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Post by sandogbrewin on Jan 23, 2023 21:54:45 GMT
Depth is awesome and more than likely what will happen. But if Horvat can be had. Then it needs to be pursued. Bergy-Marchy-Hall Krejci-Pasta-Zacha Horvat-Coyle-Freddy I’d go to war with that…. You don't bring Horvat in, the way he's projecting, then put him on the 3rd line. But I like your war comment. Bs would be Viking marauders ransacking monasteries on Britain's coast.
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Post by bookboy007 on Jan 23, 2023 21:57:28 GMT
Just to flesh that out - Bo will likely play less than 75% of the TOI he got in Vancouver. If you reduce his stats in Vancouver by 25% (not that this is a linear thing, but as a way to get a handle on setting expectations), he'd have 22 goals, 14 assists for 36 points in 46 games. That's .78 points per game, 0.06 points/game below DeBrusk's output.
To me, the main argument to make the trade is that you intend to play Horvat at C as Bergeron's heir apparent next year, and you don't have any choice but to get him now or he'll be gone to some other team that will sign him long term. The only way I see that happening is if they trade DeBrusk for him. I don't think the Bruins have another asset that's attractive enough and even remotely expendable. I will understand if they do it, but I don't think it's a no brainer.
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Post by dannycater on Jan 23, 2023 22:08:37 GMT
We can always give #10 to Bo.
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Post by bookboy007 on Jan 23, 2023 22:09:31 GMT
Jakey also "only" makes $4mil next year. If the Bruins are serious about re-signing Pasta, they'll need the production and skill #74 brings at that price tag. Bringing in Horvat will cost considerably more against the cap and then what do you have left? Nah....go for depth this year and hope either Bergeron or Krejci give it one more go. There's no indication they've lost a step. That way, the window is still wide open this year and next. Worry about 2024-2025 another day and another time, when ideally a few cheap ELCs are part of the equation. Get creative down the road...looking at FAs such as Scheifele, Lindholm #2 from CGY, Roslovic from Lumbus, Stephenson out of Vegas. Tier 2 guys. Get all the Lindholms! There is a massive spread in your list, though. Schneiffle is a point/game player over the last 7 seasons. Lindholm had a point/game year last year and is close to that pace this year...but hasn't always been that productive. Stephenson has been one of the biggest jackpots in Vegas. He leads Vegas in scoring because the Ginger can't stay healthy, but he's not a point/game calibre guy. And Roslovic has 4 goals in 43 games. I think Stephenson is the model rather than the target. There may just be some kid out there with great wheels and a high motor who is a good fit with what the Bruins do. He's playing 3/4 line minutes and PK but no more than 12 min a night and he looks to have plateaued. I don't know what his name is, but if they give him a shot in the top 6, he'll be like Stephenson or Jason Allison and run with the chance.
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Post by bookboy007 on Jan 23, 2023 22:10:26 GMT
We can always give #10 to Bo. We'll give YOU to Bo.
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Post by dannycater on Jan 23, 2023 22:12:02 GMT
We can always give #10 to Bo. We'll give YOU to Bo. well, perfect 10.
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Post by thanx4memORRies on Jan 23, 2023 22:35:10 GMT
Bergy-Marchy-Hall Krejci-Pasta-Zacha Horvat-Coyle-Freddy I’d go to war with that…. You don't bring Horvat in, the way he's projecting, then put him on the 3rd line. But I like your war comment. Bs would be Viking marauders ransacking monasteries on Britain's coast. Bronco wouldn’t be the third-line center for very long…. Unless the pundits are just blowing hot wind, it appears Donnie’s been kicking the tires…. Doubt he’s looking at Horvat as just a rental and, if signed,then paying him for the long term even more than Coyle’s making just to pivot the third line….
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Post by mdsizzle on Jan 23, 2023 23:23:42 GMT
Jakey also "only" makes $4mil next year. If the Bruins are serious about re-signing Pasta, they'll need the production and skill #74 brings at that price tag. Bringing in Horvat will cost considerably more against the cap and then what do you have left? Nah....go for depth this year and hope either Bergeron or Krejci give it one more go. There's no indication they've lost a step. That way, the window is still wide open this year and next. Worry about 2024-2025 another day and another time, when ideally a few cheap ELCs are part of the equation. Get creative down the road...looking at FAs such as Scheifele, Lindholm #2 from CGY, Roslovic from Lumbus, Stephenson out of Vegas. Tier 2 guys. Get all the Lindholms! There is a massive spread in your list, though. Schneiffle is a point/game player over the last 7 seasons. Lindholm had a point/game year last year and is close to that pace this year...but hasn't always been that productive. Stephenson has been one of the biggest jackpots in Vegas. He leads Vegas in scoring because the Ginger can't stay healthy, but he's not a point/game calibre guy. And Roslovic has 4 goals in 43 games. I think Stephenson is the model rather than the target. There may just be some kid out there with great wheels and a high motor who is a good fit with what the Bruins do. He's playing 3/4 line minutes and PK but no more than 12 min a night and he looks to have plateaued. I don't know what his name is, but if they give him a shot in the top 6, he'll be like Stephenson or Jason Allison and run with the chance. A Lindholm collection isn't the worst idea.
