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Post by UtahGetMeTwo on Nov 11, 2016 6:01:55 GMT
"Wisconsin turn out* Voting Eligible Population Ballots Voter Eligible Population That Didn’t Vote Voter Eligible Population Total 2,935,000 (68.4 percent) 1,360,057 (31.6 percent) 4,295,057 *based on statistics from the United States Elections Project
Michigan Turn-Out* Voting Eligible Population Ballots Voter Eligible Population That Didn’t Vote Voter Eligible Population Total 4,800,000 2,631,589 7,431,589 *based on statistics from the United States Elections Project
New Hampshire Turn-Out* Voting Eligible Population Ballots Voter Eligible Population That Didn’t Vote Voter Eligible Population Total 732,000 309,147 1,041,147
*based on statistics from the United States Elections Project Another state with a very thin margin is New Hampshire, which still hasn’t been completely called. Clinton is ahead with 348,126 votes and Trump has 345,598 votes.
In Michigan, the difference between Trump and Clinton is just 11,837 votes. (Gary Johnson earned 173,021 votes.) In Wisconsin, the difference between Trump and Clinton was just 27,257 votes. If she got the same number of votes Obama received in Milwaukee County alone, she would have made up the difference."
"Rough numbers: 115m of 230m eligible voters stayed home. Trump won Wisconsin by 27,000 votes. 300,000 registered voters in WI lacked strict voter ID"
Those protesters should be mad at the people who stayed home.
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Post by walktheline on Nov 11, 2016 11:49:18 GMT
And tonight he tweets; Just had a very open and successful presidential election. Now professional protesters, incited by the media, are protesting. Very unfair! "Professional protesters" - common sense says this is nonsense. "Incited by the media" more nonsense. So unprofessional. Is it too much to ask he act like an adult now that he's the leader of the free world? And ONLY for the sake of argument, let's suppose it is true that these are professionals incited by the media (I hate even supposing that because anyone with a grain of intelligence can't believe it), realize you're not a popular president by losing the popular and don't rile people up just for the fuck of it. 4 years of Breitbart tweets coming our way. Fine. I don't give a shit anymore. Make it illegal to protest, have the national guard shoot at them. Fine. You want a country like this, you got it. Trump is partially right. Left-leaning media is giving more attention to the protesters and those who voted for Hillary and want to have their say after losing than they are to the transition. Some of it is understandable as the election was so divisive and close, with an upset winner. I've heard more excuses on how the media isn't at fault for getting the projected results wrong, the polls were flawed. Not that they would try to skew things in favor of Hillary. They led the dems to believe this election was in the bag only to get kicked in the gut. Painful. No wonder there's so many people as upset as they are. Except their anger is a bit misguided. They should be pissed at their own party and the media.
As far as the professional protesters, he's sort of right (see Kel's post). Professional might be the wrong word but there are plenty of these numbnuts out there that think they can change the world by protesting. What they're really doing is seeking attention. They all want to be noticed and if possible famous. If only Hillary's followers would take her lead and be gracious in their loss. Party of love, peace and unity my ass. Condemn Trump for saying hateful things then say hateful things about Trump. Preach of peace then be uncivil. Condemn divisive actions and praise unity then claim the duly-elected president is not your president. Hypocrites.
But I'll agree with you that Trump should just ignore it and shouldn't be tweeting about it unless he has something more constructive to say.
