|
Post by Lord Markwart on Mar 2, 2024 19:58:18 GMT
Since this topic has dominated recent game threads, I thought a breakout room was appropriate. I do not buy that this should not be discussed since he gets paid a premium, is an Assistant Captain, and should be held to the highest of standards.
I will start...
Should he be traded?...No, only if it was to get a bonafide #1 center.
Is he like other stars in the league?...Debatable. He is truly unique. Some put him with Kucherov as a winger but Kucherov has won 2 Cups, has been league MVP, and has better vision. Maybe Ovechkin??-- this one is closer in terms of a great one timer but Ovie is physical less flashy and has won a Cup. Panarin might be the closest??? Maybe Kane in his prime as a winger but hard to argue against 3 Cups with Kane. Hard to compare him to the center position since responsibilities are so different so I am not going to. I was thinking of wings of the past and could only come up with Mogilny, Bure, or Selanne. Pasta is electric and he knows it.
How do you feel about his "entitlement" factor? Yes, he is high risk / high reward and there are players of his caliber like him...but I often wonder if he is the "highest" risk player in the league and does he gets too much license... to go for high risk instead of playing it safe. He also gets additional license to stay out for very long shifts. Both of these seem to go unpunished when it goes bad, so is he going to truly learn in these areas if "anything" goes without repercussions. I don't have an answer for this as I wouldn't want a "safe" Jacques Lemaire style coach as it makes the game suck...
Please discuss...but don't bring in the dumb plus/minus stat into it. Even Grizz has a high plus/minus.
|
|
|
Post by dannycater on Mar 2, 2024 20:40:42 GMT
No this is asinine...I am your biggest fan Lord (Hulot too, and we're going at it on same subject)...but Pasta is unbelievable on a team that is void consistent offense on a consistent basis..Geekie gets a hattie but that's after a long stretch of futility...Root Beer gets a goal/A in front of Daddy but has done nothing before or after...Marchand in a slump..Coyle except for a tip-in teetering in slumpville..JVR has his stretches of blank scoresheet..Heinen has been great and yet he hasn't done much lately...PASTA IS THE FUCKING GREATEST GODDAMN ASSET ON THE B'S..AND THE ONLY FUCKING REASON THEY ARE WHERE THEY ARE...ENOUGH. Pasta scores, and scores, and scores, and gets points and scores, and shoots, and passes and scores some more and no centers to set him up...So no, this is not worth discussing...
|
|
|
Post by 50belowzero on Mar 2, 2024 20:40:58 GMT
Pasta stays, case closed. The mention that he doesn't play a physical game is laughable, which is ok because i enjoy a good laugh. I'd get tired too if i had to carry an entire team in creating offence.
|
|
|
Post by #4 Bobby Orr! GOAT! on Mar 2, 2024 22:49:57 GMT
Pasta is elite yes. He used to backcheck with hustle, not anymore. He needs to be more of a complete player that he was 3 years ago. You can forgive some of his gaffs but it seems there is no care
|
|
|
Post by dannycater on Mar 2, 2024 23:10:28 GMT
I wish we had more 85-point scorers who didn't "care"
|
|
|
Post by jmwalters on Mar 2, 2024 23:33:38 GMT
The guy plays with pylons and still is top 5 in league scoring.
Maybe give him some help and watch him take it to another level.
|
|
|
Post by dannycater on Mar 2, 2024 23:39:46 GMT
I'm absolutely mystified by some of the fans on this board...just head-scratcher on this ripping of 88
|
|
|
Post by jmwalters on Mar 2, 2024 23:43:27 GMT
I'm absolutely mystified by some of the fans on this board...just head-scratcher on this ripping of 88 Yep, without 88 this team would have to get a shutout every game just to win
|
|
|
Post by dannycater on Mar 2, 2024 23:45:30 GMT
What's incredible is he is doing it without a center...find me another high scoring winger who has no center? Where?
|
|
|
Post by jmwalters on Mar 2, 2024 23:47:44 GMT
What's incredible is he is doing it without a center...find me another high scoring winger who has no center? Where? What he should be is in the running for the Hart. Has no Mcdavid or Point/Stamkos yet he is the sole flair of offense on a team with one of the best records in the NHL.
