|
|
Post by pletchner on Apr 5, 2024 19:10:09 GMT
So you don't agree that he makes stupid plays and looses the puck trying to be cute at times? That's not so much a criticism as just watching him play. You aren't suggesting he doesn't do that, are you? The issue to me is whether the Bs are better off with what he brings despite him doing those dumb things - with the answer being an unequivocal, "Of course they are!" I love Pasta. But he makes some dumb plays. And yes, those dumb plays are waaaay down the list of B's problems. Every NHL player makes dumb plays, and if you are on the ice 18 to 20 minutes a game, it's going to happen, and you are also going to have weak games--Nylander, Matthews, Marner did nothing yesterday--you think the Leafs fans are saying "stop being so cute, and I'm tired of these overpaid guys who make poor passes or are beaten off the puck."...they probably do. Plech, I just think this is a hill worth climbing...honestly, the guy has 90 points and if you can't see how great he is like he was v. a really good team yesterday, then I really don't know what more to say. OK, I'm going to take one more crack at why I won't take the "Pasta is so good that it's not right to criticize him for anything" thought process that seems to be involved here. Pasta is one of the best players - not just goal scorers, but players - in the NHL. I love him as a player. I agree that he is better defensively than he gets credit for, and that his overall effort is almost always there. He also is fun as hell to watch. He has personality, and it shows in his play as well as off ice. I'm very happy that he is a B and I want it to stay that way. But when he gets the puck, and it's not in the offensive zone, I get a little nervous. And it isn't because he makes "stupid" passes. He usually makes really good passes, and he is creative in doing it. But sometimes, those creative passes backfire, either because they are telegraphed or, more often, just anticipated - as much as anything, other players know him well enough to be ready for "that" pass. And in the playoffs, when the opponent has a chance to game plan against him over a series, and it's not unusual for the best players to be shut down for stretches, I think he has tended to force more of those passes. Plus, with even more focus on the other team's best player, and game planning accordingly, those passes are anticipated more and more. FWIW, I say this as someone who LOVES to make those "creative" passes, even to this day, and tends to put about 30% of them on the stick of someone wearing a different colored jersey. And yes, every player makes bad/stupid passes. But most NHL guys take a seat when they do - or maybe after a couple. Rightfully so, Pasta can make all the "bad" passes he wants and he isn't going to lose ice time. Same goes for Marchand and probably MacAvoy. Both Marchand and Pasta probably take advantage of that (not intentionally) a little more than I'd like. I'd just like to see Pasta be a little more conservative in his defensive and neutral zone play, particularly passing and especially in the playoffs. To take that as somehow being critical of his game as a whole is quite a stretch. |
|
|
|
Post by dannycater on Apr 6, 2024 0:00:59 GMT
Every NHL player makes dumb plays, and if you are on the ice 18 to 20 minutes a game, it's going to happen, and you are also going to have weak games--Nylander, Matthews, Marner did nothing yesterday--you think the Leafs fans are saying "stop being so cute, and I'm tired of these overpaid guys who make poor passes or are beaten off the puck."...they probably do. Plech, I just think this is a hill worth climbing...honestly, the guy has 90 points and if you can't see how great he is like he was v. a really good team yesterday, then I really don't know what more to say. OK, I'm going to take one more crack at why I won't take the "Pasta is so good that it's not right to criticize him for anything" thought process that seems to be involved here. Pasta is one of the best players - not just goal scorers, but players - in the NHL. I love him as a player. I agree that he is better defensively than he gets credit for, and that his overall effort is almost always there. He also is fun as hell to watch. He has personality, and it shows in his play as well as off ice. I'm very happy that he is a B and I want it to stay that way. But when he gets the puck, and it's not in the offensive zone, I get a little nervous. And it isn't because he makes "stupid" passes. He usually makes really good passes, and he is creative in doing it. But sometimes, those creative passes backfire, either because they are telegraphed or, more often, just anticipated - as much as anything, other players know him well enough to be ready for "that" pass. And in the playoffs, when the opponent has a chance to game plan against him over a series, and it's not unusual for the best players to be shut down for stretches, I think he has tended to force more of those passes. Plus, with even more focus on the other team's best player, and game planning accordingly, those passes are anticipated more and more. FWIW, I say this as someone who LOVES to make those "creative" passes, even to this day, and tends to put about 30% of them on the stick of someone wearing a different colored jersey. And yes, every player makes bad/stupid passes. But most NHL guys take a seat when they do - or maybe after a couple. Rightfully so, Pasta can make all the "bad" passes he wants and he isn't going to lose ice time. Same goes for Marchand and probably MacAvoy. Both Marchand and Pasta probably take advantage of that (not intentionally) a little more than I'd like. I'd just like to see Pasta be a little more conservative in his defensive and neutral zone play, particularly passing and especially in the playoffs. To take that as somehow being critical of his game as a whole is quite a stretch. This is a very thoughtful interpretation of your view on Pasta. So I will respectfully tell you....I'll take any bad pass if he is producing at a rate where like the Carolina game he is incredibly impactful. He is basically to me the MVP of the NHL who doesn't get enough credit for doing all of this with basically an okay center and a journeyman winger....and oh yeah, he's making them better too. |
