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Post by bookboy007 on Dec 12, 2023 18:10:08 GMT
The thing about TT's amazing highlight reel saves that is never mentioned,is the reason they were amazing highlight reel saves . It was because he was so out of position he had to scramble or dive back to make the save. He certainly wasn't an economically sound goalie, made way too much work for himself. Also because of his personal antics off the ice he sabotaged his last season with the B's and for that matter the rest of his career. There's no question that TT came from a different school of goaltending (if he had any schooling or style at all). But you have to give him credit that he got the results, won two Vezinas, one Jennings with Manny Fernandez, the Conn Smythe and a cup, plus three All-Star games in a row. In the four games he won in the 2011 SCF, he gave up 3 goals (and had two shutouts); in the entire series he gave up only 8 goals while his counterpart Roberto "It's an easy save for me" Luongo, a way more technically sound netminder than TT, let in 20. The White House routine was, as I had said before, very unprofessional - not because he didn't show up, but because he had to rub it into everyone's eyes that he hadn't shown up. That was supremely selfish. I'm still convinced that the B's would have done considerably more damage in the 2012 playoffs without TT's soapbox gymnastics.There’s a general point here, too, about 2012 and Danny’s point that Thomas shut out the ‘nucks and Bolts in game 7s that year. He also gave up shitty series ending goals in game 7s to Scott Walker and Joel Ward. 2011 was bottled lightning compared to his other playoffs.
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Post by bookboy007 on Dec 12, 2023 20:00:30 GMT
...And I think that's more than a TT thing; it's a general principle and something that, I think, lies behind the legends of players like Brodeur and Roy most recently, and the Drydens, Parents, Plantes, Bowers in generations past. Very few goalies get to these moments of truth where they even have a chance to prove that they're the kind of goalie who can get you over the hump. Almost every goalie fails far more than they succeed in actually making not just the one more save...sometimes it's 30 more saves to give up one less goal and win one more game. The goalies who do it multiple times at the highest level? Rare, rare, rare. Practically unicorns.
Recently, the only goalie with even a shot at that kind of pedigree is Vagisilievskiy; before that, you could make a case for Crawford and for Quick, and maybe Osgood though that will be painful for some - and then you're into the Roy/Brodeur era. Hill, Kuemper, Binnington, Holtby, Murray...nope. JF Giantpads? No. Richter? No. Then it's Fuhr. Smith. Dryden. Parent. And now you're pre-expansion. So if you're being super-inclusive, you've got maybe 10 goals in the last 56 years who you can say are "the kind of goalie" who makes the saves in game 7 when the chips are on the line. Everyone else might have done it once, like Timmy, but couldn't replicate it to show that it's about them and not kismet and being in the right place at the right time time (Antti Rantta...).
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Post by dannycater on Dec 12, 2023 20:49:59 GMT
Quick did it twice and Crawford too...you got to give them credit for that. Like I said, super hard to win the Cup....it's just fucking hard and Hockey Gods, and puck luck, and things going your way, and making big saves when it matters...all of it comes into play....with that said, I think Rask was better than Crawford and certainly Rask was one of the greats--just didn't go his way in 13 and 19 at the very end. Quick was on another level like TT was in 11--Quick certainly has to be considered in the class of all-time greats. I think Lundqvist was an all-time great too--and he didn't even sniff what Rask had.
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Post by MrHulot on Dec 13, 2023 19:51:05 GMT
The big difference was that TT was already 37 years old when the B's won the cup.
Could he have won another cup? I think it was certainly not impossible. IMHO the Bruins were good enough to go all the way in 2012. The question is if he wasn't good enough to do it again, or if his soapbox gymnastics had caused too much friction within the team. Book may be right, though; TT had one good year with three game 7 wins (vs. Shabs, Bolts and Nucks), but never won another game 7.