|
|
|
Post by dannycater on Mar 2, 2024 23:49:23 GMT
What's incredible is he is doing it without a center...find me another high scoring winger who has no center? Where? What he should be is in the running for the Hart. Has no Mcdavid or Point/Stamkos yet he is the sole flair of offense on a team with one of the best records in the NHL. the lack of MVP talk is incredible for what the team has accomplished...what's worse is the fans here have turned on him...and there's more outside this very intelligent group of fans in here.
|
|
|
Post by jmwalters on Mar 2, 2024 23:57:59 GMT
What he should be is in the running for the Hart. Has no Mcdavid or Point/Stamkos yet he is the sole flair of offense on a team with one of the best records in the NHL. the lack of MVP talk is incredible for what the team has accomplished...what's worse is the fans here have turned on him...and there's more outside this very intelligent group of fans in here. Almost disrespectful
|
|
|
Post by MrHulot on Mar 3, 2024 5:09:52 GMT
Since this topic has dominated recent game threads, I thought a breakout room was appropriate. I do not buy that this should not be discussed since he gets paid a premium, is an Assistant Captain, and should be held to the highest of standards. I will start... Should he be traded?...No, only if it was to get a bonafide #1 center. Is he like other stars in the league?...Debatable. He is truly unique. Some put him with Kucherov as a winger but Kucherov has won 2 Cups, has been league MVP, and has better vision. Maybe Ovechkin??-- this one is closer in terms of a great one timer but Ovie is physical less flashy and has won a Cup. Panarin might be the closest??? Maybe Kane in his prime as a winger but hard to argue against 3 Cups with Kane. Hard to compare him to the center position since responsibilities are so different so I am not going to. I was thinking of wings of the past and could only come up with Mogilny, Bure, or Selanne. Pasta is electric and he knows it. How do you feel about his "entitlement" factor? Yes, he is high risk / high reward and there are players of his caliber like him...but I often wonder if he is the "highest" risk player in the league and does he gets too much license... to go for high risk instead of playing it safe. He also gets additional license to stay out for very long shifts. Both of these seem to go unpunished when it goes bad, so is he going to truly learn in these areas if "anything" goes without repercussions. I don't have an answer for this as I wouldn't want a "safe" Jacques Lemaire style coach as it makes the game suck... Please discuss...but don't bring in the dumb plus/minus stat into it. Even Grizz has a high plus/minus. None of the guys mentioned would be where they are if they played like an entitled spoiled brat. Pastrfuck gets way too much license.
The Bruins will never win a cup with a spoiled brat as their #1 offensive option. Simple as that. And the organization's main objective should be to win a cup. Also as simple as that.
"But, but, but, we don't have anyone else on the roster who can score...", blahblahblah. "But, but, but, he's truly unique, he's elite, he's electric, he invented Penicillin, and he was the first man on the moon...", blahblahblah. You do not win anything when one of your alternate captains (who might end up being your captain in case of another Marchand suspension) is a lazy entitled spoiled brat.
It was a stupid idea to begin with to pay him the outrageous amount of money, it was even more stupid to pin an A on his jersey.
How elite is he? It's not like he's "he simply cannot be stopped" elite. And don't give me that "he doesn't have anybody to play with" bs either. How many cups have the B's won again with Pastrfuck being fed by way more responsible guys like Bergie or Krejc?
|
|
|
Post by MrHulot on Mar 3, 2024 5:39:20 GMT
Obviously a lot of people don't know that there's no "designated hitter" in hockey.
And what a lot of people apparently don't realize either is that the Bruins (or any other club) can only win the cup if they play as a team. Having a guy on your team who can basically play whatever he wants without any repercussions from the coaches is a very dangerous thing. And that guy is also supposed to be one of your team's leaders? Bad idea. Good night, Eileen.
Okay, it's bush league, but here we go anyway: The Frankfurt Lions tried that approach when they somehow pried away NHL centerman (and later Czechia national team captain for their gold medal win in the Nagano Olympics in 1998) Robert Reichel from the Calgary Flames for the 1995-96 DEL (German Hockey League) season. Reichel had spent part of the 1994-95 NHL lockout season with Frankfurt and totally dominated the league, which even caused a group of Lions fans (about 250) to charter a plane and attend a Flames home game after Reichel had returned to Calgary. For the 1995-96 season Reichel was put on a line with his compatriot, right wing Jiři Lála. The two players ended up completely outscoring the rest of the league; Reichel had 47 goals and 54 assists (101 points) in 46 regular season games, Lála had 36 goals and 48 helpers (84 points) in 50 regular season games. While Lála tried to play a 200-foot game, Reichel most of the time didn't bother to play defense and only waited at the blue line (or sometimes even at the red line) for the home run pass. Unlike Jim Montgomery with the B's #88, then-Lions bench boss Piotr Vorobiev (a former assistant coach on the Russian national team) often clashed with his star center, but to no avail. Some situations, especially when Vorobiev had called a timeout and tried to instruct his players, were very telling, because Reichel usually kept skating somewhere on the ice while the rest of the team was on or close to the bench, listening to their head coach.