|
|
|
Post by MrHulot on Apr 30, 2024 10:22:49 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by chappy28 on Apr 30, 2024 12:24:28 GMT
Sounds like the team knew they needed to play a "clean" game against Toronto to win this series and everyone bought in. I can't think of single overly careless play by Pasta this series. Love it. Pretty huge to have a guy like Pasta really buy in to taking the risk out of his game full well knowing it will decrease his output, but help the team win games. Toronto's "big 4" should be taking notes. The other thing notable --- sure Pasta leads the league in give-aways, but look at the runners up. Kucherov, Malkin, etc. --- it's all VERY high end, offensive guys who are great players that everyone wants on their team. By definition the best offensive players will be high risk, high reward. It only works if you are "that good", otherwise you end up on the bench. |
|
|
|
Post by jmwalters on Apr 30, 2024 12:51:06 GMT
Sounds like the team knew they needed to play a "clean" game against Toronto to win this series and everyone bought in. I can't think of single overly careless play by Pasta this series. Love it. Pretty huge to have a guy like Pasta really buy in to taking the risk out of his game full well knowing it will decrease his output, but help the team win games. Toronto's "big 4" should be taking notes. The other thing notable --- sure Pasta leads the league in give-aways, but look at the runners up. Kucherov, Malkin, etc. --- it's all VERY high end, offensive guys who are great players that everyone wants on their team. By definition the best offensive players will be high risk, high reward. It only works if you are "that good", otherwise you end up on the bench. I am 100% fine with this. He is still producing at a pint per game…Bette than most of the nhl. The defining moment for me last game was late in the third when both Pasta and Marchand stood to block a shot from the point at the same time., this when Matthews fucked off with a tummy ache. |
|
|
|
Post by Fletcher on Apr 30, 2024 13:50:39 GMT
Sounds like the team knew they needed to play a "clean" game against Toronto to win this series and everyone bought in. I can't think of single overly careless play by Pasta this series. Love it. Pretty huge to have a guy like Pasta really buy in to taking the risk out of his game full well knowing it will decrease his output, but help the team win games. Toronto's "big 4" should be taking notes. The other thing notable --- sure Pasta leads the league in give-aways, but look at the runners up. Kucherov, Malkin, etc. --- it's all VERY high end, offensive guys who are great players that everyone wants on their team. By definition the best offensive players will be high risk, high reward. It only works if you are "that good", otherwise you end up on the bench. I am 100% fine with this. He is still producing at a pint per game…Bette than most of the nhl. The defining moment for me last game was late in the third when both Pasta and Marchand stood to block a shot from the point at the same time., this when Matthews fucked off with a tummy ache. I think of the Debrusk rebound goal in Game 3, when Benoit (I think) buried him against the side boards to the delight of the Leaf fans, and two other Leafs were knocking him around on the ice trying to dig out that loose puck. Pasta kept fighting feverishly, from the ground, which allowed the puck to pop out to Marchand, with the Leafs totally out of position. Uncontested shot from Marchand, rebound to Debrusk, goal. If doesn't fight from the ground, that goal doesn't happen. Good signs. |
|
|
|
Post by jmwalters on Apr 30, 2024 13:56:33 GMT
I am 100% fine with this. He is still producing at a pint per game…Bette than most of the nhl. The defining moment for me last game was late in the third when both Pasta and Marchand stood to block a shot from the point at the same time., this when Matthews fucked off with a tummy ache. I think of the Debrusk rebound goal in Game 3, when Benoit (I think) buried him against the side boards to the delight of the Leaf fans, and two other Leafs were knocking him around on the ice trying to dig out that loose puck. Pasta kept fighting feverishly, from the ground, which allowed the puck to pop out to Marchand, with the Leafs totally out of position. Uncontested shot from Marchand, rebound to Debrusk, goal. If doesn't fight from the ground, that goal doesn't happen. Good signs. Absolutely. The difference between these two teams is like night and day. Pasta going 1ppg and doing all the little things is what wins game sin the playoffs. |
|
|
|
Post by chappy28 on Apr 30, 2024 15:41:05 GMT
I think of the Debrusk rebound goal in Game 3, when Benoit (I think) buried him against the side boards to the delight of the Leaf fans, and two other Leafs were knocking him around on the ice trying to dig out that loose puck. Pasta kept fighting feverishly, from the ground, which allowed the puck to pop out to Marchand, with the Leafs totally out of position. Uncontested shot from Marchand, rebound to Debrusk, goal. If doesn't fight from the ground, that goal doesn't happen. Good signs. Absolutely. The difference between these two teams is like night and day. Pasta going 1ppg and doing all the little things is what wins game sin the playoffs. I think it can't be underestimated how much just his presence on the PP opens things up elsewhere. Every PK unit has to respect that one-timer and in shutting that down they take people away from the front of the net, which opens up rebound opportunities and second chances. |
|
|
|
Post by jmwalters on Apr 30, 2024 16:09:27 GMT
Absolutely. The difference between these two teams is like night and day. Pasta going 1ppg and doing all the little things is what wins game sin the playoffs. I think it can't be underestimated how much just his presence on the PP opens things up elsewhere. Every PK unit has to respect that one-timer and in shutting that down they take people away from the front of the net, which opens up rebound opportunities and second chances. Yep, plus when the opposition focuses on him it opens lanes for others. |
|