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Post by MrHulot on Dec 13, 2023 19:57:40 GMT
...And I think that's more than a TT thing; it's a general principle and something that, I think, lies behind the legends of players like Brodeur and Roy most recently, and the Drydens, Parents, Plantes, Bowers in generations past. Very few goalies get to these moments of truth where they even have a chance to prove that they're the kind of goalie who can get you over the hump. Almost every goalie fails far more than they succeed in actually making not just the one more save...sometimes it's 30 more saves to give up one less goal and win one more game. The goalies who do it multiple times at the highest level? Rare, rare, rare. Practically unicorns. Recently, the only goalie with even a shot at that kind of pedigree is Vagisilievskiy; before that, you could make a case for Crawford and for Quick, and maybe Osgood though that will be painful for some - and then you're into the Roy/Brodeur era. Hill, Kuemper, Binnington, Holtby, Murray...nope. JF Giantpads? No. Richter? No. Then it's Fuhr. Smith. Dryden. Parent. And now you're pre-expansion. So if you're being super-inclusive, you've got maybe 10 goals in the last 56 years who you can say are "the kind of goalie" who makes the saves in game 7 when the chips are on the line. Everyone else might have done it once, like Timmy, but couldn't replicate it to show that it's about them and not kismet and being in the right place at the right time time (Antti Rantta...). I think you wanted to refer to Antti Niemi (2010 Blackhawks), not Rantta. (Niemi was the first Finnish goalie to win the cup. I wonder what would have happened if the Bruins had beaten the Flyers...)
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Post by bookboy007 on Dec 13, 2023 20:01:11 GMT
...And I think that's more than a TT thing; it's a general principle and something that, I think, lies behind the legends of players like Brodeur and Roy most recently, and the Drydens, Parents, Plantes, Bowers in generations past. Very few goalies get to these moments of truth where they even have a chance to prove that they're the kind of goalie who can get you over the hump. Almost every goalie fails far more than they succeed in actually making not just the one more save...sometimes it's 30 more saves to give up one less goal and win one more game. The goalies who do it multiple times at the highest level? Rare, rare, rare. Practically unicorns. Recently, the only goalie with even a shot at that kind of pedigree is Vagisilievskiy; before that, you could make a case for Crawford and for Quick, and maybe Osgood though that will be painful for some - and then you're into the Roy/Brodeur era. Hill, Kuemper, Binnington, Holtby, Murray...nope. JF Giantpads? No. Richter? No. Then it's Fuhr. Smith. Dryden. Parent. And now you're pre-expansion. So if you're being super-inclusive, you've got maybe 10 goals in the last 56 years who you can say are "the kind of goalie" who makes the saves in game 7 when the chips are on the line. Everyone else might have done it once, like Timmy, but couldn't replicate it to show that it's about them and not kismet and being in the right place at the right time time (Antti Rantta...). I think you wanted to refer to Antti Niemi (2010 Blackhawks), not Rantta. (Niemi was the first Finnish goalie to win the cup. I wonder what would have happened if the Bruins had beaten the Flyers...)I get confused my Antti matters.
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Post by MrHulot on Dec 13, 2023 20:07:30 GMT
Quick did it twice and Crawford too...you got to give them credit for that. Like I said, super hard to win the Cup....it's just fucking hard and Hockey Gods, and puck luck, and things going your way, and making big saves when it matters...all of it comes into play....with that said, I think Rask was better than Crawford and certainly Rask was one of the greats--just didn't go his way in 13 and 19 at the very end. Quick was on another level like TT was in 11--Quick certainly has to be considered in the class of all-time greats. I think Lundqvist was an all-time great too--and he didn't even sniff what Rask had. Quick and Crawford were money goalies in their prime. Money goalies will win the big game. Money goalies don't give up 2 goals in the dying minutes of a SCF game. The one thing Tuukka never did IMHO was carry the team on his back for a prolonged period of time. A very talented goalie who could never win the big game. I think the B's don't win game 2 against the Flyers in 2011 after being 2-0 down after 10 minutes with Tuukka in goal. TT made 52 saves that night.
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Post by MrHulot on Dec 13, 2023 20:10:37 GMT
I think you wanted to refer to Antti Niemi (2010 Blackhawks), not Rantta. (Niemi was the first Finnish goalie to win the cup. I wonder what would have happened if the Bruins had beaten the Flyers...) I get confused my Antti matters. No problem. But it would have been nice, two Finns in goal (the Bruins would have had to beat the Shabs in the Conference finals). If the B's had won that year, TT would have had even more of a mountain to climb to get his starter position back.
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Post by bookboy007 on Dec 13, 2023 20:44:14 GMT
The big difference was that TT was already 37 years old when the B's won the cup.