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Post by NAS on Nov 11, 2016 12:06:50 GMT
GOP! Clinton supporters can suck it!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2016 12:36:45 GMT
GOP! Clinton supporters can suck it! GOP is back in business. Amazing the Dems haven't seen this coming. But then again, they had the Latinos! Stupid! Besides Obama, they've been handed landslides since 2010 when the Tea Party flipped 700 seat nationwide. Governorships and state legislatures are 2/3rd Red. The next SC Justice will be an originalist. There's no war...no recession. The election is a rebuke of Progressivism. People hate the government and the endless hectoring of the obnoxious Nanny State. Great autopsy on the Hag's campaign in Politico. Here's a classic IYI, Robby Mook. Has anybody seen this puke speak? He a revulsive academico-bureaucrat. They should have listened to Bill Clinton, but what does he know? Bill Clinton isn't an expert, after all. I hope they keep listening to these experts. "And some began pointing fingers at the young campaign manager, Robby Mook, who spearheaded a strategy supported by the senior campaign team that included only limited outreach to those voters — a theory of the case that Bill Clinton had railed against for months, wondering aloud at meetings why the campaign was not making more of an attempt to even ask that population for its votes...But in general, Bill Clinton’s viewpoint of fighting for the working class white voters was often dismissed with a hand wave by senior members of the team as a personal vendetta to win back the voters who elected him, from a talented but aging politician who simply refused to accept the new Democratic map. At a meeting ahead of the convention at which aides presented to both Clintons the “Stronger Together” framework for the general election, senior strategist Joel Benenson told the former president bluntly that the voters from West Virginia were never coming back to his party." www.politico.com/story/2016/11/hillary-clinton-aides-loss-blame-231215
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Post by badhabitude on Nov 11, 2016 13:17:23 GMT
GOP! Clinton supporters can suck it! This isn't hockey where winners should gloat. No matter the reason, no matter who the protesters are, unrest isn't a good thing in the country. Those cops send to deal with rioters could be doing something else. The media inciting the protesters? Trump has tweeted for counter protests. I don't think that is good leadership, I don' think that will help. During the election we were competing, we were on different teams, but there is ONE team now and we're both on it and its called the USA. And I'm not out there protesting, but if there is a way I can be paid for doing what I'm doing now for free, I'm all ears.
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Post by jmwalters on Nov 11, 2016 13:31:48 GMT
The US economy is the most diverse in the world. Anything that represents roughly 9% of the workforce and 12% of the GDP is huge. Comparing it to less diverse economies is cheating!
Dont you mean...yuuuuge!!!! Bigly maybe?
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Post by jmwalters on Nov 11, 2016 13:34:11 GMT
"Wisconsin turn out* Voting Eligible Population Ballots Voter Eligible Population That Didn’t Vote Voter Eligible Population Total 2,935,000 (68.4 percent) 1,360,057 (31.6 percent) 4,295,057 *based on statistics from the United States Elections Project Michigan Turn-Out* Voting Eligible Population Ballots Voter Eligible Population That Didn’t Vote Voter Eligible Population Total 4,800,000 2,631,589 7,431,589 *based on statistics from the United States Elections Project New Hampshire Turn-Out* Voting Eligible Population Ballots Voter Eligible Population That Didn’t Vote Voter Eligible Population Total 732,000 309,147 1,041,147 *based on statistics from the United States Elections Project Another state with a very thin margin is New Hampshire, which still hasn’t been completely called. Clinton is ahead with 348,126 votes and Trump has 345,598 votes. In Michigan, the difference between Trump and Clinton is just 11,837 votes. (Gary Johnson earned 173,021 votes.) In Wisconsin, the difference between Trump and Clinton was just 27,257 votes. If she got the same number of votes Obama received in Milwaukee County alone, she would have made up the difference." "Rough numbers: 115m of 230m eligible voters stayed home. Trump won Wisconsin by 27,000 votes. 300,000 registered voters in WI lacked strict voter ID" Those protesters should be mad at the people who stayed home. And there is the election in a nutshell. Trump got around as many votes as Romney did...meaning the repub base showed up. Clinton on the other hand got 5 million less votes than Obama. Where did those votes go? Nowhere, they just didnt show up. Had more important things to do I guess
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Post by badhabitude on Nov 11, 2016 14:16:34 GMT
Finally. A tweet in the right direction. "Love the fact that the small groups of protesters last night have passion for our great country. We will all come together and be proud!"
Hopefully he can keep it up.
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Post by badhabitude on Nov 11, 2016 14:25:00 GMT
If the shoe were on the other foot and if Hillary won and there were masses of protesters out there chanting "lock her up" in every major city, I would hope she would resign the presidency. It would save the country from possible impeachment hearings and so on. Tim Kaine would push for all the same legislation and etc.
If Trump keeps tweeting incendiary crap and/or gets nailed for Trump University, then I think the best course would be for him to resign. All the same legislation would get passed - except much more easily. I can't believe congress would approve building a wall, horribly inefficient and just an enormous boondoggle, what they could go for and what would be much more effective would be to strengthen the border with more people, electronic surveillance and so on. Same thing accomplished, but a lot less noise getting there.
