counter a hive mentality, and create some lively conversation. double up your daily Ritalin dose and go fawk off on a studio tour rattled much?
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Post by thanx4memORRies on Jul 26, 2023 14:27:37 GMT
At the age Beecher and McLaughlin are, Bergy already had carved his path…. Maybe Matthew Poitras isn’t that far…. Poitras is heading back to the OHL. Did I say he was going to be passing gas on the B’S bench this season? Thanx for the update there head scout….
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Post by sandogbrewin on Jul 26, 2023 14:38:16 GMT
Good. The other end of the spectrum from racing out to try to buy your way out is to rush prospects. I don't want that either. The kids a disher, give him a few games with March and JD before he goes down. It’s not rushing if they are good enough. I don’t like holding them back to the point of frustration either. He doesn’t have size, but if he is the next Savard give him a shot. I would like to see can he pass at the big level, piling up points in the Ohl is a waste. Langebrunner and Sweeney are going to want to see how Poitras handles the pounding in the AHL. Studnicka was good for the PBruins. Beecher would get a shot before Poitras. Unless next year Poitras just tears up the AHL 1st 20 games.
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Post by stevegm on Jul 26, 2023 15:06:37 GMT
bookboy spoke to the "awareness" thing. personally, I hate that. most agree with book, that the athlete who goes out on top somehow protects and elevates his legacy. I think it's an egotistical crock. gordie howe, johnny bucyk, tons of others, they didn't tarnish their brand by staying, they exhibited passion for the game in my eyes. they understood their blessings, and fought and scratched for the opportunity to compete. I get that. I guess I frame it differently, though. We had the discussion about this a while ago on the board, and I think there was a general acceptance of the fact that no one remembers Wayne Gretzky the turnover machine in his last year with the Rangers, still able to see the passing opportunities and read the plays but not quick enough to make them before the opponents were on him and shut it down. Still had close to .9 points per game, but it was the only season he didn't score double digit goals and the only year in his career when he was under a point/game. Tarnished legacy? Nah. Mild regret that you can't say he never scored less than a point/game in any season of his career? Sure. So for me, this isn't about "legacy" in that fashion.
Not many players have had the change to make the call Bergeron made. 38, recent winner of an individual trophy or two, still statistically relevant. Lidstrom comes to mind. Yzerman. Datsyuk. Sakic, though I can't recall if his final season was a career-ending injury or if he just missed time. Niedermeyer. Not all of them made the choice Howe and Bucyk did. Crass as it is, money is part of this, but not as a way to call Bergeron fat, lazy and rich. More that I wonder if the decisions Howe and Bucyk made were at least partly influenced by their era and the money they had and hadn't made. Bucyk made less than half a million dollars for his whole career. And then toward the end of that career, here comes the WHA and Bobby Hull getting almost $3M over 10 years. Howe did a lot better, but a big chunk was in his WHA years. Howe made less than $50K a year for most of his career, but then the WHA paid him about $3M total over 7 years as a player plus (personal services etc.). Hard not to look at that and think that Howe was not simply motivated by the love of the game - he did decide to quit playing in the NHL before the WHA came calling. He was VP with the Wings for two years before the chance to play with his sons came along. You call the decision to turn down a cheque "egotistical" and maybe it's semantics to say it's pride, or self-awareness that it's not enough just to earn a roster spot after a decade of playing 18 min a night, first PP, first PK.... He'd still be a great value on the roster at $1M no matter where they had him, but that's not "competing" for a player like Bergeron. And to me, the self-awareness to know that they need you to be the $7M player on the top line and not just whatever you have left in the tank means that you're not just assessing your own willingness to scrap for a roster spot; it's a question of whether you can deliver what they need to be a contender. And if you're convinced the answer is no, I would prefer that you not come back and struggle like JTS in the playoffs with a rib injury.I like players whose fire is based on winning and not just playing or competing, and players who want to play a big role in winning. I hate the guys who bounce from team to team trying to find a situation where they're already poised to win a Cup, and one more veteran scorer or former PMD who uses their mobility and savvy mostly to play D on the third pairing now is just insurance. Playing it out because you're still better than 2/3rds of the league is one thing; playing because you still think you can be a top player on a Cup contender is another. And I think that was Bergeron's bar. He doesn't want to be a third line C; He feels that, with where his body and game are, the Bruins would be hard pressed to win a Cup with him as the #1C; So he made a call that may leave the Bruins with questions but ultimately doesn't make the difference between them being among the elite or not. Part of this, for me, it that I don't think Bergeron was still as good as ever last year. Last year was his lowest point total since he became the clear #1C. 1/3rd of his points and his goals were on the PP. He had 2 more points at ES than DeBrusk in 14 more games; he only outscored Trent Frederic at even strength by 7 points, and Freddy had more ES goals. He was still a great player; those numbers always need some kind of multiplier to make it a true comparison because Bergeron's commitment to the defensive game likely costs him points but at a rate far lower than it costs others. But watching him last year, I could see the collapse of his offensive game coming. It was part of their struggle on the PP1. He wasn't the threat that you had to cover at the expense of a potential seam pass to Pastrnak. He didn't wriggle free in the bumper for a quick shot as easily. So maybe ego is involved, but I don't mind that if the player is motivated to be the straw on a team that has a legit chance to win. He's been that the last two seasons and they've failed to get out of the first round. I could see that realtiy being a big part of his decision. yeah, you, me, whoever can frame things as we wish, but I think you get where