Could he have won another cup? I think it was certainly not impossible. IMHO the Bruins were good enough to go all the way in 2012. The question is if he wasn't good enough to do it again, or if his soapbox gymnastics had caused too much friction within the team. Book may be right, though; TT had one good year with three game 7 wins (vs. Shabs, Bolts and Nucks), but never won another game 7.
I think it's connected to the new guy who loves vintage goalie masks...unlike the other guy who loves vintage goalie masks...wait.... Thomas's 'style' puts him in the category of some other gymnastic goalies like Hasek, Joseph, vanBiesbrouck, Palmateer...guys who played a style that, when they were on, they were more difficult to beat than most technically sound goalies. The best of them had such great anticipation and the ability to read the play, and they found ways to maximize their ability to go from unusual point A to unusual point B no matter how great the pass or bizarre the tip or rebound. But as goalie mask guy pointed out, half the time they bailed out problems of their own creation, and when the Josephs or van Biesbroucks looked awful, it was because the pendulum swung the other way. Teams figured them out. That style is always at risk of having an awful game rather than a great one because so much depends on making plays on the puck rather than controlling the net and limiting what people have to shoot at. Not as easy to catch a puck that could go in anywhere on the full cage as to take away most of the cage and know that you probably only have to move to make a save in two or three areas where there's daylight. I think that's why the acrobats have so few Cups compared the athletic goalies who also played a more controlled style. Quick at his best was just as good at anticipation and covering groud, but played sort of a hybrid style that reminded me of Brodeur's ability to always seem a half step ahead of the play. Similar large, physical, defensively stout teams in front of them, too.
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Post by davinator on Dec 15, 2023 3:29:09 GMT
It was great how so many good NHL goalies seemed to either finish their careers as a B or very late in their careers, including Jacques Plante, Terry Sawchuk, Rogie Vachon, Manny Fernandez, Felix Potvin. Two of these things...are not like the others.... Ok, I'll play...let's see...oh, oh! I say Fernandez and Sawchuk. The other guys are French-Canadians....
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Post by The OC on Dec 15, 2023 4:01:08 GMT
Matt. Gryzlick.
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Post by dannycater on Dec 15, 2023 21:56:24 GMT
Globe and Monty are all but sucking his cock right now..why I have no idea.
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Post by The OC on Dec 15, 2023 22:20:56 GMT
Globe and Monty are all but sucking his cock right now..why I have no idea. Pump tires for trade?!?
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Post by dannycater on Dec 15, 2023 22:28:28 GMT
Globe and Monty are all but sucking his cock right now..why I have no idea. Pump tires for trade?!? We need Tim Thomas to successfully pump the tires.
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Post by thanx4memORRies on Dec 15, 2023 22:55:11 GMT
Two of these things...are not like the others.... Ok, I'll play...let's see...oh, oh! I say Fernandez and Sawchuk. The other guys are French-Canadians.... Actually, Fernandez is half French Canadian…. He’s also Jacques-trap Lemaire’s nephew….
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Post by mdsizzle on Dec 16, 2023 21:16:51 GMT
We need Tim Thomas to successfully pump the tires. He's still pumping away at that giant flat tire... Aka Leaky Lou.
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Post by MrHulot on Dec 16, 2023 21:24:41 GMT
We need Tim Thomas to successfully pump the tires. He's still pumping away at that giant flat tire... Aka Leaky Lou. "It's an easy save for me..."
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Post by MrHulot on Dec 16, 2023 21:25:33 GMT
Where is the "I like this post a hundred times" button?
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Post by bookboy007 on Dec 17, 2023 19:30:44 GMT
I think they do this sometimes ehen the temp of fan displeasure rises too high. Smooth it out. Unless they started it and then it's collect your shovels and pitchforks at the Dunkin' on Harbourside.
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Post by MrHulot on Dec 18, 2023 23:46:43 GMT
Globe and Monty are all but sucking his cock right now..why I have no idea. I don't know either, but it seems like everybody is looking for a reason to sing Grzelcyk's praises, like Jack Edwards during one game, "he's so good with his stick", oh yeah, wonderful, Jack, but what about the stupid giveaways and his being over-matched in the B's own end? Is this the new woke, support your local worst defenseman?
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Post by dannycater on Dec 20, 2023 13:22:51 GMT
Get off my team....74,48.