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Post by UtahGetMeTwo on Nov 11, 2016 14:25:41 GMT
GOP! Clinton supporters can suck it! That's what they get for not picking Sanders.
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Post by islamorada on Nov 11, 2016 16:04:19 GMT
Here is the problem with thinking automation or robotics destroys manufacturing, how do other countries manufacture? The answer is automation and robotics. So let us drop the vision of a little Asian soldering circuitry. The problem is China is no longer in the 1980s, the US is! I have learned that the pollsters failed to calculate in the influence of social networking on the polls. Twitter and FB followers account for the errors. The Trump election team did better than expected. Social networks work for either party, the Democrats failed. Stop the growth of the federal bureaucracy. Jobs created should be in the public sector. Yes the Chinese are automated but the reason they do it cheaper is because they have a whole population of slave labourers. Is that what you want? A whole industry of workers in the U.S. that make $3 an hour? I mean yes they will be employed but is that the template you want to follow? If not then you can slap massive tariffs on imports (meaning huge trade wars with other nations by the way) and subsidize local industry so workers can make a comparatively living wage.....but once you do that inflation will eat whatever newfound purchasing power you will gain. Manufacturing is not a growth industry. The solution is cultivating new industries or expanding quality education access to the many so they can enter the workforce as high skill labourers for growth industries (service sector). Also, under Obama 98% of job growth has been in the private sector (over 15 million new private sector jobs). The only public sector industry that has seen consistent job growth has been the armed forces....and guess which new president wants to expand this industry exponentially? Firstly I should have been clearer in my discussion JMW. I think the biggest concern is creation of jobs. I read a couple months ago on public and private sector jobs, I believe the article was in reference to amount of jobs in existence reliant on government spending. I could not find the article. My apologies. Although, I did not read 98%. I did read that job creation is not necessarily connected to the President. For instance Ronald Reagan had private sector job growth in the same realm of O'Bama. Yet both their numbers are skewed by the fact the country was in a recession and went through recovery. In the case of Ronald Reagan, he had the PC/software boom in his second administration. The fact the Reagan Administration had a smaller population then the O'Bama Administration numbers are less comparable. The fact is the O'Bama Administration had the lowest private sector growth of all the Presidents since Reagan. Clinton had the best, although his numbers are witnessed in the internet boom. Nonetheless, the President is not responsible for private sector growth in simple terms. The fact TARP was continued under O'Bama and the stimulus package continued the debt has grown way out of proportion to the overall annual GDP. Spending to improve infrastructure or for defense will make private industries produce jobs. Those jobs are linked to private sector numbers. Yet the money is from the federal government. As for public sector job numbers, most of the reductions came in local and state governments not the federal government. So I am not sure one can count on numbers like 98% growth in the private sector. The debt though needs to be reduced. Private sector jobs must increase from small business. Thus my point. As for manufacturing you are correct, American workers will not work for $3. So I ask why does Toyota build cars in America? The answer lies in the fact Japan's economy has risen to such a point it is better to build the cars nearer to where they are purchased. My point simply is manufacturing can be improved in the USA. It can be a growth industry. Fasteners are made in Asian countries, American tool industries died in the area I live near and in the rust belt. Yet, GRK fasteners which were just sold are made in Canada. They are expensive but many contractors like the fasteners. Manufacturing will never be on the scale of the Post WWII decades but it does not have to be solely in Asia. I ask why does Apple keep $$ in Ireland? Tax structure, Capital gains needs to be redefined. Streamline taxes. Lastly education is great. My daughters were lucky and landed tech jobs near Boston. Yet there are many who work in grocery stores and live at home with astronomical debt with the promise education is the answer. It needs to be redefined. Jobs created in this country are important to that generation. The Hilary Campaign has itself to blame not Trump for losing the Presidency. The Middle Class is fed up with idealism at it's expense. I don't believe in the trickle down theory but I also don't believe one can spend itself into prosperity. What did Loyd Benson say about spending?
