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Post by bookboy007 on Aug 1, 2022 13:23:41 GMT
Whatever happened to his daughter, Mira? It's like she's dropped out of sight. She pushed back against Weinstein and got black listed. Wasn’t there also something about her association with Woody Allen?
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Post by sandogbrewin on Aug 1, 2022 13:57:27 GMT
And an Olympic gold medal plus two NCAA championships. All three with KC Jones whom he also won NBA titles. Greatest team sport player, major pro sports, ever. Bob Ryan got that one right.
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Post by sandogbrewin on Aug 1, 2022 13:59:33 GMT
She pushed back against Weinstein and got black listed. Wasn’t there also something about her association with Woody Allen? Won an academy in one if his movies. Then several years later backed Mia Farrows accusations on Woody.
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Post by 50belowzero on Aug 1, 2022 14:07:51 GMT
And an Olympic gold medal plus two NCAA championships. All three with KC Jones whom he also won NBA titles. Greatest team sport player, major pro sports, ever. Bob Ryan got that one right. Yep, all his teams did was win.
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Post by RichHillOntario on Aug 1, 2022 15:02:38 GMT
Whatever happened to his daughter, Mira? It's like she's dropped out of sight. She pushed back against Weinstein and got black listed. Man, there are some long grudges in that industry. He's been publically proven to be a douchebag.
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Post by RichHillOntario on Aug 1, 2022 15:15:10 GMT
And an Olympic gold medal plus two NCAA championships. All three with KC Jones whom he also won NBA titles. Greatest team sport player, major pro sports, ever. Bob Ryan got that one right. Yep, all his teams did was win. I don't see an athlete's greatness diminished having never won a championship. Dan Marino, Marcel Dionne, Barry Sanders, Yaz, Iverson, all brilliant and to me are no less stellar for having not any titles.
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Post by bookboy007 on Aug 1, 2022 18:03:58 GMT
Yep, all his teams did was win. I don't see an athlete's greatness diminished having never won a championship. Dan Marino, Marcel Dionne, Barry Sanders, Yaz, Iverson, all brilliant and to me are no less stellar for having not any titles. Some of the most amazing players in playoff games have had to watch as teammates blew it. Over and over. Crazy efforts in a losing cause is a great listicle waiting to be written.
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Post by bookboy007 on Aug 1, 2022 21:05:45 GMT
I don't see an athlete's greatness diminished having never won a championship. Dan Marino, Marcel Dionne, Barry Sanders, Yaz, Iverson, all brilliant and to me are no less stellar for having not any titles. Some of the most amazing players in playoff games have had to watch as teammates blew it. Over and over. Crazy efforts in a losing cause is a great listicle waiting to be written. Anyone with suggestions/nominations for greats without rings where there’s an example that makes the case? Like Barkley in 1993 with the Suns. Game 2 he goes head to head with Jordan and they both put up 42 points. Barkley leads the game in boards, and shoots .615 from the field, but the Suns still lose two straight at home. They manage to win game three in Chicago and Barkley puts up 23 and 19. Chicago takes game 5 but it’s close the whole way - Bulls with a 4 point lead after the first quarter but every other Q was a difference on one or two points either way. Chuck has a triple double with 32-12-10. They win game five in Chicago with a quitter game from Barkley and then lose at home for the third time when Barkley has a bad night shooting but still takes down 17 boards and gets to the line 10 times. One point loss. Very tight series against the legendary Bulls with KJ and Majerle as Barkley’s key teammates. Not close to the Bulls talent overall, but Barkley almost willed them to win it. Junior. 1995 ALDS vs the Stankers. 23 AB, 5Hr, hit close to 400 in that series and carried Seattle. Couldn’t repeat the magic against Cleveland, but still hit .333 with an Hr, 2 doubles and 2 steals. Put the Mariners on his shoulders.
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Post by sandogbrewin on Aug 1, 2022 21:24:04 GMT
Yep, all his teams did was win. I don't see an athlete's greatness diminished having never won a championship. Dan Marino, Marcel Dionne, Barry Sanders, Yaz, Iverson, all brilliant and to me are no less stellar for having not any titles. Those players mentioned don’t make any decisions on free agency, drafting or hiring of coaches. Red Auerbach wouldn’t have lit one cigar without Russell. But was a heck of allot better than the GMs. That had Barry Sanders, Yaz and Marino. Imagine Marino with the Niners ? Or Sanders on the Steelers ?