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Post by Fletcher on Dec 20, 2023 15:19:11 GMT
Get off my team....74,48. I'm still holding out with some reluctance to be finished with Grizz, because I think he's in kind of a tough spot -- playing heavy minutes at defense on a team with significant injuries to the usual ranks (and missing the centers that have led on team defense in past years too). He has not looked good, but he has a tough assignment most nights. That cannot be said for Debrusk, who has just become an utter disappointment in more games than not. He just doesn't seem like he cares to get his hands dirty, and is among the least noticeable players in most games. I'm all out of sympathy and reasoning. I know the Bruins need to be patient from an asset management perspective and try to maximize value, but frankly, it would be refreshing to see Merkulov (or whomever) is his place for a few games at least. Debrusk will likely continue to have his ebbs and flows, and at times will look like a good forward, but it's just too hard to wait out the long gaps of 70% efforts between the good surges.
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Post by dannycater on Dec 20, 2023 17:20:38 GMT
Get off my team....74,48. I'm still holding out with some reluctance to be finished with Grizz, because I think he's in kind of a tough spot -- playing heavy minutes at defense on a team with significant injuries to the usual ranks (and missing the centers that have led on team defense in past years too). He has not looked good, but he has a tough assignment most nights. That cannot be said for Debrusk, who has just become an utter disappointment in more games than not. He just doesn't seem like he cares to get his hands dirty, and is among the least noticeable players in most games. I'm all out of sympathy and reasoning. I know the Bruins need to be patient from an asset management perspective and try to maximize value, but frankly, it would be refreshing to see Merkulov (or whomever) is his place for a few games at least. Debrusk will likely continue to have his ebbs and flows, and at times will look like a good forward, but it's just too hard to wait out the long gaps of 70% efforts between the good surges. But Gryz doesn't have to play heavy minutes at all...Lohrei should take his minutes, and frankly so should Wotherspoon. That would solve that issue...I'll take the mistakes by Lohrei and the so far better heavier checking play of Wotherspoon (watch his hit on Johanssen). Yes, 73 out he was put in a tough spot, but 73 i is back and 28 has already been replaced...so bu-bye 48.
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Post by badhabitude on Dec 20, 2023 17:38:19 GMT
Get off my team....74,48. I'm still holding out with some reluctance to be finished with Grizz, because I think he's in kind of a tough spot -- playing heavy minutes at defense on a team with significant injuries to the usual ranks (and missing the centers that have led on team defense in past years too). He has not looked good, but he has a tough assignment most nights. That cannot be said for Debrusk, who has just become an utter disappointment in more games than not. He just doesn't seem like he cares to get his hands dirty, and is among the least noticeable players in most games. I'm all out of sympathy and reasoning. I know the Bruins need to be patient from an asset management perspective and try to maximize value, but frankly, it would be refreshing to see Merkulov (or whomever) is his place for a few games at least. Debrusk will likely continue to have his ebbs and flows, and at times will look like a good forward, but it's just too hard to wait out the long gaps of 70% efforts between the good surges. JDB might get hot - and then everyone forgets. But I hope not. That Islander playoff series loss still sticks in my craw. No matter what, you give it your all no matter who is coaching.
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Post by dannycater on Dec 20, 2023 18:00:49 GMT
I'm still holding out with some reluctance to be finished with Grizz, because I think he's in kind of a tough spot -- playing heavy minutes at defense on a team with significant injuries to the usual ranks (and missing the centers that have led on team defense in past years too). He has not looked good, but he has a tough assignment most nights. That cannot be said for Debrusk, who has just become an utter disappointment in more games than not. He just doesn't seem like he cares to get his hands dirty, and is among the least noticeable players in most games. I'm all out of sympathy and reasoning. I know the Bruins need to be patient from an asset management perspective and try to maximize value, but frankly, it would be refreshing to see Merkulov (or whomever) is his place for a few games at least. Debrusk will likely continue to have his ebbs and flows, and at times will look like a good forward, but it's just too hard to wait out the long gaps of 70% efforts between the good surges. JDB might get hot - and then everyone forgets. But I hope not. That Islander playoff series loss still sticks in my craw. No matter what, you give it your all no matter who is coaching. Might get hot and will get hot...2 different things entirely.
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