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Post by The OC on Nov 12, 2016 1:11:56 GMT
just a quick thought. imo, this thread has been one of the most civil, respectful, shared, thought provoking back and forths, I've ever been a part of here. as a group, why do we have to be so insular when talking hockey? IMO, opinions on hockey are by and large more united than they are about politics. I wish America would agree as closely as this forum does. I like this thread. It's going past the election and might chronicle Trump's presidency, it will be really interesting. We should have term limits for general managers! We do, 8 years. That's why PC went to Edmonton. Though I hear his daughter is running for Boston GM in 2018...
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Post by The OC on Nov 12, 2016 1:14:25 GMT
Regardless of what Trump is, his winning is a beautiful example of democracy and I love it for that. Despite his own party trying to fight his nomination and ridiculous media and celebrity bias and brainwash attempts, he won because people voted him in. America might not be fucked just yet.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2016 1:31:13 GMT
Hockey is a great sport!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2016 3:07:05 GMT
If the shoe were on the other foot and if Hillary won and there were masses of protesters out there chanting "lock her up" in every major city, I would hope she would resign the presidency. It would save the country from possible impeachment hearings and so on. Tim Kaine would push for all the same legislation and etc. If Trump keeps tweeting incendiary crap and/or gets nailed for Trump University, then I think the best course would be for him to resign. All the same legislation would get passed - except much more easily. I can't believe congress would approve building a wall, horribly inefficient and just an enormous boondoggle, what they could go for and what would be much more effective would be to strengthen the border with more people, electronic surveillance and so on. Same thing accomplished, but a lot less noise getting there. You did it to yourselves. NOW they protest from the outcome! Ya bunch of dummies should've been out there doing this when both of these crooks got their name on the fucking ticket! Reactive instead of proactive usually sucks everytime.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2016 3:27:18 GMT
So that's it? We've tried nothing and we're already out of ideas? What do you suggest? Why can't we stimulate manufacturers with the same gusto as the big banks. It's not as if we manufacture nothing. But if there is another big boom, it's going to be oil and gas.Actually if there is going to be another big boom it is going to be from new industries (renewables and tech). And maybe the pot industry if it is legalized on a national scale The fuck it is! This industry WILL NEVER get back to where it was! It'll get better & it slowly is, but to where it was to say 2007-2012? Nope!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2016 3:39:49 GMT
Actually if there is going to be another big boom it is going to be from new industries (renewables and tech). And maybe the pot industry if it is legalized on a national scale The fuck it is! This industry WILL NEVER get back to where it was! It'll get better & it slowly is, but to where it was to say 2007-2012? Nope! What was that like back then? I honestly don't know much about how it affected Western Canada. That's the tough reality of the oil business-the more the resources are developed, the less money there is in it.
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Post by UtahGetMeTwo on Nov 12, 2016 4:12:30 GMT
Same thing accomplished, but a lot less noise getting there. Reactive instead of proactive usually sucks everytime. That is the US government in a nutshell right there.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2016 9:17:45 GMT
The fuck it is! This industry WILL NEVER get back to where it was! It'll get better & it slowly is, but to where it was to say 2007-2012? Nope! What was that like back then? I honestly don't know much about how it affected Western Canada. That's the tough reality of the oil business-the more the resources are developed, the less money there is in it. Henry, when I first got into it back in 04' it was great for Canada. I had my pick as to which fab shop, or site I wanted to go to. I seriously was getting called at least 3-4x a month from different companies to come work for them. Slowed down a bit in 06-07 & that's when I left oil/gas for WestJet. Never would've left Westjet had I been able to move up, but there was only 3 places in my department where I could go & I was told I was in line for the next opening as my boss was retiring. I never even got interviewed for it & they gave it to someone from Toronto. I asked what happened & Head Office just basically said that this person worked for WestJet longer, but to not even give me an interview? Needless to say I was pissed off. After my meeting--about 45 min later I got a call from a buddy who was the Construction Manager for a job in Fort Mac. He offered me a sweet fucking deal & he got me when I was pissed, so I walked back in & said I was putting in my 2 wks. BIGGEST mistake I ever fucking made! I should've told my buddy I want to think about & let myself cool off. But, that's the Maritime in me & I jumped when I should've just taken a step back & paused. The person from Toronto got fired on his 88th day. Anyway, sorry about that rant, but from 2008-2012 the Oil & Gas industry was booming, yea there were a few hiccups here & there, like in 2009, but that didn't stop from expansion. I highly doubt that there will be any more plants being built. It's going to be mostly expansion & maintenance shutdowns. The pipe line (one of the very few things I do like about Trump) will certainly help for jobs for the short term-- unless you're lucky enough to get hired on at a substation.