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Post by bookboy007 on Aug 2, 2022 19:42:19 GMT
I don't see an athlete's greatness diminished having never won a championship. Dan Marino, Marcel Dionne, Barry Sanders, Yaz, Iverson, all brilliant and to me are no less stellar for having not any titles. Those players mentioned don’t make any decisions on free agency, drafting or hiring of coaches. Red Auerbach wouldn’t have lit one cigar without Russell. But was a heck of allot better than the GMs. That had Barry Sanders, Yaz and Marino. Imagine Marino with the Niners ? Or Sanders on the Steelers ? I find those thought experiments very interesting. Montana and Young vs. Marino is really tricky because I find it really hard to envision Marino playing West Coach offense. He had such a beautiful deep ball, and that 17 yard corner route on a rope, so it's easy to forget how many passes he flipped to Tony Nathan. But if I'm thinking about what would have changed...I don't know...I think the common interpretation now is that the Fish were victims of their own success and if they had run the football more effectively during Marino's prime, he might have that ring but fewer stats to show. The D fell apart, too, after the early 80s. But I think you can look at the Denver teams that lost in the Bowl vs the Denver teams that won and get a sense of how having Marino on a more balanced team might have played out. Sanders ... yeah, so hard to know. On the one hand, he was such an all or nothing type of runner where he could stay alive and give up a little ground for so long, but if you could keep him contained, you'd get a lot of situations where the QB would have to make a play - a play Rodney Faate never did. But boy...put Barry with the Niners in place of Roger Craig? I always thought he would have been great with a Rich Gannon type, too - a point guard type of QB rather than a gunslinger. Hitters...I think it's pretty much impossible to blame the greatest hitters for anything if they don't have pitching. Yaz, Ichiro, Junior, Gwynn, Carew, Banks, Williams, McCovey...anyone think any of these guys wasn't great just because he never had the chance to do like every high priced UFA these days and go to the Dodgers or the Yankees to get that ring? Or maybe now the Pads?
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Post by bookboy007 on Aug 2, 2022 20:07:27 GMT
I don't see an athlete's greatness diminished having never won a championship. Dan Marino, Marcel Dionne, Barry Sanders, Yaz, Iverson, all brilliant and to me are no less stellar for having not any titles. Those players mentioned don’t make any decisions on free agency, drafting or hiring of coaches. Red Auerbach wouldn’t have lit one cigar without Russell. But was a heck of allot better than the GMs. That had Barry Sanders, Yaz and Marino. Imagine Marino with the Niners ? Or Sanders on the Steelers ? The Jerry West interview comes in here, too. West won one title in 1972 and lost to the Celtics 7 times in the Finals, and an 8th time to the Knicks in the Willis Reed game. 4 of those losses came down to a game 7. Imagine being one of the best players in the game, playing on one of the best teams of the generation, and losing 4 game 7s, and two game 6s on your way? How many titles could West have won in another era?
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Post by sandogbrewin on Aug 2, 2022 21:54:14 GMT
Those players mentioned don’t make any decisions on free agency, drafting or hiring of coaches. Red Auerbach wouldn’t have lit one cigar without Russell. But was a heck of allot better than the GMs. That had Barry Sanders, Yaz and Marino. Imagine Marino with the Niners ? Or Sanders on the Steelers ? The Jerry West interview comes in here, too. West won one title in 1972 and lost to the Celtics 7 times in the Finals, and an 8th time to the Knicks in the Willis Reed game. 4 of those losses came down to a game 7. Imagine being one of the best players in the game, playing on one of the best teams of the generation, and losing 4 game 7s, and two game 6s on your way? How many titles could West have won in another era? Yup West was going Elgin Baylor into retirement. He had enough but decided to hang on with Russell retiring. And wella West gets a title with the Big Dipper.
