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Post by pletchner on Mar 5, 2024 0:05:00 GMT
And yet I still make fewer dumb passes than Pasta does. Imagine that! He'll score and make it all better. Yep. More likely than not. But think how awesome it’d be without the stupid plays! He is who he is, and who he is is a pretty darned good hockey player. And he’s entertaining, too.
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Post by MrHulot on Mar 5, 2024 3:10:49 GMT
If he played side by side with Draisitl or McDavid in an 82-game schedule he'd shatter records for points. Draisaitl for Pastrnak. Who says no? Holland or Sweeney? [trick question - the answer is M. Hulot] I actually suggested that trade very early this season. But since I have a feeling that Lousy Mood Leon would not be a good fit on the B's roster, I also later declared that I want no part of him.
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Post by MrHulot on Mar 5, 2024 3:12:57 GMT
PASTA GOOD!!!! BOOK BAD!!!! That's a direct quote from Pan Pastrnak - unfortunately his English language skills are not quite up to the level of his one-timer...
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Post by MrHulot on Mar 5, 2024 3:16:02 GMT
so actual fans do like Pasta...3 out of 4 prefer Crest too. I prefer Pepsodent (hard to get though).
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Post by dannycater on Mar 5, 2024 3:21:12 GMT
so actual fans do like Pasta...3 out of 4 prefer Crest too. I prefer Pepsodent (hard to get though).I have to use a Colgate whitener....sucks to get old
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Post by The OC on Mar 5, 2024 3:30:04 GMT
I prefer Pepsodent (hard to get though). I have to use a Colgate whitener....sucks to get old Colgate ftw!!
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Post by dannycater on Mar 5, 2024 3:35:58 GMT
Also to be clear, Hulot, Markwart, Plech are among the finest on this board...so not personal, but don't agree on your criticism of 88
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Post by dannycater on Mar 5, 2024 4:28:05 GMT
88 has 36 points more than the next highest scoring B--Marchand...Root Beer got a G/A tonight to give him 61 less points than 88.
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Post by dannycater on Mar 5, 2024 4:29:43 GMT
Really watch 88's passes tonight...his setups were sick great.
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Post by dannycater on Mar 5, 2024 4:30:43 GMT
How did Bertuzzi do tonight? Then ask me how good Bert would be if Pasta was his linemate? This is exactly why 88 is so good....Bertuzzi's best hockey would be playing with 88, not with all the bells/whistles of Toronto linemates
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Post by dannycater on Mar 5, 2024 4:31:18 GMT
How do I like my Pasta? Like tonight, fantastique.
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Post by Lord Markwart on Mar 5, 2024 5:02:49 GMT
88 has 36 points more than the next highest scoring B--Marchand...Root Beer got a G/A tonight to give him 61 less points than 88. That's great and all Danny but this also provides one of the easiest recipes for playoff teams to shut down the Bruins. A more balanced attack will be needed if the Bruins want to beat legit playoff teams with shut down defenders and physical forwards. Pasta was al dente tonight..no doubt about that.
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Post by MrHulot on Mar 5, 2024 5:21:01 GMT
Also to be clear, Hulot, Markwart, Plech are among the finest on this board...so not personal, but don't agree on your criticism of 88 Thank you, Danny. But I never took this personal anyway. Now if there's a reference in a post insinuating the guys who dare to criticize Pastrnak are "idiots" or "stupid", or if someone calls me "delusional", that's a bit different - but I think I know what Chappy or DoubleOC are trying to say, and they have been such valuable contributors here (and besides, I think I can dish it out quite "nicely" too), that I don't want to escalate this.
Again, I would love #88 (& his buddy "robot" wearing #18) to prove me wrong.
I was very critical back in the day of Andrew Ference, and when Chiarells gave him an extension and a raise, I was not amused, to put it mildly. But I would totally love to own a #21 Ference jersey, because, boy, did he prove me wrong. (The famous "equipment malfunction" should have won an Oscar for the best short movie.) And I said almost two years ago that Linus Ullmark will only end up as a Wasa crisp bread finalist, never a Vezina finalist. And the following season he had one for the ages (except for his playoffs stubbornness) and wins the Vezina. Still looking for Wasa crisp bread in crow flavor...
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Post by The OC on Mar 5, 2024 5:58:19 GMT
Also to be clear, Hulot, Markwart, Plech are among the finest on this board...so not personal, but don't agree on your criticism of 88 Thank you, Danny. But I never took this personal anyway. Now if there's a reference in a post insinuating the guys who dare to criticize Pastrnak are "idiots" or "stupid", or if someone calls me "delusional", that's a bit different - but I think I know what Chappy or DoubleOC are trying to say, and they have been such valuable contributors here (and besides, I think I can dish it out quite "nicely" too), that I don't want to escalate this.