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Post by walktheline on Nov 12, 2016 13:02:07 GMT
GOP! Clinton supporters can suck it! GOP is back in business. Amazing the Dems haven't seen this coming. But then again, they had the Latinos! Stupid! Besides Obama, they've been handed landslides since 2010 when the Tea Party flipped 700 seat nationwide. Governorships and state legislatures are 2/3rd Red. The next SC Justice will be an originalist. There's no war...no recession. The election is a rebuke of Progressivism. People hate the government and the endless hectoring of the obnoxious Nanny State. Great autopsy on the Hag's campaign in Politico. Here's a classic IYI, Robby Mook. Has anybody seen this puke speak? He a revulsive academico-bureaucrat. They should have listened to Bill Clinton, but what does he know? Bill Clinton isn't an expert, after all. I hope they keep listening to these experts. "And some began pointing fingers at the young campaign manager, Robby Mook, who spearheaded a strategy supported by the senior campaign team that included only limited outreach to those voters — a theory of the case that Bill Clinton had railed against for months, wondering aloud at meetings why the campaign was not making more of an attempt to even ask that population for its votes...But in general, Bill Clinton’s viewpoint of fighting for the working class white voters was often dismissed with a hand wave by senior members of the team as a personal vendetta to win back the voters who elected him, from a talented but aging politician who simply refused to accept the new Democratic map. At a meeting ahead of the convention at which aides presented to both Clintons the “Stronger Together” framework for the general election, senior strategist Joel Benenson told the former president bluntly that the voters from West Virginia were never coming back to his party." www.politico.com/story/2016/11/hillary-clinton-aides-loss-blame-231215At least the Republicans had some understanding of where they failed 4 years ago. That Politico piece is a good read. Thanks.
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Post by jmwalters on Nov 12, 2016 15:13:19 GMT
Firstly I should have been clearer in my discussion JMW. I think the biggest concern is creation of jobs. I read a couple months ago on public and private sector jobs, I believe the article was in reference to amount of jobs in existence reliant on government spending. I could not find the article. My apologies. Although, I did not read 98%. I did read that job creation is not necessarily connected to the President. For instance Ronald Reagan had private sector job growth in the same realm of O'Bama. Yet both their numbers are skewed by the fact the country was in a recession and went through recovery. In the case of Ronald Reagan, he had the PC/software boom in his second administration. The fact the Reagan Administration had a smaller population then the O'Bama Administration numbers are less comparable. The fact is the O'Bama Administration had the lowest private sector growth of all the Presidents since Reagan. Clinton had the best, although his numbers are witnessed in the internet boom. Nonetheless, the President is not responsible for private sector growth in simple terms. The fact TARP was continued under O'Bama and the stimulus package continued the debt has grown way out of proportion to the overall annual GDP. Spending to improve infrastructure or for defense will make private industries produce jobs. Those jobs are linked to private sector numbers. Yet the money is from the federal government. As for public sector job numbers, most of the reductions came in local and state governments not the federal government. So I am not sure one can count on numbers like 98% growth in the private sector. The debt though needs to be reduced. Private sector jobs must increase from small business. Thus my point. As for manufacturing you are correct, American workers will not work for $3. So I ask why does Toyota build cars in America? The answer lies in the fact Japan's economy has risen to such a point it is better to build the cars nearer to where they are purchased. My point simply is manufacturing can be improved in the USA. It can be a growth industry. Fasteners are made in Asian countries, American tool industries died in the area I live near and in the rust belt. Yet, GRK fasteners which were just sold are made in Canada. They are expensive but many contractors like the fasteners. Manufacturing will never be on the scale of the Post WWII decades but it does not have to be solely in Asia. I ask why does Apple keep $$ in Ireland? Tax structure, Capital gains needs to be redefined. Streamline taxes. Lastly education is great. My daughters were lucky and landed tech jobs near Boston. Yet there are many who work in grocery stores and live at home with astronomical debt with the promise education is the answer. It needs to be redefined. Jobs created in this country are important to that generation. The Hilary Campaign has itself to blame not Trump for losing the Presidency. The Middle Class is fed up with idealism at it's expense. I don't believe in the trickle down theory but I also don't believe one can spend itself into prosperity. What did Loyd Benson say about spending? All good points, Isla...as always. Who to thank for job