I'm coming from. I didn't go back, but if I said turning down a check was egotistical, it isn't what I meant. I don't think any of this has anything to do with self awareness as a virtue either. no amount of awareness suggests he "should" be quitting. of course there are subtle signs he's aging out, but the reality is...he's still very good. we have differences in how we see this, but they're nuanced. its refreshing those don't seem to threaten your emotional well being. perhaps where we see this type of thing from completely different angles, is the bold in italics above. you're not wrong, and im not wrong for seeing it opposite. I do though, think your interpretation reeks of status and entitlement. I think players should want to be part of the team. do what's being asked of them. if it makes sense. desire to compete and do your best. throwing in the towel because you aren't the best player on the team anymore? or because you don't want to be remembered scoring 20 goals? it just doesn't spark "more" adoration from me. whatever floats your boat. I guess what I'm saying, in a sea hugs and kisses and applause...is there's some good stuff left on the table. for me,,what I admire most, is a player who fights like hell to wring every last ounce of that opportunity out of the blessing it is, to play for the Bruins, and NHL hockey in general. having said all that...there are plenty of things that could change my mind completely, and they may already be part of the decision making process. if he's courting probable injury by continuing, above and beyond normal expectancy at this stage, he's back on my Mt Rushmore. If he's lost his desire...this may sound contradictory, but it isn't. He isn't the most talented legend there's ever been. his greatness is forged from discipline and determination, and love. You can will some of that stuff, but not all. It's a kids game, and when some of the kid in you disappears, it's impossible to summon everything it takes, at that level. that kind of awareness, I have huge, huge respect for. If the fire just doesn't burn like it used to, and he's done everything he can to still fuel it, with no results...it probably is time to go. if not, I'm a little disappointed. a couple ways this could play out, and it's all personal. In 5 years, he could be at total peace with this. Most are, cuz they really didn't have much of a choice. But in his case, 5 years down the road, he'll know he could have had a couple more years. Lots of upside in that too. I hope he doesn't have regrets. In any event, this bullshit is about on the same real life level as Pernel Roberts leaving Bonanza, or whose hornier..., Ginger or Mary Anne.
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Post by stevegm on Jul 26, 2023 15:07:22 GMT
bullshit. own your words, asshole. you said "hanger on" not me. now youre walking back. i agreed bergeron is a legend, just not to gordies status, or orr's, or many many others. he's one of my favorite bruins. i said i respect his decision. not criticising. simply saying I'd have even more respect, if he "wanted it more", while he was still plenty capable. it's a nuanced opinion to yours, and some of the other cult worshippers, not night and day. it's also an attempt to counter a hive mentality, and create some lively conversation. double up your daily Ritalin dose and go fawk off on a studio tour rattled much? not much of a defense dan
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Post by bookboy007 on Jul 26, 2023 16:50:59 GMT
having said all that...there are plenty of things that could change my mind completely, and they may already be part of the decision making process. if he's courting probable injury by continuing, above and beyond normal expectancy at this stage, he's back on my Mt Rushmore. If he's lost his desire...this may sound contradictory, but it isn't. He isn't the most talented legend there's ever been. his greatness is forged from discipline and determination, and love. You can will some of that stuff, but not all. It's a kids game, and when some of the kid in you disappears, it's impossible to summon everything it takes, at that level. that kind of awareness, I have huge, huge respect for. If the fire just doesn't burn like it used to, and he's done everything he can to still fuel it, with no results...it probably is time to go.if not, I'm a little disappointed. a couple ways this could play out, and it's all personal. In 5 years, he could be at total peace with this. Most are, cuz they really didn't have much of a choice. But in his case, 5 years down the road, he'll know he could have had a couple more years. Lots of upside in that too. I hope he doesn't have regrets. In any event, this bullshit is about on the same real life level as Pernel Roberts leaving Bonanza, or whose hornier..., Ginger or Mary Anne. It was probably Lovie Howell. I'm guessing she's a freak and her husband always seemed like he might be more into the Professor. I think in some ways I'm jumping ahead to your bold. All of the other things I was talking about are, to me, elements of the self-awareness I started with. Some of that is the obvious stuff about TOI and PPTOI being a reward in the regular language of the game. How much harder is it to summon up the level of desire it takes to play and commit the way Bergeron has for 20 years if you know you probably shouldn't be the PP1 C? Or that you might find yourself as a shutdown C playing 1/3 less TOI. Or just realizing that you don't have the energy/strength/quickness any more to do the things that motivated you to train and practice with the necessary dedication? You can do the work, but you won't get it back, especially if the role you're coming back to feels more like a job than a game. That's time for ya. I think that's where he is, especially after the last two playoff losses. We've talked a lot about him not wanting to go out like that, but maybe in his offseason reflections, he realized that he doesn't know if he could do any better ... ever again. Last year was tough with the injury, but Carolina two years ago was similar in a lot of ways, especially on the road. He had 7 points in 7 games, and he even had 3 in 4 games on the road, but his line had a very hard time creating anything with regularity, and he got dominated at the dot in Carolina. They didn't get exposed in quite the same way as they did against the Panthers, but they did get pushed around and Carolina's forecheck kept them from doing much. They didn't seem to have an answer, and Florida applied the same formula with even better results. If you get to that point, that realization that you're falling behind not catching up due to time and age and injury...that fire is very, very hard to stoke.