Again, I would love #88 (& his buddy "robot" wearing #18) to prove me wrong.
I was very critical back in the day of Andrew Ference, and when Chiarells gave him an extension and a raise, I was not amused, to put it mildly. But I would totally love to own a #21 Ference jersey, because, boy, did he prove me wrong. (The famous "equipment malfunction" should have won an Oscar for the best short movie.) And I said almost two years ago that Linus Ullmark will only end up as a Wasa crisp bread finalist, never a Vezina finalist. And the following season he had one for the ages (except for his playoffs stubbornness) and wins the Vezina. Still looking for Wasa crisp bread in crow flavor...I love you even though you're delusional.
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Post by dannycater on Mar 5, 2024 6:23:48 GMT
It's warped that a guy with 90 points is getting treated as if he's a problem on this team...Look guys, I know I'm the over-reactor, but jesus, this is beyond what I do. I think it's asinine now. It's borderline stupidity by good fans. If he doesn't do what he does almost every game, this team has no chance...none
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Post by chappy28 on Mar 5, 2024 14:24:32 GMT
Also to be clear, Hulot, Markwart, Plech are among the finest on this board...so not personal, but don't agree on your criticism of 88 Thank you, Danny. But I never took this personal anyway. Now if there's a reference in a post insinuating the guys who dare to criticize Pastrnak are "idiots" or "stupid", or if someone calls me "delusional", that's a bit different - but I think I know what Chappy or DoubleOC are trying to say, and they have been such valuable contributors here (and besides, I think I can dish it out quite "nicely" too), that I don't want to escalate this.
Again, I would love #88 (& his buddy "robot" wearing #18) to prove me wrong.
I was very critical back in the day of Andrew Ference, and when Chiarells gave him an extension and a raise, I was not amused, to put it mildly. But I would totally love to own a #21 Ference jersey, because, boy, did he prove me wrong. (The famous "equipment malfunction" should have won an Oscar for the best short movie.) And I said almost two years ago that Linus Ullmark will only end up as a Wasa crisp bread finalist, never a Vezina finalist. And the following season he had one for the ages (except for his playoffs stubbornness) and wins the Vezina. Still looking for Wasa crisp bread in crow flavor...All in good fun sir. We all take our digs here and there on various topics we decide to engage in. Apologies for the personal jabs. And yes, using hyperbole and jabs to help make the point. Love the back and forth on this board whether to agree, disagree, or just hop on a soapbox every now and again and ramble on about a topic. Pasta's the greatest btw!
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Post by pletchner on Mar 5, 2024 14:40:50 GMT
Also to be clear, Hulot, Markwart, Plech are among the finest on this board...so not personal, but don't agree on your criticism of 88 So you don't agree that he makes stupid plays and looses the puck trying to be cute at times? That's not so much a criticism as just watching him play. You aren't suggesting he doesn't do that, are you? The issue to me is whether the Bs are better off with what he brings despite him doing those dumb things - with the answer being an unequivocal, "Of course they are!" I love Pasta. But he makes some dumb plays. And yes, those dumb plays are waaaay down the list of B's problems.
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Post by dannycater on Mar 5, 2024 15:31:05 GMT
Also to be clear, Hulot, Markwart, Plech are among the finest on this board...so not personal, but don't agree on your criticism of 88 So you don't agree that he makes stupid plays and looses the puck trying to be cute at times? That's not so much a criticism as just watching him play. You aren't suggesting he doesn't do that, are you? The issue to me is whether the Bs are better off with what he brings despite him doing those dumb things - with the answer being an unequivocal, "Of course they are!" I love Pasta. But he makes some dumb plays. And yes, those dumb plays are waaaay down the list of B's problems. Every NHL player makes dumb plays, and if you are on the ice 18 to 20 minutes a game, it's going to happen, and you are also going to have weak games--Nylander, Matthews, Marner did nothing yesterday--you think the Leafs fans are saying "stop being so cute, and I'm tired of these overpaid guys who make poor passes or are beaten off the puck."...they probably do. Plech, I just think this is a hill worth climbing...honestly, the guy has 90 points and if you can't see how great he is like he was v. a really good team yesterday, then I really don't know what more to say.
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Post by Lord Markwart on Mar 5, 2024 15:39:12 GMT
It's warped that a guy with 90 points is getting treated as if he's a problem on this team...Look guys, I know I'm the over-reactor, but jesus, this is beyond what I do. I think it's asinine now. It's borderline stupidity by good fans. If he doesn't do what he does almost every game, this team has no chance...none Plenty of hockey teams I have been a part of where our highest point guy was either a primadonna or an asshole or BOTH. Not saying that is the case here, but leadership comes in a variety of different flavors and to say that all warts are forgiven due to high point totals is also asinine and borderline stupid.