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Post by thanx4memORRies on Jan 23, 2023 23:57:34 GMT
Isn’t it always risky bringing in a new player and hoping he fits in? I just find you try putting the best team on the ice and see what happens…. It’s not as if the B’S would be moving one of their top players…. Yes. It is always risky bringing in a new player. That's my point. I think the reward in this case may not be high enough to justify the risk. You have to consider that Horvat a) likely isn't going to play C on this team, or if he does, he might be the 3C; b) he is going to play about 4 minutes fewer per game; c) he probably would be down low on the PP1 and not in the bumper, so not in the spot that has helped him score 11PPG; d) not playing under loosey goosey Brucie but learning a new system that other players have been slow to adjust to and find their scoring touch. That's a lot of risk that even if the chemistry's right suggests you can't necessarily expect Horvat to produce the way he is in Vancouver if he goes to Boston. DeBrusk is the Bergeron line RW, the #2RW on the team, the 4th leading points/game forward (ahead of Bergeron), second on the team in ES goals, and their top shootout performer. That's one of their top players. He's also $4M a season, which means his value for what he's been contributing is ridiculous. Hampus and Zacha have thrived with the B’S…. So would Bronco…. As for Jakey, he’ll be making north of 4 mil. after next year…. that’s unless he starts sh!tting the bed again….
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Post by sandogbrewin on Jan 24, 2023 2:35:12 GMT
You don't bring Horvat in, the way he's projecting, then put him on the 3rd line. But I like your war comment. Bs would be Viking marauders ransacking monasteries on Britain's coast. Bronco wouldn’t be the third-line center for very long…. Unless the pundits are just blowing hot wind, it appears Donnie’s been kicking the tires…. Doubt he’s looking at Horvat as just a rental and, if signed,then paying him for the long term even more than Coyle’s making just to pivot the third line…. Yah there's no way Sweeney gives up, what he would to trade, to get Horvat without an extension.
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Post by asmaha on Jan 24, 2023 2:40:48 GMT
Jakey also "only" makes $4mil next year. If the Bruins are serious about re-signing Pasta, they'll need the production and skill #74 brings at that price tag. Bringing in Horvat will cost considerably more against the cap and then what do you have left? Nah....go for depth this year and hope either Bergeron or Krejci give it one more go. There's no indication they've lost a step. That way, the window is still wide open this year and next. Worry about 2024-2025 another day and another time, when ideally a few cheap ELCs are part of the equation. Get creative down the road...looking at FAs such as Scheifele, Lindholm #2 from CGY, Roslovic from Lumbus, Stephenson out of Vegas. Tier 2 guys. On what planet is Scheifele a tier 2 guy…. Bad punctuation. I meant or random 2nd Tier guy as part of a list of ways to go about it if they pass on Horvat. People are acting like he’s the last good center to ever come available.
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Post by brewwins on Jan 24, 2023 5:37:40 GMT
We can always give #10 to Bo. We'll give YOU to Bo. A Bo job?
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Post by bookboy007 on Jan 24, 2023 12:58:45 GMT
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Post by 50belowzero on Jan 24, 2023 14:43:06 GMT
What's wrong with the top 3 lines as constituted and healthy? I say nothing, the top 2 lines are great and the 3rd line is a very tough matchup for any team the B's face. I'm on the 'bring in some depth' side of things, a D and a fwd. Depth is awesome and more than likely what will happen. But if Horvat can be had. Then it needs to be pursued. Personally i think that other teams will come up with a better offer than the B's are willing to part with. Teams like the Stars, Canes, Kings, Wild etc, i bet even Captain Lou makes a call to get him to the Islanders. Donnie hasn't been afraid to make moves at the deadline but the package to get Horvat might be too steep.