growth is always a point of contention. So either we say presidential policy does affect job growth or it doesnt. Unfortunately too many people want to have it both ways on this. They were blasting Obama when he took office at the height of the recession and job losses were approaching 800k a month and then saying he had nothing to do with the eventual 15 mill job gains during his presidency. That has always pissed me off. I don't begrudge Reagan or any other president when it comes to this and expect people to be consistent with their reasoning as well....I know, probably too much to ask lol. I agree with you about manufacturing to a point as well. I never proposed eliminating the sector altogether. My point is that, as you point out, its time has come and gone. This transition has left many behind but this is not the first time in history that economies adjust. So railing about jobs in a bygone industry like it is some magic bullet that will cure all ails is just short sighted in my opinion. The real problem here is not that manufacturing is no longer relevant, it is because there is no real direction as to what to focus on about what comes next. This lack of foresight has been the biggest casualty in a grid-locked federal government where they would rather infringe on the rights of women over their own personal health choices, or ramble about "teh gays" or be angry that we all don't say the lords prayer in kindergarten in the morning than come up with a solid long term and rational economic strategic plan. It has become theatre....performance art. And we have bought in to that concept, even electing a reality tv show star to lead. So Americans deport "brown people" making almost nothing in wages working on farms in the SW and that is going to bring back millions of jobs to underemployed white working class men in the rust belt? lol Are you or any of your friends (or any of my relatives still remaining in NH) who are underemployed seriously going to uproot your family and move to Arizona to pick crops for minimum wage? I seriously doubt that The way I see it, people are legitimately angry and confused and wanted an over the top spokesperson that gives them answers they want to hear. And they took that chance even though they have no idea about anything he will really do to actually improve their lives.
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Post by UtahGetMeTwo on Nov 12, 2016 15:35:36 GMT
At least the Republicans had some understanding of where they failed 4 years ago.
You mean the GOP got lucky, that a ton of people did not come out to vote.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2016 15:53:34 GMT
Firstly I should have been clearer in my discussion JMW. I think the biggest concern is creation of jobs. I read a couple months ago on public and private sector jobs, I believe the article was in reference to amount of jobs in existence reliant on government spending. I could not find the article. My apologies. Although, I did not read 98%. I did read that job creation is not necessarily connected to the President. For instance Ronald Reagan had private sector job growth in the same realm of O'Bama. Yet both their numbers are skewed by the fact the country was in a recession and went through recovery. In the case of Ronald Reagan, he had the PC/software boom in his second administration. The fact the Reagan Administration had a smaller population then the O'Bama Administration numbers are less comparable. The fact is the O'Bama Administration had the lowest private sector growth of all the Presidents since Reagan. Clinton had the best, although his numbers are witnessed in the internet boom. Nonetheless, the President is not responsible for private sector growth in simple terms. The fact TARP was continued under O'Bama and the stimulus package continued the debt has grown way out of proportion to the overall annual GDP. Spending to improve infrastructure or for defense will make private industries produce jobs. Those jobs are linked to private sector numbers. Yet the money is from the federal government. As for public sector job numbers, most of the reductions came in local and state governments not the federal government. So I am not sure one can count on numbers like 98% growth in the private sector. The debt though needs to be reduced. Private sector jobs must increase from small business. Thus my point. As for manufacturing you are correct, American workers will not work for $3. So I ask why does Toyota build cars in America? The answer lies in the fact Japan's economy has risen to such a point it is better to build the cars nearer to where they are purchased. My point simply is manufacturing can be improved in the USA. It can be a growth industry. Fasteners are made in Asian countries, American tool industries died in the area I live near and in the rust belt. Yet, GRK fasteners which were just sold are made in Canada. They are expensive but many contractors like the fasteners. Manufacturing will never be on the scale of the Post WWII decades but it does not have to be solely in Asia. I ask why does Apple keep $$ in Ireland? Tax structure, Capital gains needs to be redefined. Streamline taxes. Lastly education is great. My daughters were lucky and landed tech jobs near Boston. Yet there are many who work in grocery stores and live at home with