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Post by sandogbrewin on Aug 2, 2022 22:12:19 GMT
Those players mentioned don’t make any decisions on free agency, drafting or hiring of coaches. Red Auerbach wouldn’t have lit one cigar without Russell. But was a heck of allot better than the GMs. That had Barry Sanders, Yaz and Marino. Imagine Marino with the Niners ? Or Sanders on the Steelers ? I find those thought experiments very interesting. Montana and Young vs. Marino is really tricky because I find it really hard to envision Marino playing West Coach offense. He had such a beautiful deep ball, and that 17 yard corner route on a rope, so it's easy to forget how many passes he flipped to Tony Nathan. But if I'm thinking about what would have changed...I don't know...I think the common interpretation now is that the Fish were victims of their own success and if they had run the football more effectively during Marino's prime, he might have that ring but fewer stats to show. The D fell apart, too, after the early 80s. But I think you can look at the Denver teams that lost in the Bowl vs the Denver teams that won and get a sense of how having Marino on a more balanced team might have played out. Sanders ... yeah, so hard to know. On the one hand, he was such an all or nothing type of runner where he could stay alive and give up a little ground for so long, but if you could keep him contained, you'd get a lot of situations where the QB would have to make a play - a play Rodney Faate never did. But boy...put Barry with the Niners in place of Roger Craig? I always thought he would have been great with a Rich Gannon type, too - a point guard type of QB rather than a gunslinger. Hitters...I think it's pretty much impossible to blame the greatest hitters for anything if they don't have pitching. Yaz, Ichiro, Junior, Gwynn, Carew, Banks, Williams, McCovey...anyone think any of these guys wasn't great just because he never had the chance to do like every high priced UFA these days and go to the Dodgers or the Yankees to get that ring? Or maybe now the Pads? Deirdorf, who could drive me nuts, but one night on MNF, Dan came through on Marino. He said “Marino with a run game is not fair”. Marino never could sell the run play action in his career cause he never had an offensive line nor Thurman Thomas nor a Emmit Smith to hand off. None of the defenses had any respect for the Phins run game ever. I agree that Marino and Walsh probably wouldn’t have gelled. Marino did what he wanted and Walsh almost traded for Elway at the 83’ draft. The cowboys of the early to mid-90s had one of the best offensive lines in history. There is just no doubt in my mind that if you put Sanders behind that offensive line or lets say the Bronco offensive line that Anthony Davis ran behind, that Barry would have blown by the all-time rushing record. Where people end up at drafts have huge consequences. Waymon Tisdale was unstoppable and Jordan said the boomer sooner was better than him at the time during the 84’ Olympics. That team beat NBA teams during exhibition before the Olympics started. But Tisdale got drafted, at that time, pre Donny Brown and Larry Bird, Pacers. Didn’t get recognized till he went to Phoenix.
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Post by bookboy007 on Aug 3, 2022 12:46:13 GMT
I find those thought experiments very interesting. Montana and Young vs. Marino is really tricky because I find it really hard to envision Marino playing West Coach offense. He had such a beautiful deep ball, and that 17 yard corner route on a rope, so it's easy to forget how many passes he flipped to Tony Nathan. But if I'm thinking about what would have changed...I don't know...I think the common interpretation now is that the Fish were victims of their own success and if they had run the football more effectively during Marino's prime, he might have that ring but fewer stats to show. The D fell apart, too, after the early 80s. But I think you can look at the Denver teams that lost in the Bowl vs the Denver teams that won and get a sense of how having Marino on a more balanced team might have played out. Sanders ... yeah, so hard to know. On the one hand, he was such an all or nothing type of runner where he could stay alive and give up a little ground for so long, but if you could keep him contained, you'd get a lot of situations where the QB would have to make a play - a play Rodney Faate never did. But boy...put Barry with the Niners in place of Roger Craig? I always thought he would have been great with a Rich Gannon type, too - a point guard type of QB rather than a gunslinger. Hitters...I think it's pretty much impossible to blame the greatest hitters for anything if they don't have pitching. Yaz, Ichiro, Junior, Gwynn, Carew, Banks, Williams, McCovey...anyone think any of these guys wasn't great just because he never had the