The Lions ended up in eighth place (out of 18 teams) and made the playoffs (16 teams qualified), but were easily swept in the first round by the ninth place Kassel Huskies, who simply had a very good defensive forward (can't think of his name now) mark Reichel relentlessly.
Frankfurt eventually won the DEL title in 2004, with Reichel's less talented (but way more determined) brother Martin (father of Chicago Blackhawks left wing Lukas Reichel) playing as a checking line center.
|
|
|
Post by sandogbrewin on Mar 3, 2024 12:44:43 GMT
The guy plays with pylons and still is top 5 in league scoring. Maybe give him some help and watch him take it to another level. Pasta will get help this summer.
|
|
|
Post by jmwalters on Mar 3, 2024 14:04:48 GMT
The guy plays with pylons and still is top 5 in league scoring. Maybe give him some help and watch him take it to another level. Pasta will get help this summer. Hopefully BUT the alleged cap space is not all its cracked up to be (as we have discussed before). And Grizz still needs his extension
|
|
|
Post by davinator on Mar 3, 2024 18:54:21 GMT
Good. Let's try to keep all this shit in one thread...
|
|
|
Post by The OC on Mar 3, 2024 19:41:17 GMT
What's incredible is he is doing it without a center...find me another high scoring winger who has no center? Where? What he should be is in the running for the Hart. Has no Mcdavid or Point/Stamkos yet he is the sole flair of offense on a team with one of the best records in the NHL. He did finish second last year… but yeah, he’s a problem player, obviously.
|
|
|
Post by Lord Markwart on Mar 3, 2024 21:05:30 GMT
Good. Let's try to keep all this shit in one thread... That was the point. I am comparing him to first ballot HOF players so this is not about his skill set or impact on the scoresheet. This thread should not exist if he was not an Assistant Captain. BUT he is..... Brick constantly mentions "details" when it comes to winning (playoff) hockey and I agree. But Pasta is one of the most anti-details guy on this roster and perhaps the league. He is "the high roller", "gun-slinger", the "gambler", and his style has showed this since he was a rookie. At the same time, he can be a one-man show and take over a game with his creativity, lethal one-timer, genius, and skill. I just don't see his willingness to improve on some of the necessary details/decision making and this is a shitty message to send to the younger players. Is he afraid that this will stifle his creativity? Is he lazy or pacing himself? Is it the coaching? All I know is that I'd rather have a Chris Kelly type as the leader than Pasta, but make no mistake, I would want Pasta on my team.
|
|
|
Post by MrHulot on Mar 4, 2024 2:17:36 GMT
Good. Let's try to keep all this shit in one thread... That was the point. I am comparing him to first ballot HOF players so this is not about his skill set or impact on the scoresheet. This thread should not exist if he was not an Assistant Captain. BUT he is.....
Brick constantly mentions "details" when it comes to winning (playoff) hockey and I agree. But Pasta is one of the most anti-details guy on this roster and perhaps the league. He is "the high roller", "gun-slinger", the "gambler", and his style has showed this since he was a rookie. At the same time, he can be a one-man show and take over a game with his creativity, lethal one-timer, genius, and skill. I just don't see his willingness to improve on some of the necessary details/decision making and this is a shitty message to send to the younger players. Is he afraid that this will stifle his creativity? Is he lazy or pacing himself? Is it the coaching? All I know is that I'd rather have a Chris Kelly type as the leader than Pasta, but make no mistake, I would want Pasta on my team. BRAVO!!!