astronomical debt with the promise education is the answer. It needs to be redefined. Jobs created in this country are important to that generation. The Hilary Campaign has itself to blame not Trump for losing the Presidency. The Middle Class is fed up with idealism at it's expense. I don't believe in the trickle down theory but I also don't believe one can spend itself into prosperity. What did Loyd Benson say about spending? All good points, Isla...as always. Who to thank for job growth is always a point of contention. So either we say presidential policy does affect job growth or it doesnt. Unfortunately too many people want to have it both ways on this. They were blasting Obama when he took office at the height of the recession and job losses were approaching 800k a month and then saying he had nothing to do with the eventual 15 mill job gains during his presidency. That has always pissed me off. I don't begrudge Reagan or any other president when it comes to this and expect people to be consistent with their reasoning as well....I know, probably too much to ask lol. I agree with you about manufacturing to a point as well. I never proposed eliminating the sector altogether. My point is that, as you point out, its time has come and gone. This transition has left many behind but this is not the first time in history that economies adjust. So railing about jobs in a bygone industry like it is some magic bullet that will cure all ails is just short sighted in my opinion. The real problem here is not that manufacturing is no longer relevant, it is because there is no real direction as to what to focus on about what comes next. This lack of foresight has been the biggest casualty in a grid-locked federal government where they would rather infringe on the rights of women over their own personal health choices, or ramble about "teh gays" or be angry that we all don't say the lords prayer in kindergarten in the morning than come up with a solid long term and rational economic strategic plan. It has become theatre....performance art. And we have bought in to that concept, even electing a reality tv show star to lead. So Americans deport "brown people" making almost nothing in wages working on farms in the SW and that is going to bring back millions of jobs to underemployed white working class men in the rust belt? lol Are you or any of your friends (or any of my relatives still remaining in NH) who are underemployed seriously going to uproot your family and move to Arizona to pick crops for minimum wage? I seriously doubt that The way I see it, people are legitimately angry and confused and wanted an over the top spokesperson that gives them answers they want to hear. And they took that chance even though they have no idea about anything he will really do to actually improve their lives. It's not just lettuce pickers. 35% of construction workers are immigrants and there are similar stat across almost all trades. I worked in kitchens for five years when I was a kid and found myself in an atmosphere surrounded by docile illegals working for nickels. My father paid his paving crew more in the 80s than those laborers make now. Immigration can be positive, but blue collar workers have been crushed by it. We need to go after the companies that employ them with Draconian punishments, especially ones that use the temp agency loophole.
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Post by badhabitude on Nov 12, 2016 16:51:24 GMT
It's not just lettuce pickers. 35% of construction workers are immigrants and there are similar stat across almost all trades. I worked in kitchens for five years when I was a kid and found myself in an atmosphere surrounded by docile illegals working for nickels. My father paid his paving crew more in the 80s than those laborers make now. Immigration can be positive, but blue collar workers have been crushed by it. We need to go after the companies that employ them with Draconian punishments, especially ones that use the temp agency loophole. I agree. Anecdote. I knew of someone who came here on a visitor's visa from Poland, and instead of visiting with the people she said she was going to she went to work as a nanny instead. It pissed me off as she was fucking over the person who sponsored her. So I called immigration and blew the whistle. The immigration office blasted me, can you prove this? what evidence do you have? and so on. I said the facts were I knew she was here on a visitor visa and working, basically they told me to go fuck off. That was when George Bush 1 was in the white house. Or - if you need those people for picking fruit or whatever, make sure the temporary work visa laws are enforced.
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Post by badhabitude on Nov 12, 2016 17:26:32 GMT
Please no Rudy or Christie or Bolton or other members of the rogue's gallery in the white house, including Bannon. I would call Bannon further right than Michael Moore is left.
Bannon has had a deer in the headlights look ever since the win, it's as if he is in a constant state of realization that its so much easier to bitch and invent stuff about the left than it is to run a country.
Pence instead of Christie is a move in the right direction, even though Pence is further to the right than Christie.
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