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Post by dannycater on Mar 5, 2024 16:14:07 GMT
It's warped that a guy with 90 points is getting treated as if he's a problem on this team...Look guys, I know I'm the over-reactor, but jesus, this is beyond what I do. I think it's asinine now. It's borderline stupidity by good fans. If he doesn't do what he does almost every game, this team has no chance...none Plenty of hockey teams I have been a part of where our highest point guy was either a primadonna or an asshole or BOTH. Not saying that is the case here, but leadership comes in a variety of different flavors and to say that all warts are forgiven due to high point totals is also asinine and borderline stupid. Jesus, but Pasta is not any of those things...I just can't do this anymore...You know what you, Hulot, and Plech win...he is the worst 90-point scorer, prima donna, me-me player with no centers in the history of the NHL...you win.
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Post by dannycater on Mar 5, 2024 16:40:46 GMT
You know what...I'll try one more time...he plays against every team's top defenders/top d guys, he is checked and hit by opponents, almost targeted--like the time one guy threw him into the post on a breakaway attempt. He runs both the #1 and #2 PP...he has no center...did I mention he plays without a center...You all want the rah-rah, fake team guys like Nick Foligno, who couldn't make the lineup for game 7 v. Florida or maybe you prefer the Laukos, nice kid, works hard, and is a team guy...Okay. He has 90 points and he doesn't have a center. His teammates love him, he has taken on a bigger role because there are 37/46 to turn to late in games. He has helped the B's to one of the top 3 teams in the NHL in points. He did that, not it was the team's entire output...no, he is responsible for the team's position..and he's a legitimate Hart Trophy candidate....for his great shooting talents, he is without a doubt one of the NHL's best passers...last game alone showed that ability.
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Post by stevegm on Mar 5, 2024 16:44:02 GMT
pasta had a great game last night, given the high expectations night in and night out, his performance was above his norms.
I was expecting some gotchya comments because of that.
I think the criticisms are fair. I think the interpretation of those criticisms is the issue. pasta is our most talented, game changing forward. no one is arguing that. personally, I feel he can still accomplish everything he's capable of, offensively, while cutting down his awareness gaffs, which often are quite head scratching for a player of his ilk.
same with debrusk and zacha. both were on last night, and were difference makers. neither are on a same level comparable to Pasta. that shouldn't need stated. pasta's probably at 88% of his personal ceiling as a hockey player. Zacha and Jake...50something? But imo, the comparable is that all can elevate overall, without subtracting somewhere else. Only really talented players can do that, and it's why they are, and should be held to a higher standard.
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Post by bookboy007 on Mar 5, 2024 17:01:27 GMT
Look, take Pasta out of this lineup and the team would be struggling for a wild card position, or need to shut the other team out almost every night. That's just reality. Wanna know why he has so many giveaways or does what seems to be crazy high risk things? Look who he is fucking playing with most nights. Jake "one foot out the door "Debrusk and Pavel "the robot without a soul" Zacha. Move him to Marchand and Coyle that is only marginally better. So, the counter-theory is the team can use his bloated salary to get two, perhaps three NHL regulars. Sure, great. More JDB's and Zachas....and the team loses a pile of skill and still will be challenged to score. Once again, fighting for a wild card spot if they are lucky. Best case scenario, get Pasta some actual high end talent he can play with and pass to without other teams simply pressuring him and rubbing him out (yes I went there), knowing he is playing with stiffs. Fin BOOK STILL BAD You hate me now, but you'll learn to love me later. Or loathe me. It's like that 'what colour is the dress' thing. First, the "take him out and this team would suck!" argument is a red herring. No one is saying they should Sturm him or that it would somehow be addition by subtraction to move him out. That's an absurd take. Second, if this is about Book being BAAAD...little of this actually addresses my point. I basically compared him to the best offensive players in the league and the numbers show he is a dominant player. No matter how much you might dislike the style he uses to dominate, he's dominant. I, at least, am not contesting this because I never trust gut reactions to how players play when the evidence suggests something contrary (see Grz's +/-). But the fact that he makes $11M+ means that his dominance isn't some sort of surplus value to what they are paying to get from him. When he was making less than $7M, sure, I guess you could say that a couple of weeks in the dog days where he doesn't look like he cares is fair trade. But honestly, if the team is built to accommodate his $11M salary - if a key reason they DON'T have an elite C for him to play with is the size of his salary - then he is the first place I'm looking when the team is on a skid. Not the 5-6D or the 4th liners who play 1/6th of the game. And it feels like 90% of people criticizing Bruin players this season have been guys who have very little opportunity to influence the results and no statistical evidence that they're the reason for inadequate results. Instead we get contortions of logic