Only if he is willing to adjust and play for the team instead of to the gallery.
|
|
|
Post by MrHulot on Mar 4, 2024 2:20:27 GMT
The guy plays with pylons and still is top 5 in league scoring. Maybe give him some help and watch him take it to another level. Pasta will get help this summer. I guess they have signed him up for counseling...
|
|
|
Post by dannycater on Mar 4, 2024 14:31:15 GMT
I'm starting to think a few of the people in here need.....counseling.
|
|
|
Post by Lord Markwart on Mar 4, 2024 15:03:46 GMT
Danny- Debate is FUN... I got respect for you on here as well and would love your take on the leadership angle. We all know and agree that he can score.
|
|
|
Post by dannycater on Mar 4, 2024 15:44:47 GMT
Danny- Debate is FUN... I got respect for you on here as well and would love your take on the leadership angle. We all know and agree that he can score. okay, here's my take on leadership...I don't view him as a leader...never have...A on the sweater...I don't care...I really don't...I think Marchand gets way too much flak from fans about being Captain...He has done a good job and he still produces...to me, it's about production and sure about how you are on that sheet of ice...Pasta isn't a leader, but he's an incredible scorer, so in that respect he is A LEADER...he scores, he gets the offense going (and look when he doesn't? Few are stepping up...who stepped up v. Isles? McLaughlin and 73 who has been a great leader to me--I campaigned for him to get the C)...and McAvoy will eventually be a Captain I think...but I think we look at Bergeron/Chara/Bourque...too big skates to fill as leaders...they all had their stature as great B's and led by example and led in the lockerroom. I just don't value that part as much as a I value production..You produce, you do your job...Does 88 play great back-checking? No. Does he float? Sure...Do I care? Yes, if he doesn't score and he isn't a producer. He is the team's 1 and only constant...and offensive dynamo...I don't really know what more I can ask out of him...Feel Edmonton fans do that to even McDavid and Laffs for Matthews...I say, look they produce, and that production often should lead to success. Go B's! Markwart all good, buddy....let me add...when Krejci was the Scoring Leader in 2 Cup Playoffs...isn't that leading? He produced, do you think he was a leader at that point in his career? He was a scorer and playmaker on a team that had other leaders--Bergeron, Chara, Recchi.
|
|
|
Post by bookboy007 on Mar 4, 2024 16:32:14 GMT
Since this topic has dominated recent game threads, I thought a breakout room was appropriate. I do not buy that this should not be discussed since he gets paid a premium, is an Assistant Captain, and should be held to the highest of standards. I will start... Should he be traded?...No, only if it was to get a bonafide #1 center. Is he like other stars in the league?...Debatable. He is truly unique. Some put him with Kucherov as a winger but Kucherov has won 2 Cups, has been league MVP, and has better vision. Maybe Ovechkin??-- this one is closer in terms of a great one timer but Ovie is physical less flashy and has won a Cup. Panarin might be the closest??? Maybe Kane in his prime as a winger but hard to argue against 3 Cups with Kane. Hard to compare him to the center position since responsibilities are so different so I am not going to. I was thinking of wings of the past and could only come up with Mogilny, Bure, or Selanne. Pasta is electric and he knows it. How do you feel about his "entitlement" factor? Yes, he is high risk / high reward and there are players of his caliber like him...but I often wonder if he is the "highest" risk player in the league and does he gets too much license... to go for high risk instead of playing it safe. He also gets additional license to stay out for very long shifts. Both of these seem to go unpunished when it goes bad, so is he going to truly learn in these areas if "anything" goes without repercussions. I don't have an answer for this as I wouldn't want a "safe" Jacques Lemaire style coach as it makes the game suck... Please discuss...but don't bring in the dumb plus/minus stat into it. Even Grizz has a high plus/minus. OK, I read the entire thread to date before commenting. I don't know how "he scores! but he's not responsible! but he scores! but he's not responsible! but he scores! but he behaves like an entitled brat and causes goals against!" is less "dumb" than trying to use plus/minus to find some kind of common denominator. Because right now, this conversation is a) guys who score are special, my little ponies who should be above criticism and their flaws should be overlooked because it's the team's fault for not putting them on a line with someone else who helps them score even more or cover for them and b) accountability is the foundation of winning and I don't care how many goals you score, if you aren't playing hard and within the same system as the rest of the team, you're a liability. There's no way you can solve that. It competing beliefs. You either believe that players who score elite numbers are untouchable in terms of value or you don't; once you don't, then the crazy dollars you pay for elite scorers looks insane for a player who is a liability in his defensive zone, and who looks like he has no awareness of what's going on on the rest of the ice when he's not actively trying to score (including poorly timed, slow line changes, unnecessary blind passes, choosing high-risk options like trying to one-time a bouncing puck when you're the last man back - and most of these things are not "taking risks to create offense").
|
|