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Post by chappy28 on Jan 24, 2023 16:38:17 GMT
Depth is awesome and more than likely what will happen. But if Horvat can be had. Then it needs to be pursued. Personally i think that other teams will come up with a better offer than the B's are willing to part with. Teams like the Stars, Canes, Kings, Wild etc, i bet even Captain Lou makes a call to get him to the Islanders. Donnie hasn't been afraid to make moves at the deadline but the package to get Horvat might be too steep. Exactly. The top FA in a career year will command the biggest premium. That's not a move for the run away best team in the league to do. That's a move for team's 2-6 who are convinced they are one piece away from being contenders. Even if we had the capital to make an offer like that, I don't think I'd want us to do it. Better moves to be made in the off-season if the future is any consideration -- which in my mind, the case for the future is at least 50% of the justification for that move. Our top 6 is stacked
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Post by watchtower on Jan 24, 2023 18:05:24 GMT
With the team playing so well and the "last dance" narrative in full force, trade chatter is already heating up around this year's Bruins team making moves for a run to the cup. However, it makes me question the overall idea of "going for it", and the general idea that a GM MUST make moves at the trade deadline if he thinks his team is a contender. It seems to me that of all the deadline trade moves each year, it only works out for one team, and often times that team is NOT the team that went gangbusters at the deadline to land the big prize. At 19-3, I think it's fair to question whether this team actually has any glaring needs to improve upon and you also have to take into consideration what it means to remove a guy from the roster to make room for someone else chemistry wise. I'm reading a ton of Patrick Kane talk for example. Of course he's a great player, but honestly, how does he fit on this team? Who do you have to ship out to make a deal like that work? Is it really worth it? We've got a great top six forward group as is, and lately we've seen Hall playing as far down as the third line. Cap space wise, we'd have to remove multiple players, and I'm guessing Debrusk would be a goner both to make room in the top six, but also to move the salary we'd need to move. And then we'd lose next year's first at a minimum, which admittedly would be easier to swallow if we win a cup, but would certainly hurt if we fall short. And if we do fall short, then we've all but sealed the deal of an impending cliff as we made our team older, and our prospect pool deeper. The only deal that I'd like to see Sweeney pull off to improve this team would be for a guy like Horvat, who could make us better this year, but also give us a long term solution at center to keep Pasta around. But again, I just don't see how we pull something like that off unless we literally empty the coffers and give up Lysell, Lohrei, 1st etc etc. to match what others will offer. Part of me just wants them to stand pat (aside from getting rid of Reilly to get under the cap). Don't mess with a winning formula, don't mortgage the future, and ride this team all the way to the cup.
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Post by watchtower on Jan 24, 2023 18:07:41 GMT
Bergy-Marchy-Hall Krejci-Pasta-Zacha Horvat-Coyle-Freddy I’d go to war with that…. You don't bring Horvat in, the way he's projecting, then put him on the 3rd line. But I like your war comment. Bs would be Viking marauders ransacking monasteries on Britain's coast.
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Post by watchtower on Jan 24, 2023 18:08:57 GMT
You don't bring Horvat in, the way he's projecting, then put him on the 3rd line. But I like your war comment. Bs would be Viking marauders ransacking monasteries on Britain's coast.
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Post by watchtower on Jan 24, 2023 18:11:42 GMT
Don't forget Jake Debrusk...he's like adding speed and scoring without a trade.He was on fire before the injury.
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Post by 50belowzero on Jan 24, 2023 19:15:16 GMT
Personally i think that other teams will come up with a better offer than the B's are willing to part with. Teams like the Stars, Canes, Kings, Wild etc, i bet even Captain Lou makes a call to get him to the Islanders. Donnie hasn't been afraid to make moves at the deadline but the package to get Horvat might be too steep. Exactly. The top FA in a career year will command the biggest premium. That's not a move for the run away best team in the league to do. That's a move for team's 2-6 who are convinced they are one piece away from being contenders. Even if we had the capital to make an offer like that, I don't think I'd want us to do it. Better moves to be made in the off-season if the future is any consideration -- which in my mind, the case for the future is at least 50% of the justification for that move. Our top 6 is stackedYep, i see no reason to mess with that whatsoever.
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Post by sandogbrewin on Jan 24, 2023 21:15:26 GMT
Depth is awesome and more than likely what will happen. But if Horvat can be had. Then it needs to be pursued. Personally i think that other teams will come up with a better offer than the B's are willing to part with. Teams like the Stars, Canes, Kings, Wild etc, i bet even Captain Lou makes a call to get him to the Islanders. Donnie hasn't been afraid to make moves at the deadline but the package to get Horvat might be too steep. Bruins could match young really good NHL players with those teams. But Donny only has two stud prospects Lysell and Lohrei. Bs do have DeBrusk and Swayman to dangle. So it really depends on what package Rutherford wants. Those teams can match DeBrusk and Swayman ?