chance to do like every high priced UFA these days and go to the Dodgers or the Yankees to get that ring? Or maybe now the Pads? Deirdorf, who could drive me nuts, but one night on MNF, Dan came through on Marino. He said “Marino with a run game is not fair”. Marino never could sell the run play action in his career cause he never had an offensive line nor Thurman Thomas nor a Emmit Smith to hand off. None of the defenses had any respect for the Phins run game ever. I agree that Marino and Walsh probably wouldn’t have gelled. Marino did what he wanted and Walsh almost traded for Elway at the 83’ draft. The cowboys of the early to mid-90s had one of the best offensive lines in history. There is just no doubt in my mind that if you put Sanders behind that offensive line or lets say the Bronco offensive line that Anthony Davis ran behind, that Barry would have blown by the all-time rushing record. Where people end up at drafts have huge consequences. Waymon Tisdale was unstoppable and Jordan said the boomer sooner was better than him at the time during the 84’ Olympics. That team beat NBA teams during exhibition before the Olympics started. But Tisdale got drafted, at that time, pre Donny Brown and Larry Bird, Pacers. Didn’t get recognized till he went to Phoenix. Terrell. The thing with Barry is that where he was special was making his own lanes. I don’t know that a better line was the issue for his Lions teams to go deeper. I think the rest of the offense just stunk - kind of the negative image of Marino. His 1800+ yard season, he had Scott Mitchell playing QB and Herman Moore was their only receiver. I guess Perriman was OK. Imagine if defenses had to respect the pass so they couldn’t crowd the box and contain? I think that would be bigger than just a great line because if you crowd five linemen with 8 defenders, there’s only so much the line can do.
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Post by 50belowzero on Aug 3, 2022 21:41:01 GMT
Yep, all his teams did was win. I don't see an athlete's greatness diminished having never won a championship. Dan Marino, Marcel Dionne, Barry Sanders, Yaz, Iverson, all brilliant and to me are no less stellar for having not any titles. I don't either as there have been many all time greats in the NHL alone that have never been on a Stanley Cup winning team, yet Patrick Maroon has been on three. I do think though if you asked any of the greats that you just listed if they would give up any of their personal achievements for a Championship i think they all would, it's what defines a winner, which is why they all play.
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Post by 50belowzero on Aug 3, 2022 21:43:48 GMT
The incomparable Vin Scully has passed away at 94 yrs, called some all time great moments in MLB history, Don Larsen's WS perfect game, Hank Aaron's home run record dinger and of course Kirk Gibson's pinch hit walk off homer in the WS to name a few.
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Post by sandogbrewin on Aug 4, 2022 12:23:17 GMT
"If you have a Sombrero throw it in the air!" ~ Vin Scully after Fernando Valenzuela threw his perfect game. Not sure you could ad lib that anu better.
Jim Murray wrote an article about Vin Scully in the Los Angeles times years ago. Calling him the greatest Dodger ever. Went door to door selling tickets.
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Post by bookboy007 on Aug 4, 2022 21:11:56 GMT
"If you have a Sombrero throw it in the air!" ~ Vin Scully after Fernando Valenzuela threw his perfect game. Not sure you could ad lib that anu better. Jim Murray wrote an article about Vin Scully in the Los Angeles times years ago. Calling him the greatest Dodger ever. Went door to door selling tickets. The best call in my lifetime.
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Post by ialwayslikedmarcotte on Aug 7, 2022 18:16:45 GMT
"If you have a Sombrero throw it in the air!" ~ Vin Scully after Fernando Valenzuela threw his perfect game. Not sure you could ad lib that anu better. Jim Murray wrote an article about Vin Scully in the Los Angeles times years ago. Calling him the greatest Dodger ever. Went door to door selling tickets. If you said that today, you'd be canceled.
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Post by sandogbrewin on Aug 8, 2022 21:23:42 GMT
Battled breast cancer for 30 years.
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Post by bookboy007 on Aug 9, 2022 11:09:46 GMT
Battled breast cancer for 30 years. Plenty of outpourings of respect from place you might not expect.
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Post by ialwayslikedmarcotte on Aug 11, 2022 1:54:28 GMT
Battled breast cancer for 30 years. Plenty of outpourings of respect from place you might not expect. If you're my age, you couldn't help but feel some sadness. She owned a huge part of the 70s.