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Post by bookboy007 on Jul 26, 2023 16:53:50 GMT
The kids a disher, give him a few games with March and JD before he goes down. It’s not rushing if they are good enough. I don’t like holding them back to the point of frustration either. He doesn’t have size, but if he is the next Savard give him a shot. I would like to see can he pass at the big level, piling up points in the Ohl is a waste. Langebrunner and Sweeney are going to want to see how Poitras handles the pounding in the AHL. Studnicka was good for the PBruins. Beecher would get a shot before Poitras. Unless next year Poitras just tears up the AHL 1st 20 games. I want Beecher to get a shot this year. Maybe it's out of camp and maybe it's a callup, but I see no real value in giving too much time to Patrick Brown or some other 27 yr old journeyman unless you've given Beecher a chance to try.
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Post by dannycater on Jul 26, 2023 17:36:36 GMT
For stevegm--Gordie Howe was a hangar on...so yes, he was...great player, ambassador to the game..but he played way past his prime and that's great, but doesn't make him better or a better person than 6-time Selke Award winner.
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Post by thanx4memORRies on Jul 26, 2023 17:43:26 GMT
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Post by bookboy007 on Jul 26, 2023 20:05:14 GMT
For stevegm--Gordie Howe was a hangar on...so yes, he was...great player, ambassador to the game..but he played way past his prime and that's great, but doesn't make him better or a better person than 6-time Selke Award winner. In his final year in Detroit, he was their 3rd leading scorer, and still close to about 0.9 points/game. They weren't a good team though. His first year in the WHA, though, he had 100 points and was third in the league. He averaged 100 points in his first three years in the WHA. Was over a point a game his first five. He was still over 0.5 points/game in his last year with the Whale in the NHL. He was 51.
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Post by dannycater on Jul 26, 2023 20:20:48 GMT
For stevegm--Gordie Howe was a hangar on...so yes, he was...great player, ambassador to the game..but he played way past his prime and that's great, but doesn't make him better or a better person than 6-time Selke Award winner. In his final year in Detroit, he was their 3rd leading scorer, and still close to about 0.9 points/game. They weren't a good team though. His first year in the WHA, though, he had 100 points and was third in the league. He averaged 100 points in his first three years in the WHA. Was over a point a game his first five. He was still over 0.5 points/game in his last year with the Whale in the NHL. He was 51. Yes, book, he was fantastic player in a high point, every one scored 50 goal and 100 point league--WHA...I would have scored 50 in the WHA where defense took a holiday. I met him, the guy is a Golden God--but so is Bergeron and using Gordie and Johnny Buyck very long careers to discount 19 years by PB is fucking idiotic....also, you can't read very well...I said "For stevegm"....
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Post by stevegm on Jul 26, 2023 21:15:03 GMT
For stevegm--Gordie Howe was a hangar on...so yes, he was...great player, ambassador to the game..but he played way past his prime and that's great, but doesn't make him better or a better person than 6-time Selke Award winner. youre right. we don't really know the "person" either is.........youre also wrong. Gordie was much better at hockey
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Post by dannycater on Jul 26, 2023 21:17:17 GMT
For stevegm--Gordie Howe was a hangar on...so yes, he was...great player, ambassador to the game..but he played way past his prime and that's great, but doesn't make him better or a better person than 6-time Selke Award winner. youre right. we don't really know the "person" either is.........youre also wrong. Gordie was much better at hockey Okay, Johnny Hockey. Howe was better and Bergeron is just some guy. Right. Howe was great in his generation. Bergeron would have been sensational in that generation.
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Post by stevegm on Jul 26, 2023 21:35:23 GMT
In his final year in Detroit, he was their 3rd leading scorer, and still close to about 0.9 points/game. They weren't a good team though. His first year in the WHA, though, he had 100 points and was third in the league. He averaged 100 points in his first three years in the WHA. Was over a point a game his first five. He was still over 0.5 points/game in his last year with the Whale in the NHL. He was 51. Yes, book, he was fantastic player in a high point, every one scored 50 goal and 100 point league--WHA...I would have scored 50 in the WHA where defense took a holiday. I met him, the guy is a Golden God--but so is Bergeron and using Gordie and Johnny Buyck very long careers to discount 19 years by PB is fucking idiotic....also, you can't read very well...I said "For stevegm".... I'm not discounting his 19 years .... cuz it means dik all. lots of greats played longer, I just gave a couple examples, tenure is a poor measuring stick so all the players that stuck around for their 20th year, or 21st or longer...deserve a ton more gratitude than those that played 19? it means very little from a big picture perspective.
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