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Post by 50belowzero on Jan 24, 2023 22:49:45 GMT
Personally i think that other teams will come up with a better offer than the B's are willing to part with. Teams like the Stars, Canes, Kings, Wild etc, i bet even Captain Lou makes a call to get him to the Islanders. Donnie hasn't been afraid to make moves at the deadline but the package to get Horvat might be too steep. Bruins could match young really good NHL players with those teams. But Donny only has two stud prospects Lysell and Lohrei. Bs do have DeBrusk and Swayman to dangle. So it really depends on what package Rutherford wants. Those teams can match DeBrusk and Swayman ? Maybe, Canes could dangle Jarvis and a 1st for example, he's a C and could slot in because Horvat is gone, only 20 yrs. I would have to look at thee other teams prospects and players but i'm sure they could match what the B's have. It's not that i don't think the B's have the players or prospects to make a deal, it's that i don't think that Sweeney would pull the trigger. I mean he was able to get Lindholm from the Ducks for Vaakanainen, Moore, a 1st rder and 2 2nd rdrs, what a steal. If Donnie could pull off a similar deal sure but i don't think he can do it for as cheap, other teams will top that.
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Post by The OC on Jan 24, 2023 23:04:23 GMT
Part of the question is, too, how badly do the Bruins need to make the deal VS other teams? Boston is clearly a level above everyone else, but other teams like CAR and NYR have committed to trying to win now as well. They are more motivated to make a deal, since they need to to be in consideration with the Bruins.
I think dealing Swayman or DeBrusk for Horvat would be a net negative for the team, and I don't think they will. Having depth at goal is extremely valuable in the playoffs if you can, and Swayman's cheep. What DeBrusk brings to the team is more valuable than Horvat, given they have PB, DK, Coyle and Zacha that can fill in if needed at C. Jake has speed and finish off the wing that keeps teams on their heals.
And again, if you're making this deal for next year, just sign him as a UFA. Make it known to the league the the best team in history will be willing to pay big for a C in the off season. Who wouldn't want to come in and play #1C on a team with the best set of wings, D and G on the planet? Keeping JDB and Swayman and the top prospects is part of that pitch.
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Post by beezfan4life on Jan 24, 2023 23:07:41 GMT
If I were Donny this team really only needs 2 things , A depth Defenseman with some snarl , Luke Schenn would be my choice , and some beef on the 4th line , I wouldn't mess with the top 6 ... its anybodys guess what he's gonna do though
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Post by mdsizzle on Jan 24, 2023 23:59:49 GMT
Part of the question is, too, how badly do the Bruins need to make the deal VS other teams? Boston is clearly a level above everyone else, but other teams like CAR and NYR have committed to trying to win now as well. They are more motivated to make a deal, since they need to to be in consideration with the Bruins. I think dealing Swayman or DeBrusk for Horvat would be a net negative for the team, and I don't think they will. Having depth at goal is extremely valuable in the playoffs if you can, and Swayman's cheep. What DeBrusk brings to the team is more valuable than Horvat, given they have PB, DK, Coyle and Zacha that can fill in if needed at C. Jake has speed and finish off the wing that keeps teams on their heals. And again, if you're making this deal for next year, just sign him as a UFA. Make it known to the league the the best team in history will be willing to pay big for a C in the off season. Who wouldn't want to come in and play #1C on a team with the best set of wings, D and G on the planet? Keeping JDB and Swayman and the top prospects is part of that pitch. The thought of losing one of the two heads of our two headed monster doesn't give me warm fuzzies inside. I really think that our goalie situation right now is greater than the sum of its parts. Having said that, I really think DS needs to go for it in order to do anything he can to make the team better and get the cup... Assuming they make the playo.... Lol... Ya, I think they will sneak in with relative confidence. I really just think that DS can't do nothing and not get absofuckinglutely destroyed if they don't get the cup... Ya, lots of negatives there, hoping I put the right amount in... Window closing, historically good team and all, he needs to seal the mother effing deal and leave it all out there. And if he can do that AND get a center for the future, that's a win win. With that being said, again, this may be the first year where if they do a grand total of dittily bupkis at the the end of the deadline.. I'm OK with that as far as this year is concerned.
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