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Post by kelvana33 on Aug 11, 2022 14:24:28 GMT
The incomparable Vin Scully has passed away at 94 yrs, called some all time great moments in MLB history, Don Larsen's WS perfect game, Hank Aaron's home run record dinger and of course Kirk Gibson's pinch hit walk off homer in the WS to name a few. Vin Scully was one of a kind. Best radio voice ever and awesome on TV. Us people over 40 were spoiled with the play by play guys we grew up with.
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Post by 50belowzero on Aug 11, 2022 21:04:34 GMT
The incomparable Vin Scully has passed away at 94 yrs, called some all time great moments in MLB history, Don Larsen's WS perfect game, Hank Aaron's home run record dinger and of course Kirk Gibson's pinch hit walk off homer in the WS to name a few. Vin Scully was one of a kind. Best radio voice ever and awesome on TV. Us people over 40 were spoiled with the play by play guys we grew up with. Yep, this story from Bob Costas tells all you need to know about how Vin Scully called a game, magical..
Here’s Costas:
“Somewhere around 1994, ’95, I was interviewing Ray Charles for an NBC news magazine and probably spent a couple of hours talking with him. … Then, when we’re done and the cameras had been turned off, he says to me, ‘You know who I would really like to meet?’ And I’m thinking, ‘He’s Ray Charles. He could have met just about anybody he’d wanted to have met throughout the course of his life. Who might it be?’ … ‘Vin Scully.’ And I say, ‘Why?’ And he says, ‘Well, because I love baseball. But you have to understand, to me the picture means nothing. It’s all the sound. And Vin Scully’s broadcasts are almost musical, so I enjoy baseball so much more listening to him.’ … So I set it up with Vin and took Ray to Dodger Stadium. I was sitting across from Ray, and there was an empty seat awaiting Vin’s arrival, and Vin came walking through the door wearing — as I remember — a royal blue jacket, the way he is always turned out for a baseball broadcast. And as he walked toward Charles, he said, ‘Ray, my name is Vin Scully, and it’s a pleasure to meet you.’ He might as well have said, ‘A pleasant good evening to you wherever you may be,’ because that’s how it struck Ray. And then they sat down, and we had a combination baseball and music discussion. Vin had a nice experience. And Ray Charles — and I mean this sincerely — he’s Ray freaking Charles — I believe he had one of the great experiences of his life.”
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Post by bookboy007 on Aug 15, 2022 21:40:17 GMT
Vin Scully was one of a kind. Best radio voice ever and awesome on TV. Us people over 40 were spoiled with the play by play guys we grew up with. Yep, this story from Bob Costas tells all you need to know about how Vin Scully called a game, magical..
Here’s Costas:
“Somewhere around 1994, ’95, I was interviewing Ray Charles for an NBC news magazine and probably spent a couple of hours talking with him. … Then, when we’re done and the cameras had been turned off, he says to me, ‘You know who I would really like to meet?’ And I’m thinking, ‘He’s Ray Charles. He could have met just about anybody he’d wanted to have met throughout the course of his life. Who might it be?’ … ‘Vin Scully.’ And I say, ‘Why?’ And he says, ‘Well, because I love baseball. But you have to understand, to me the picture means nothing. It’s all the sound. And Vin Scully’s broadcasts are almost musical, so I enjoy baseball so much more listening to him.’ … So I set it up with Vin and took Ray to Dodger Stadium. I was sitting across from Ray, and there was an empty seat awaiting Vin’s arrival, and Vin came walking through the door wearing — as I remember — a royal blue jacket, the way he is always turned out for a baseball broadcast. And as he walked toward Charles, he said, ‘Ray, my name is Vin Scully, and it’s a pleasure to meet you.’ He might as well have said, ‘A pleasant good evening to you wherever you may be,’ because that’s how it struck Ray. And then they sat down, and we had a combination baseball and music discussion. Vin had a nice experience. And Ray Charles — and I mean this sincerely — he’s Ray freaking Charles — I believe he had one of the great experiences of his life.”
That's a great story.
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