about how Lauko's lack of offense makes Montgomery play Pastrnak too much so he gets tired and that's why he's played with all the energy of someone with Lupus all of February. The one part of this that does address my point (recognizing that M. Hulot is the one with the biggest ax to grind here) is related to the question of roster construction. Again, my point is that the very best tandems of high end cookie monsters have been among the most embarrassing and disappointing teams in the league. There's a clear and observable pattern that the Bruins - with both Pastrnak and Marchand in the top 15 scorers over the last 5 years - have fallen into along with Edmonton and Colorado and Toronto and, prior to last season, Florida. The teams with a tandem of elite scorers get boxed by physical teams with strong defensive structure and depth in the playoffs. The only exceptions have been Tampa - who needed arguably the best goaltender in the league and to use LTIR to cover the salaries of acquisitions that actually made THEM they physical team with depth and defensive structure, and Colorado, who had a similar explosion of depth that was unsustainable in a Cap world, and then went back to being a playoff disappointment. And they have, in addition to the big two scorers, arguably the best offensive defenseman since Paul Coffey. Pretty boy scoring just doesn't win in the playoffs. The 2011 Bruins won despite not having a player on the roster who scored more than 30 goals or 62 points, though. So boiling down a roster construction issue to "move out Pastrnak for three stiffs who can't score" is a failure of imagination. They could do a lot that's very different, and moving down the same road they're currently on (elite D, size up front, net-front scoring)...but it would be a lot harder to do because they've been victimized by the pattern above and it cost them a lot of their future to try and get over the hump the way Tampa and Colorado did. But no one is saying you should move him for two Zachas and boom, instacup. I don't see any path where this team is better without Pastrnak. But saying he's immune to criticism for below standard play is just a red flag for me. I think star-fucking in any sport is usually a bad sign.
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Post by bookboy007 on Mar 5, 2024 17:03:18 GMT
You know what...I'll try one more time...he plays against every team's top defenders/top d guys, he is checked and hit by opponents, almost targeted--like the time one guy threw him into the post on a breakaway attempt. He runs both the #1 and #2 PP...he has no center...did I mention he plays without a center...You all want the rah-rah, fake team guys like Nick Foligno, who couldn't make the lineup for game 7 v. Florida or maybe you prefer the Laukos, nice kid, works hard, and is a team guy...Okay. He has 90 points and he doesn't have a center. His teammates love him, he has taken on a bigger role because there are 37/46 to turn to late in games. He has helped the B's to one of the top 3 teams in the NHL in points. He did that, not it was the team's entire output...no, he is responsible for the team's position..and he's a legitimate Hart Trophy candidate....for his great shooting talents, he is without a doubt one of the NHL's best passers...last game alone showed that ability. That's right. The NHL is composed of two separate, yet equally important groups. The Pastrnaks, who score goals, and the Laukos who are nice kids who try hard. These are their stories.
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Post by stevegm on Mar 5, 2024 17:06:02 GMT
You know what...I'll try one more time...he plays against every team's top defenders/top d guys, he is checked and hit by opponents, almost targeted--like the time one guy threw him into the post on a breakaway attempt. He runs both the #1 and #2 PP...he has no center...did I mention he plays without a center...You all want the rah-rah, fake team guys like Nick Foligno, who couldn't make the lineup for game 7 v. Florida or maybe you prefer the Laukos, nice kid, works hard, and is a team guy...Okay. He has 90 points and he doesn't have a center. His teammates love him, he has taken on a bigger role because there are 37/46 to turn to late in games. He has helped the B's to one of the top 3 teams in the NHL in points. He did that, not it was the team's entire output...no, he is responsible for the team's position..and he's a legitimate Hart Trophy candidate....for his great shooting talents, he is without a doubt one of the NHL's best passers...last game alone showed that ability. I agree he's one of the absolute most legitimate Hart candidates. If goaltending, instead of goaltenders could be nominated though, I'd pick the latter. Don't think there's many rah rahs among us, getting head injuries from falling off Foligno's bandwagon. Last night? IMHO, although 88 had a great game, I think one could get seriously ahead of oneself trying to attribute too much to pastr as an individual. our guys played Bruin hockey. they wanted the puck more. they played better positionally. they minimized the strength and flow of the TO big dogs...and they were incredibly lucky. still, our guys were outshot, out face offed, outhit, blocked fewer shots. We took more penalties, had fewer takeaways and more giveaways. all this was overcome by luck and a hungrier, more determined, focused effort. the opposition can't help but be rattled when it's 3-0 after a couple. one teency bit of good fortune making it 2-1 in the second, and everything changes. But that's hockey, and that's why we can win a Cup if we get the right breaks in each series. The breaks that always go to the Stanley cup winner
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